German-led European consortium comes up with a cheaper proposal for its Eurofighter to India

[Abingdonboy]

S@sancho the competition gets beter and better

Awesome awesome awesome !!

This bid means NOTHING, the MoD won't even give it a second look don't thing any different.

 

[sachin@india]

This bid means NOTHING, the MoD won't even give it a second look don't thing any different.

20 billions are beyond our means. we can't afford it. any concession is welcome. let push france to lower the prices.

 

[Sankpal]

This offer will pressurise France to close the deal with indian condition ASAP

 

[Bang Galore]

It has been the deal will be around $16BN USD NOT $20BN USD, this $20BN figure is pure cr@p the Indian media pulled out of their backsides.


Look at all these people trying to derail a procurement that so far has been 100% above board and beyond doubt. Speculation from arm chair general is one thing but when it crosses the line to actual definitive statements proclaiming pure fabrications as fact it is out of order.


@Topic too little too late from EFT, if they cold do this they should have with their original bid before they were found to be the L2 entrant. There is no way the EFT can revise their bid now and be accepted over the Rafale. Just more noise coming from the losers of the MMRCA bid as the Rafale-IAF deal inches closer to completion this year....

This bid means NOTHING, the MoD won't even give it a second look don't thing any different.

This is a news article, not an opinion piece. Unless you have complete knowledge to the contrary, it is safe to say that there might be something to the facts as presented. There is little point to argue against everything that is put out. It still might make more sense to go with the Rafale, maybe negotiated down but it would be incredibly brave to suggest that no one cares about a 20000 crore saving. If this report is true on facts, you can see some serious head scratching going on. Also if as reported , former RM AK Antony was not too convinced about the financial costing, that would be a big problem for people even in this government. When you realise that the IAF's capital expenses budged was about 21000 crores, it would be risky if they didn't look at any counter offer offering them a saving of that figure.

One of the first indications that there could be room for a relook at the mega deal came, it is learnt, after German Ambassador to India Michael Steiner met top functionaries of the BJP Government shortly after it took over in June. After getting feelers that the new dispensation was keen to get an independent assessment of the contract value instead of going by the UPA government's agreement, Berlin is believed to have gathered the sup-port of Britain, Spain and Italy, major partners in the consortium, to be able to make a viable counter-offer.

I don't know about your opinion on the price but I have been arguing for quite some time that this was turning out to be a little too expensive. If the facts on pricing mentioned in the report are correct, I would welcome the counter offer. Neither of these two are my favourites on cost benefit analysis but there is simply no way we should overlook a potential 20000 crore saving. We can at the very least beat down the French for a better deal (I believe that the French should get a right to make their own counter offer), there can be logic in throwing away that amount of money.

 

[greatone]

This bid means NOTHING, the MoD won't even give it a second look don't thing any different.

Hold your horses my man!

Supporting one plane over another as a defense enthusiast is fine, but your wild over reactions to any suggestion that Rafale deal is in danger makes me wonder

(a) you are taking it way,waayyy too seriously or
(b) you somehow personally stand to profit from Rafale deal(unlikely but still)

Either way take a chill pill dude.
Not everyone who is questioning viability of Rafale deal, including me has a sinister agenda.

BTW looking at your sig you seem way too interested in what India wants to buy for a person who wants to have UK flags.
Pls don't take it as a personal attack, I am just curious to know whats up with you...

 

[Mike_Brando]

I think it will be better for us we our MoD can split the deal into half and give it to both of them.I mean look if we can negotiate the price then there is a chance that we can buy 5 squadrons of both Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoons each i.e. around 210 fighters(1squadron=21 fighters).Plus the price will be around $29 billion which is not something that we can't pay and the IAF has plan to acquire another 63 aircrafts in the future.So why not acquire both of them right now and replenish our dwindling fighter squadrons and retire those old Mig-21 and Mig-27s at the same time.I know the cost is around $8 billions more but in this way we'll make both the parties happy at the same time and will get the ToT of two of the most potent 4++ multi-role aircrafts. @sancho ,@Abingdonboy what's your take in this matter??

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think it will be better for us we our MoD can split the deal into half and give it to both of them.I mean look if we can negotiate the price then there is a chance that we can buy 5 squadrons of both Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoons each i.e. around 210 fighters(1squadron=21 fighters).Plus the price will be around $29 billion which is not something that we can't pay and the IAF has plan to acquire another 63 aircrafts in the future.So why not acquire both of them right now and replenish our dwindling fighter squadrons and retire those old Mig-21 and Mig-27s at the same time.I know the cost is around $8 billions more but in this way we'll make both the parties happy at the same time and will get the ToT of two of the most potent 4++ multi-role aircrafts. @sancho ,@Abingdonboy what's your take in this matter??

The cost of the of the current Rafale deal for 126 birds is around $16BN NOT $20BN firstly.

Anyway, I don't see a split purpose as likely or viable- at a time when the IAF needs to be simplifying its logistics and cutting down on the number of types in service adding not one but TWO entirely new a/c from two very different companies is just asking for a headache. First Rafales will/can be in IAF service within 3 years from now to start addressing the IAF's SQD issues, all in all 126+63 Rafales will do the job nicely.

And forget about keeping both parties happy- that is not something India needs to indulge in.

 

[sancho]

I think it will be better for us we our MoD can split the deal into half and give it to both of them

Splitting means:

- less numbers of each fighter, therefore => higher unit cost => higher total procurement cost (more than we currently discuss for 126 Rafales)
- less fighters => less industrial advantages
- less chances of a licence production because of the low numbers
- higher logistical problems and operational cost for IAF, because of different spares and weapons

 

[Abingdonboy]

Splitting means:

- less numbers of each fighter, therefore => higher unit cost => higher total procurement cost (more than we currently discuss for 126 Rafales)
- less fighters => less industrial advantages
- less chances of a licence production because of the low numbers
- higher logistical problems and operational cost for IAF, because of different spares and weapons

The epitome of a mess....

 

[sancho]

The epitome of a mess....

Yes, that's why the former DM made it clear long ago, that a split won't happen and the new MoD won't change on that matter either. It will be either 126 x Rafales or 126 x EFs.

 

[axisofevil]

The whole bidding and procucement process is crap. Think about it....the winning bid only tells affterwards what their TOT includes not BEFORE! So they can switch, minimize, or do whatever they wish.....and you are screwed.....THANK YOU CONGRESS< SONIA< RAHUL< KASHMIRI CM ABDHULLAH for fuking us over and over again..

 

[Archie]

In my opinion
we are better off ordering just 126 Rafales to begin with
we can always exercise the option for 63 aircrafts in 2022, when Mig21/27 would be completely out of service
With the Indian order, Rafale production will extend to 2025, without Indian order, it will end in 2019, with the delivery of 186 aircrafts to the french

We can use this news to extract a better deal from the french and nothing else

 

[possumlot]

In my opinion
we are better off ordering just 126 Rafales to begin with
we can always exercise the option for 63 aircrafts in 2022, when Mig21/27 would be completely out of service
With the Indian order, Rafale production will extend to 2025, without Indian order, it will end in 2019, with the delivery of 186 aircrafts to the french

We can use this news to extract a better deal from the french and nothing else

The French do not believe in win win. For them its either win-lose or lose-lose.

If they were reasonable, Rafale would have been sold to many other nations in the world by now. They are not flexible beyond a certain point.

 

[帅的一匹]

This bidding has turned into a farce.

 

[possumlot]

This bidding has turned into a farce.

As long as the price keeps going south, we welcome the farce