Give Hagia Sophia back to Christianity?

[Kambojaric]

Kosovo and Nikopolis happened some 60 years before the attack on Constantinople and Varna 9 years earlier but that battle only managed to knock out a response from the Hungarian Kingdom,not the West.Let's not forget that even the Ottoman Empire had its troubles at the beginning of the 15th century following its defeat at Ankara at the hand of Timur but recovered some 40 years later.

No help arrived from westerners because they were envolved in their petty wars and arguements not because they were crippled military by the ottomans earlier.Remember that in the beginning of the 16th century while ottomans were dismantling one of the last powerful bulwarks of Christendom in Central/Eastern Europe,the Hungarian kingdom,the westerners were still busy fighting between themselves in the Italian Wars.Western Europe or as a fact whole Europe just wasn't united under a Christian banner like so many like to believe nowadays,there were petty kings,dukes,counts who constantly fought amongst themselves .

True the list of reasons why Constantinople fell to the Ottomans would be a long one indeed with one definitely being that Europe was in total discord at the time and hence was not in a condition to send much assistance to the Byzantines. However what I was trying to point out and I guess failed to show in my previous post was that following the before mentioned battles the Ottomans had established themselves as a power not only in Anatolia but also the Balkans thus encircling Constantinople on all sides and preventing closer potential allies like Bulgaria and Serbia from assisting the Byzantines.

well ok,but the city today is filled with pilsner boards and all grocery shops serve alcohol.

Nothing suggests that it has remained a divine conquest forget about being Islamic.

The Serbs were Vassals of the sultan,what is little Kosovo going to do?

The talk here is about the Vatican,that would make it a crusade.

But it is not.

That is the modern Turks own choice. The fact remains that in whichever part of Istanbul you go, you are more than likely to see a minaret of a mosque and hear the azan five times a day. As far as alcohol consumption is concerned, it has and is consumed in pretty much every Muslim state whether it be in open or behind the curtain. It doesnt change the fact that Istanbul is a city in which most people identify themselves as Muslims within a secular muslim majority country. That is enough for Muslims from other countries not to consider the city "lost" or less holy in some way.
Im not sure I understand the second part of your post about Kosovo and the Vatican?

Because the head of Turkish football federation is a retard who don't know nothing about football but just a son of a rich businessman who is also close to erdoğan and AKP. Now they had to beg Terim to coach galatasaray and National team at the same time.

Shame really. Lets hope the old glory days of the Turkish national team return soon. Was a big fan of Hakan Sukur in my early teens.

 

[Pakistani E]

Turkey is almost in the West,they have more in common with the Europeans that you lot.

I agree that it is a well fortified defence but then,unlike a siege in Rajasthan in the desert with no food or water,the mighty sultan is sieging the fort and it is not even a crusade,an the vatican is not involved.

Not to forget that even the great orthodox Serb Troops fought against the Romans.

My question is,either call it a battle between ottoman rulers and the last roman emperor but if u want it call it a great mighty jehad with mujaheddin from Bengal(LOL) etc,it is a myth.

I see many Pakistanis talking about Turkey's conquests as if they themselves are Turks.

I just want to point out the reality here.

What do you mean turkey has more in common with Europeans than "you" lot? No where in my comments have I implied I'm remotely Turkish or claim any pride in this conquest. You are confusing me with someone else.

I don't care about the siege in rajasthan, we are talking about Constantinople, why are you brining up random sieges?

Yes serb troops for ottomans in numerous battles.

I didn't say anywhere that any Bengali mujahedeen were involved. Seriously you are confused.

Pakistanis can talk about Turkey's conquests because, first of all, Turks have had a direct influence on the nation and areas of what is now Pakistan. Some people in Pakistan do have turk ancestry. And Turkey and Pakistan enjoy close brotherly relations due to mutual religious and political understandings. Why are you getting jealous?

 

[flamer84]

True the list of reasons why Constantinople fell to the Ottomans would be a long one indeed with one definitely being that Europe was in total discord at the time and hence was not in a condition to send much assistance to the Byzantines. However what I was trying to point out and I guess failed to show in my previous post was that following the before mentioned battles the Ottomans had established themselves as a power not only in Anatolia but also the Balkans thus encircling Constantinople on all sides and preventing closer potential allies like Bulgaria and Serbia from assisting the Byzantines.

+1 Agree on all acounts.I think that the ottomans could have besieged Constantinople in the end of the 13th century/beginning of the 14th but,as opposed to the arabs they've played it safe by first dismantling Byzantium's immediate neighbours which could have posed a danger,the decaying Bulgarian Tsarat and most importantly the powerful emerging Serbian Empire.Ofcourse the threat of western intervention remained but the west was far way as opposed to the immediate neigbours.

The arabs didn't do this,they went straight for Constantinople in 718 disregarding other threats only to be surprised by a virulent unexpected bulgarian attack which came to aid the city.The arabs were defeated,so,yes the turks worked brilliantly completing the puzzle piece by piece with no room for error.

 

[bronxbull]

I'm not disagreeing with you that Constantinople in 1453 was a shadow of its former self, I was merely pointing out that it was still defendable. I don't look at these types of things to take pride out of them or big up my ego. I just look at them from a historical point of view. It was indeed a momentous occasion for the ottomans. One of the great ancient powers had been destroyed, the home of the eastern church had been taken, thanks in part to their catholic brethren who left them at the mercy of the ottomans. I'm just disagreeing with the poster who claimed the siege was a formality, I'd like to see him/her charge across open ground under constant fire to get to the walls, only to be attacked from the defenders inside.

What hogwash is this?

I am not a soldier,now I should ask a soldier or a doctor,can u solve this calculus problem?

 

[Pakistani E]

What hogwash is this?

I am not a soldier,now I should ask a soldier or a doctor,can u solve this calculus problem?

I just wanna know what you're smoking.

 

[bronxbull]

What do you mean turkey has more in common with Europeans than "you" lot? No where in my comments have I implied I'm remotely Turkish or claim any pride in this conquest. You are confusing me with someone else.

I don't care about the siege in rajasthan, we are talking about Constantinople, why are you brining up random sieges?

Yes serb troops for ottomans in numerous battles.

I didn't say anywhere that any Bengali mujahedeen were involved. Seriously you are confused.

Pakistanis can talk about Turkey's conquests because, first of all, Turks have had a direct influence on the nation and areas of what is now Pakistan. Some people in Pakistan do have turk ancestry. And Turkey and Pakistan enjoy close brotherly relations due to mutual religious and political understandings. Why are you getting jealous?

Jealous of what?

U said it was a great siege,I said,what siege was it when everything was to your comfort,numbers,resources etc etc.

The Bengali thing is for asad71.

Turks have influence on Pakistan,good,even Americans do because U guys beg everywhere.

And which Pakistani has Turk ancestry?

From some myth or fable,nothing more.

 

[bronxbull]

I just wanna know what you're smoking.

Don't reply with irrelevant posts,this is not a place for cliches.

 

[Pakistani E]

Jealous of what?

U said it was a great siege,I said,what siege was it when everything was to your comfort,numbers,resources etc etc.

The Bengali thing is for asad71.

Turks have influence on Pakistan,good,even Americans do because U guys beg everywhere.

And which Pakistani has Turk ancestry?

From some myth or fable,nothing more.

Karlugh Turks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This thread was about the hagia Sophia, if you want to make this a mud slinging match between Indians and Pakistanis thn sure let me know and ill start right away. I obviously hit a nerve there when I mentioned Turkey/Pakistan relations. I ask again why are so jealous?

Don't reply with irrelevant posts,this is not a place for cliches.

You're the one who replied with a nonsensical post. Stop trolling. its not even funny.

 

[dabong1]

fitna post, objective is to promote hate and create mischief. pure evil.

If i can explain my train of thought what led me to post this link, maybe you can step back a bit from the accusation of causing "fitna" and "promoting hate and create mischief. pure evil".

I dont know if you have read samuel huntington clash of civilizations but the basic premise is that the islamic-eastern orthodox-confucian(islamic nations-russia-china) will form sort of axis to bring a multipolar world instead of the current EU-US duo.

"The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order explains how the population explosion in Muslim countries and the economic rise of East Asia are changing global politics. These developments challenge Western dominance, promote opposition to supposedly “universal” Western ideals, and intensify intercivilization conflict over such issues as nuclear proliferation, immigration, human rights, and democracy. The Muslim population surge has led to many small wars throughout Eurasia, and the rise of China could lead to a global war of civilizations. Huntington offers a strategy for the West to preserve its unique culture and emphasizes the need for people everywhere to learn to coexist in a complex, multipolar, muliticivilizational world."
The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order: Samuel P. Huntington: 9781451628975: Amazon.com: Books

Zbigniew Brzezinski says in his new foreword to the book, it “has earned a place on the shelf of only about a dozen or so truly enduring works that provide the quintessential insights necessary for a broad understanding of world affairs in our time.”
Now if the snake Brzezinski has this book on is bookshelf, i think it shows what the "west" mentality is when it comes to sino-russian-islamic affairs.....do not let them work together to replace the current duo.

As a consequence of the above i reached a conclusion that as a step to bring the russians closer we give the orthodox church the hagia sophia but i will say that the best comment was the one about sharing it.

 

[bronxbull]

Karlugh Turks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This thread was about the hagia Sophia, if you want to make this a mud slinging match between Indians and Pakistanis thn sure let me know and ill start right away. I obviously hit a nerve there when I mentioned Turkey/Pakistan relations. I ask again why are so jealous?



You're the one who replied with a nonsensical post. Stop trolling. its not even funny.

What random stuff is that?

 

[bronxbull]

If i can explain my train of thought what led me to post this link, maybe you can step back a bit from the accusation of causing "fitna" and "promoting hate and create mischief. pure evil".

I dont know if you have read samuel huntington clash of civilizations but the basic premise is that the islamic-eastern orthodox-confucian(islamic nations-russia-china) will form sort of axis to bring a multipolar world instead of the current EU-US duo.

"The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order explains how the population explosion in Muslim countries and the economic rise of East Asia are changing global politics. These developments challenge Western dominance, promote opposition to supposedly “universal” Western ideals, and intensify intercivilization conflict over such issues as nuclear proliferation, immigration, human rights, and democracy. The Muslim population surge has led to many small wars throughout Eurasia, and the rise of China could lead to a global war of civilizations. Huntington offers a strategy for the West to preserve its unique culture and emphasizes the need for people everywhere to learn to coexist in a complex, multipolar, muliticivilizational world."
The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order: Samuel P. Huntington: 9781451628975: Amazon.com: Books

Zbigniew Brzezinski says in his new foreword to the book, it “has earned a place on the shelf of only about a dozen or so truly enduring works that provide the quintessential insights necessary for a broad understanding of world affairs in our time.”
Now if the snake Brzezinski has this book on is bookshelf, i think it shows what the "west" mentality is when it comes to sino-russian-islamic affairs.....do not let them work together to replace the current duo.

As a consequence of the above i reached a conclusion that as a step to bring the russians closer we give the orthodox church the hagia sophia but i will say that the best comment was the one about sharing it.

We Hindus ll always be around watching the rest fight to death over silly egoes and trivial issues.

 

[dabong1]

We Hindus ll always be around watching the rest fight to death over silly egoes and trivial issues.

He says that the indians will be a 'swing civilizations'...I think that india will be hoping the west wins against islamic-chinese forces as this gets rid of its major enemies and will back the west behind the curtains and hope to do another bangladesh buy coming in on the fight in last couple of weeks and claim victory.
I think it will backfire for the indians and instead they will incur a duel attack.

 

[Pakistani E]

What random stuff is that?

Go away, your trolling is far worse than mine.

 

[-SINAN-]

What random stuff is that?

Karluk Turks are not random stuff but reality.

They are one of the Turkic Tribes.

We, Turkey Turks are from Oghuz Tribe, Karluks are from another tribe. They are still Turkic.

 

[Wright]

He says that the indians will be a 'swing civilizations'...I think that india will be hoping the west wins against islamic-chinese forces as this gets rid of its major enemies and will back the west behind the curtains and hope to do another bangladesh buy coming in on the fight in last couple of weeks and claim victory.
I think it will backfire for the indians and instead they will incur a duel attack.

Muslims and atheist Chinese will unite?