German Chancellor Angela Merkel's historical China map flap

[Grand Historian]

I have a question to you. perhaps you can answer.

in the book "Vietnam borderless history" I find following historical legend about Zhao Tuo's Nanyue kingdom (only English translation, no Hanji):

(written by Yu Insun)

In 196 bce, after Gao Zu of the Han dynasty had unified China, a Chinese emissary Lu Jia was sent to invest Trieu Da with the King of Nam Viet. When Trieu Da met the emissary, he asked "who is greater, me (Trieu Da) or Gao Zu of the Han?"

When Lu Jia replied that Gao Zu of the Han, who governs a vast empire, is surely the greatest, Trieu Da said, "Had I been born in China would I not be just as great as the Gao Zu?"

Zhao Tuo said he was not born in China, so he could not be Chinese, or am I wrong?

There's a reason why historical books not legends are taken seriously.

From Shiji
Shiji : 列傳 : 南越列傳 - Chinese Text Project

南越王尉佗者，真定人也，姓趙氏。

The King of Nanyue. previously military leader Tuo,hailed from Zhending,bore the surname Zhao.


It is also clearly stated that his ancestral tombs were violated leading to his attacks on Changsha.

 

[EastSea]

There's a reason why historical books not legends are taken seriously.

From Shiji
Shiji : 列傳 : 南越列傳 - Chinese Text Project

南越王尉佗者，真定人也，姓趙氏。

The King of Nanyue. previously military leader Tuo,hailed from Zhending,bore the surname Zhao.


It is also clearly stated that his ancestral tombs were violated leading to his attacks on Changsha.

George Washington is Englishman, he created United States of America. USA is independence state from UK untill now. Zhao Tuo did the same in the past. he created Nan Yue Guo in Canton.

Nan Yue guo ís not Han Guo under rule òf Han Dynasty. íts not related to where he í came from. Zhao Tuo is like George Washington who came from England.

Problem is that Cantonese native people can not defend their Independence from Han Chinese came later from North.

 

[EastSea]

If this is the case we can bring up the Chinese ancestry of the Anterior Ly,Ho,Tran dynasties.
The Manchus had significant Han Chinese admixture even the Emperors Kangxi,Qianlong and Yongzheng had Han mothers,ethnicity was fluid in my previous posts I had shown how the Han Chinese Tong lineage was elevated to Manchu status.

The difference here is that, Manchurian came to rule China when they were foreigner invaders, they enslaving Han Chinese when they were original Manchurian.

Ly, Tran Ho were immigrants, they were refugee. After many generation mixed with Vietnamese, they became Vietnamese and they fought against Chinese Han invaders to protect Independence of Vietnam. Think more before when you could do such not equivalent comparison.

However, the origin ethnicity of Ly, Tran clan is debated in Vietnam. Ho Dynasty is not considered as official Dynasty of Vietnam by our historian, be course Ho Quy Ly taken a power by coupe with illegal trick and politic maneuvers.

Ly Bi is stated in Chinese chronicle that he was Jiao Zhao native people. Tran family clan is Jiao Zhi people, it is stated in "An Nam chi Luoc" by Le Tac (1300 ACE) in the time Tran Dynasty is still existed in power in Vietnam.

 

[EastSea]

Even Ly Bi didn't name his kingdom Viet/Yue he named it Van Xuan/Wan Chun.

Its normal thing here. Van Lang of Hung Kings is not related dirctly to Yue or Viets ( or Vượt in ancient Vietnamese word), in the time of Van Lang Kingdom, there is country of Mon/Khmer speaking people. Li Bi called his Kingdom as Van Xuan, or Van Xoan in ancient Vietnamese word, it got the meaning "country for ever".

In the 5th century, VietKinh people was not separated from Mon/Muong people in langustic, Vietkinh people was called as Keo (Geao) people (Kẻ Chợ) by other neighbor Thai/Katay people, or Jiao Zhi in Chinese.

 

[yue10]

is 越 meaning beyond? if so it will be meaning that Annams used it for signify they are beyond the Chinese realm, i.e not within or relate to Chinese, it got nothing to do with ancient Yue dumbassed Annams never got brain to extrapolated anything, either that or it's the south of yue meanings for yuenan

LOL just LOL @ the peanut brains pseudo intelligents Annams in here but anyways can some Chinese plz translating this for me, whats it meaning for easy understand?
记得那些好, 世界便是好的, 专盯着瑕疵, 钻石也扛不过满身疮痍

 

[EastSea]

is 越 meaning beyond? if so it will be meaning that Annams used it for signify they are beyond the Chinese realm, i.e not within or relate to Chinese, it got nothing to do with ancient Yue dumbassed Annams never got brain to extrapolated anything, either that or it's the south of yue meanings for yuenan

LOL just LOL @ the peanut brains pseudo intelligents Annams in here but anyways can some Chinese plz translating this for me, whats it meaning for easy understand?
记得那些好, 世界便是好的, 专盯着瑕疵, 钻石也扛不过满身疮痍

You are low educated Khmer Krom bro, you do not understand what is the meaning of word Yue in Vietnamese. Yue is came from "Vượt" in Vietnamese word. Han Chinese copied this word from Mon/Khmer/Muong/ people.

Its stranger when your nick is Yue when you do not understand what is the meaning of this word. You said you are Vietnamese and speak Vietnamese.

 

[BoQ77]

The point, Kublai created Mongol Dynasty in link with Mongol Empire stretch from Asia to Europe ...
He and his minority Mongol clan dominated majority of Han people.
He's never change his style, pretend that he's Han people ... Actually, we never can call him as immigrant

Zhao Tuo is the different, he changed his style, even costume into Bai Yue ...
Ly Bi ancestors are immigrants, he himself is similar to Rhee Syng Man - the first president of South Korea ( the immigrant with Vietnamese ancestors - he admit by himself to President Ngo Dinh Diem once ). We never consider South Korean under his rule as a Vietnamese dynasty, right ?

Similar to Schwarzenegger, his child that born in USA could be voted for US president, right ?

Latter Ly Dynasty from 11 century isn't any Chinese origin.

For your information, Zhao Tuo never been considered as official dynasty of Vietnam. He was considered as the invader of An Duong King originated territory.
Trung sisters unrest are the movement of grabbing back the Hung King 's land as Trung sisters originated from lower ranking officials of Hung King.

 

[Edison Chen]

记得那些好, 世界便是好的, 专盯着瑕疵, 钻石也扛不过满身疮痍

I'm curious, where do you find it?

Basically it means keep those good things in your mind, then the world is beautiful. If you only focus on the bad things, even the diamond is full of flaws.

In another word, it means keep an optimistic attitude, so everything will be fine.

 

[BoQ77]

Basically it means keep those good things in your mind, then the world is beautiful. If you only focus on the bad things, even the diamond is full of flaws.

In another word, it means keep an optimistic attitude, so everything will be fine.

Thanks yue10 and edison chen. Better we should create the good things to fade the bad things in the past ...
I'm happy that nowaday China is relative peaceful than China in the past, which keep some world records as the largest quantity of KIA and MIA in a battle ; the longest wartime in the world ... and so on.

 

[Edison Chen]

Thanks yue10 and edison chen. Better we should create the good things to fade the bad things in the past ...
I'm happy that nowaday China is relative peaceful than China in the past, which keep some world records as the largest quantity of KIA and MIA in a battle ; the longest wartime in the world ... and so on.

Agree, if you guys stop making trouble again and again, we will both get relieved and peace.

 

[yue10]

You are low educated Khmer Krom bro, you do not understand what is the meaning of word Yue in Vietnamese. Yue is came from "Vượt" in Vietnamese word. Han Chinese copied this word from Mon/Khmer/Muong/ people.

Its stranger when your nick is Yue when you do not understand what is the meaning of this word. You said you are Vietnamese and speak Vietnamese.

I'm curious, where do you find it?

Basically it means keep those good things in your mind, then the world is beautiful. If you only focus on the bad things, even the diamond is full of flaws.

In another word, it means keep an optimistic attitude, so everything will be fine.

ok, thanks for your help, I try Google translate but could not understand its meaning

it's from wechats

 

[EastSea]

ok, thanks for your help, I try Google translate but could not understand its meaning

it's from wechats

You don't understand what you troll here. study more, Google can not help you. The photo is exactly for you.

Agree, if you guys stop making trouble again and again, we will both get relieved and peace.

China is trouble maker in region with stupid nine dash claim. China have to stop it first.

 

[bolo]

Agree, if you guys stop making trouble again and again, we will both get relieved and peace.

The way of the world is bigger country make the rules, little insignificant countries oblige to the rules or face consequences. There is no compromise because that's how the world work.

 

[Rechoice]

Yes, Vietnam mean "Vượt về Nam" or "Nam Tiến". This word created by Nguyễn Bỉnh Khiêm in the 16th century, when he advised Warloard Nguyễn Hoàng go to Sourhern Đại Việt.

Nguyễn Bỉnh Khiêm (1491 – 1585) is our fortune teller.

This is the Vietnamese equivalent of the Nostradamus quatrains. It is suggestive, believed to predict future events, and very mysterious. This poem includes the line, "Vietnam is being created" (Vietnamese:Việt Nam khởi tổ xây nền), an early use of the word "Vietnam".

So why Ho Chi Minh acepted the name Vietnam for our country 1945.

The way of the world is bigger country make the rules, little insignificant countries oblige to the rules or face consequences. There is no compromise because that's how the world work.

Its animal jungle rule. I don't think chinese people is animal.

as humanbeing, china have to obey rules of international laws, what china has been signed, like UNCLOS. Its how to humankind in the world work for peace.

 

[Grand Historian]

George Washington is Englishman, he created United States of America. USA is independence state from UK untill now. Zhao Tuo did the same in the past. he created Nan Yue Guo in Canton.

Nan Yue guo ís not Han Guo under rule òf Han Dynasty. íts not related to where he í came from. Zhao Tuo is like George Washington who came from England.

Problem is that Cantonese native people can not defend their Independence from Han Chinese came later from North.

Nanyue was a vassal state of Han dynasty furthermore Vietnamese had a separate kingdom Au Lac until Zhao Tuo annexed them.

What I don't understand is why Vietnamese claim Nanyue as Vietnamese not only were the bulk of the population made up of Tai Kadai and Qin Chinese,Zhao Tuo did not even pay homage to the fictitious Hung Kings.

The Cantonese of 2,000 years ago are not the same as the Cantonese of today,for the umpteenth's time Cantonese don't view themeselves as Baiyue and they never will.

The difference here is that, Manchurian came to rule China when they were foreigner invaders, they enslaving Han Chinese when they were original Manchurian.

Ly, Tran Ho were immigrants, they were refugee. After many generation mixed with Vietnamese, they became Vietnamese and they fought against Chinese Han invaders to protect Independence of Vietnam. Think more before when you could do such not equivalent comparison.

However, the origin ethnicity of Ly, Tran clan is debated in Vietnam. Ho Dynasty is not considered as official Dynasty of Vietnam by our historian, be course Ho Quy Ly taken a power by coupe with illegal trick and politic maneuvers.

Ly Bi is stated in Chinese chronicle that he was Jiao Zhao native people. Tran family clan is Jiao Zhi people, it is stated in "An Nam chi Luoc" by Le Tac (1300 ACE) in the time Tran Dynasty is still existed in power in Vietnam.

Stop regurgitating nonsense,the bondservants and slaves of the early Manchus consisted of Han,Koreans and other Jurchens.

Qing expanded in the name of Imperial China look at the treaties,passports even late era currency and you see they use Da Qing as equivalent to Zhong Guo.

I'm not going to requote what I already posted you are hopelessly in denial,funny how you cherrypick your sources when it suits you.

An Nam Chi Luoc doesn't mention the Hung Kings and Van Lang which you hold dear.