Give Hagia Sophia back to Christianity?

[flamer84]

Successful sieges
Where there is no scope of escape for the defending army.

Many defenders and inhabitants escaped by sea,even the emperor had the chance to go with them but he chose to die on the walls which i think it was the right choice ,he was after all the last emperor of a 1100 years empire( 1450 if you count Byzantium as the legitimate heir to the Roman Empire as many do),it would have been shameful to escape like a rat and live the rest of your life as the duke of some small island.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Individuals can escape. No siege is 100% fullproof. Even units of the 9. Armee did break through the Russian defences and moved from the Berlin kessel to the West. But the fall of Berlin was inevitable.

Many defenders and inhabitants escaped by sea,even the emperor had the chance to go with them but he chose to die on the walls which i think it was the right choice ,he was after all the last emperor of a 1100 years empire( 1450 if you count Byzantium as the legitimate heir to the Roman Empire as many do),it would have been shameful to escape like a rat and live the rest of your life as the duke of some small island.

 

[bronxbull]

So I take it you're an expert in medieval warfare are you? Constantinople had strong defended walls. The walls had been restored, the city well stocked with supplies. This isn't modern warfare where you can blast through stone with heavy artillery and what have you. This is bloody hand to hand combat. trying to get to the gates, trying to destroy the walls, you can relegate it to a formality if you want but anyone who is well versed in medieval warfare understand the importance of this victory.

And Ottoman army probably numbered less than 100k. It's mostly western historians who try to bolster the number of ottomans to try to hide their shame because the can't accept losing to the ottomans.

Turkey is almost in the West,they have more in common with the Europeans that you lot.

I agree that it is a well fortified defence but then,unlike a siege in Rajasthan in the desert with no food or water,the mighty sultan is sieging the fort and it is not even a crusade,an the vatican is not involved.

Not to forget that even the great orthodox Serb Troops fought against the Romans.

My question is,either call it a battle between ottoman rulers and the last roman emperor but if u want it call it a great mighty jehad with mujaheddin from Bengal(LOL) etc,it is a myth.

I see many Pakistanis talking about Turkey's conquests as if they themselves are Turks.

I just want to point out the reality here.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

1.You dont understand or don't want to understand. Bengalee Muslim volunteers had joined Kamal Ataturk and shed blood fighting the Christian armies here in Turkey. Our youth have fought in Palestine, in Afghanistan and even in Kashmir. Its not only our youth but Muslims from all over joining to participate in the Jihad to stand beside fellow Muslims under attack. The victory of Sultan Fatih Mehmet was a victory of all Muslims.

Your youth may have fought in Timbuktu for all I care, tomorrow if I go and join US army would it make sense to generalize that we Indians on a whole are fighting for America. Think Professional think .

2. FYI, that is why Pakistan's nuke has been called the Islamic Bomb. Its not incorrect altogether. Muslims under attack anywhere in the world have a right to seek Pak nuke assistance should such a situation arise.

And yet you had to/chose to ask the kafirs for help when you were brutalized way back in '71. You see how illogical you sound.

Bold........................

 

[Kambojaric]

Turkey is almost in the West,they have more in common with the Europeans that you lot.

I agree that it is a well fortified defence but then,unlike a siege in Rajasthan in the desert with no food or water,the mighty sultan is sieging the fort and it is not even a crusade,an the vatican is not involved.

Not to forget that even the great orthodox Serb Troops fought against the Romans.

My question is,either call it a battle between ottoman rulers and the last roman emperor but if u want it call it a great mighty jehad with mujaheddin from Bengal(LOL) etc,it is a myth.

I see many Pakistanis talking about Turkey's conquests as if they themselves are Turks.

I just want to point out the reality here.

The conquest of Constantinople has special significance for Muslims due to the hadith of the Prophet (PBUH) who stated that the city would be conquered by a Muslim and that he would be a blessed king and his army would be a blessed army (something along those lines). As a non Muslim it is understandable why you fail to understand why other Muslims take pride in the conquest of Sultan Fateh but the city's conquest bears religious significance for many Muslims. Further since the Ottoman Sultans were also Caliphs of the Muslim world , the rest of the Muslim world has a lot of respect for them and their achievements.

With regards to the siege of 1453 il agree that the city was a mere shadow of its former self but it was still defendable had the Catholics sent major assistance. However the Ottomans had at Kosovo, Varna and Nikopolis inflicted terrible losses on potential Byzantine allies and hence ensured that the Byzantines were on their own (barring the Genoese aid). Mehmet Khan then settled things once and for all. Respect to the Byzantine king for the way he chose to die.

_____

@ Turkish members: Why did Turkish FA appoint Terim so late? The man can do wonders, should have been the coach from the start!!

 

[flamer84]

The conquest of Constantinople has special significance for Muslims due to the hadith of the Prophet (PBUH) who stated that the city would be conquered by a Muslim and that he would be a blessed king and his army would be a blessed army (something along those lines). As a non Muslim it is understandable why you fail to understand why other Muslims take pride in the conquest of Sultan Fateh but the city's conquest bears religious significance for many Muslims. Further since the Ottoman Sultans were also Caliphs of the Muslim world , the rest of the Muslim world has a lot of respect for them and their achievements.

With regards to the siege of 1453 il agree that the city was a mere shadow of its former self but it was still defendable had the Catholics sent major assistance. However the Ottomans had at Kosovo, Varna and Nikopolis inflicted terrible losses on potential Byzantine allies and hence ensured that the Byzantines were on their own (barring the Genoese aid) . Mehmet Khan then settled things once and for all. Respect to the Byzantine king for the way he chose to die.

_____

@ Turkish members: Why did Turkish FA appoint Terim so late? The man can do wonders, should have been the coach from the start!!

Kosovo and Nikopolis happened some 60 years before the attack on Constantinople and Varna 9 years earlier but that battle only managed to knock out a response from the Hungarian Kingdom,not the West.Let's not forget that even the Ottoman Empire had its troubles at the beginning of the 15th century following its defeat at Ankara at the hand of Timur but recovered some 40 years later.

No help arrived from westerners because they were envolved in their petty wars and arguements not because they were crippled military by the ottomans earlier.Remember that in the beginning of the 16th century while ottomans were dismantling one of the last powerful bulwarks of Christendom in Central/Eastern Europe,the Hungarian kingdom,the westerners were still busy fighting between themselves in the Italian Wars.Western Europe or as a fact whole Europe just wasn't united under a Christian banner like so many like to believe nowadays,there were petty kings,dukes,counts who constantly fought amongst themselves .

 

[bronxbull]

The conquest of Constantinople has special significance for Muslims due to the hadith of the Prophet (PBUH) who stated that the city would be conquered by a Muslim and that he would be a blessed king and his army would be a blessed army (something along those lines). As a non Muslim it is understandable why you fail to understand why other Muslims take pride in the conquest of Sultan Fateh but the city's conquest bears religious significance for many Muslims. Further since the Ottoman Sultans were also Caliphs of the Muslim world , the rest of the Muslim world has a lot of respect for them and their achievements.

With regards to the siege of 1453 il agree that the city was a mere shadow of its former self but it was still defendable had the Catholics sent major assistance. However the Ottomans had at Kosovo, Varna and Nikopolis inflicted terrible losses on potential Byzantine allies and hence ensured that the Byzantines were on their own (barring the Genoese aid). Mehmet Khan then settled things once and for all. Respect to the Byzantine king for the way he chose to die.

_____

@ Turkish members: Why did Turkish FA appoint Terim so late? The man can do wonders, should have been the coach from the start!!

well ok,but the city today is filled with pilsner boards and all grocery shops serve alcohol.

Nothing suggests that it has remained a divine conquest forget about being Islamic.

The Serbs were Vassals of the sultan,what is little Kosovo going to do?

The talk here is about the Vatican,that would make it a crusade.

But it is not.

 

[Yabgu]

Ottomans had the cannon, which made city walls obsolete.

Yes but even still it had one of the strongest fortified walls in the world, which only after long bombing was destroyed.

 

[Yabgu]

The conquest of Constantinople has special significance for Muslims due to the hadith of the Prophet (PBUH) who stated that the city would be conquered by a Muslim and that he would be a blessed king and his army would be a blessed army (something along those lines). As a non Muslim it is understandable why you fail to understand why other Muslims take pride in the conquest of Sultan Fateh but the city's conquest bears religious significance for many Muslims. Further since the Ottoman Sultans were also Caliphs of the Muslim world , the rest of the Muslim world has a lot of respect for them and their achievements.

With regards to the siege of 1453 il agree that the city was a mere shadow of its former self but it was still defendable had the Catholics sent major assistance. However the Ottomans had at Kosovo, Varna and Nikopolis inflicted terrible losses on potential Byzantine allies and hence ensured that the Byzantines were on their own (barring the Genoese aid). Mehmet Khan then settled things once and for all. Respect to the Byzantine king for the way he chose to die.

_____

@ Turkish members: Why did Turkish FA appoint Terim so late? The man can do wonders, should have been the coach from the start!!

Because the head of Turkish football federation is a retard who don't know nothing about football but just a son of a rich businessman who is also close to erdoğan and AKP. Now they had to beg Terim to coach galatasaray and National team at the same time.

 

[Yabgu]

In Most ottoman wars there was a massive crusade against Ottomans as the holy roman league. Polish, Spanish, Italian hungarian, etc etc all United.

 

[Jackdaws]

Just maintain the status quo - there are enough temples, mosques and churches in the world.

 

[-SINAN-]

yes and we all know how accurate the cannons of the 15th century were.

Behold... The Şahi Cannon:

There were absolutely no wall at that time which can stand a direct hit from this beast.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

Behold... The Şahi Cannon:

There were absolutely no wall at that time which can stand a direct hit from this beast.

The great bombard, my fav weapon in AOE 3

 

[-SINAN-]

its defeat at Ankara at the hand of Timur but recovered some 40 years later.

Ahh, that fvcking Timur.... it's the most heavy blow to Ottoman's in entire Ottoman history. And it come from our kin....

 

[flamer84]

Ahh, that fvcking Timur.... it's the most heavy blow to Ottoman's in entire Ottoman history. And it come from our kin....

Yep,that Timur was a savage ,even for medieval times,making pyramids out of skulls.

Think about it,if after that defeat at Ankara if the ottomans couldn't rebuild Constantinople wouldn't have fallen and all of that because of another muslim power.Meanwhile in Europe,christian spanish fought the french,habsburgs fought french or other germans,english vs french.That's why i always laugh at people who see it only black and white,muslims vs christians,the world doesn't work in such simple terms.