Geopolitics of ASEAN+ region

[NiceGuy]

Do you have a link to support what he said?

You can check again on CCTV-4

Chinese TV discusses Vietnam's diplomacy on South China Sea issue

The 5 Aug 2011 edition of CCTV-4 "Focus Today", a 30-minute current affairs program broadcast daily at 1330-1400 gmt, features a discussion on the South China Sea situation following the latest moves by Vietnam and Philippines.

Also have you considered what Malaysia and Indonesia & Singapore's reaction to you passing military ships thru our waters? Any such ships need the permission of the countries it passes otherwise its deemed as a military incursion. Not to mention refueling etc.

It's a waste for you guys to fight against VietNam, we have Shaddock with warhead up to 1,000kg, our ship have longer range anti-ship missile so we will sink your warships before they can lock ours, we have Perfect spy who can steal any secret information, we have 'mud men' who can sneak into any neighbours lands (like sneaking into China's land), destroy and withdraw safely after that. So how can you guy fight against us ??

btw: we only want to retaliate China-US if they threaten us, so you guys'd better to stay Neutral like when we beat up Thailand from 1979 to 1988. ASEAN must be strong enough to stay on their own feet, not begging for protection like you tiny country.

If that's your strategy then I have no argument except its a very large ocean to ambush, firstly its not in our territory and secondly that's the most sensible proposal you have come up with because it actually makes more sense.

Hehe, it's just plan B, and we prefer Plan A in Malacca, and it's not too large and it's our zone, so we know well where should our KILOS ambush

 

[ahfatzia]

I am just beginning to get into the recent history of the region, thanks for bringing this up. I just went through this wiki article:
Sino-Vietnamese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All I can say about the Vietnamese is that for a relative small country, this country and its people show incredible intestinal fortitude or guts. I guess their history with Yuan invasions were also good example.

From my first reading, it looks like China failed to gain its objective to get the Vietnamese to withdraw from Cambodia from this costly war. Was there another motive?

Our troop never leave Laos-Camp, just changed its name from 'VietNam army' to "VN civilian", Comment by a Viet in post#52

2. The Socialist Republic of Vietnam government to withdraw the 60,000 Vietnamese soldiers from Laos. The Vietnamese government's plan to control its neighbouring countries is seen as a violation of Laos' national sovereignty and integrity as a nation.
This plan is believed to be in action as it is currently being carried out by the existing "puppet" Lao party leaders to the Hanoi government as noted in the paper presented at the National Conference in 2007 by Michael Mike, "Vietnam's Tay Tien expansion into Laos and Cambodia" , which outlined the neo-colonizing of Laos.

3/ Abolish the unfair of 25 year Treaty between Vietnam & Laos ( July 18, 1977 )
Article Five: The Two Sides Endeavor to Strengthen Militants, Solidarity Relations & Cooperation
Military, the 25 year Vietnamese - Laotian Treaty of July 18, 1977 allowed more then 500,000 Vietnamese civilians and family of the army to station in Laos. There were more than 100,000 Vietnam troops in December 1988.
In December 1988, the Communist Lao Government announced that all the Vietnam troops had withdrawn from Laos but in fact, there are still more than 60,000 Vietnamese troops in December 1990.
On 11 November 1995 Vietnam signed a new Treaty with Laos to further enhance this arrangement, under the name " Labour Exchange Agreement "

Under the term of Labour Exchange Agreement , Vietnam sent their soldiers to Laos in the disguise of ordinary labourers; these labourers had trucks of their own, in which they kept a wide variety of special weaponry for military action for any eventuality.
EIN presswire - Voice of Laotians Overseas



The reason many ASEAN nations are in China camp because of Vietnam's hegemony. Check the comment and the source above you'll find Vietnam troops never left Laos and Cambodia, that's what I originally though, and the reason is clear that they want to control both countries and perhaps more in time. It's no wonder Thailand also stations many troops on the vital regions of both countries to prevent any further expansions by Vietnam.

Seaward Vietnam is already moving south and occupies 40 island in SCS and given time, after she build up her military, she is in a good position to takeover Malaysia and Singapore, hence the Malacca.

Don't underestimate the ambitions of Vietnam, as many do, because her histories were based on wars and expansions. My country, Singapore, for one welcomes the involvement of China in ASEAN affairs because she's the only one capable of preventing Vietnam's landward expansions. We also welcome the US return to the western Pacific since she's capable of securing the sea lane of this area.

Many people misunderstanding China's geopolitics in this area, partly was her fault because she didn't present her views publicly, but the other ASEAN, aside from Aquino, know what China meant for them. As long as China's around the futures of ASIEAN is bright and without fears of any hegemonic from within. They also know if China does have devious intentions, their combine voices would be strong enough to deter China. Peace.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

He, he. To be cool bro. we are Southern Vietnamese, Việt Thường peoples . We belong to same group of Viêt-Môn-Khmer peoples, as called Bai Yue in China. Ye Lang was ancient country of us.

No you are a brainwashed Khmer my friend.

 

[EastSea]

No you are a brainwashed Khmer my friend.

Viet-Mon-Khmer, we ar in same group of Bai Yue came from Southern China. Lac (Luo) Viet (雒 越, the Kinh, Jingzhu Ethnic in Vietnam an Southern China today) and may be the Au Viet (瓯 越, Khmer today) also known as Western Au (西 瓯 is Mon people in Myanmar today). Lac Viet (Han: 雒 越 or 骆越 or 貉 &#36234 is the name of one of Bai Yue among ethnic Vietnamese are living in Southern China in ancient time.

Following ethnographic Viet-Mon-Khmer we speak different languages but drived from same root, base on study of 100 basic words daily in use.

According to the history of Vietnam, the Vietnamese of the Lac Hong from Dongting Lake region, now part of Hunan Province, China, and living areas spread down to the North and Central region of Vietnam today.

 

[iajj]

first, there is no history or histriography in vietnam; only the central nation gets to name the barbarians on the periphery and also reserves the right to write them off history.

second, if you guys had indeed originated from hunan...that is a heck of a beating you barbarians took from the mighty hans over the past four, five thousand years to be evicted from central china and kicked all the way to the hot, moist, stinky south, which is also infested with bugs and diseases. it is time to accept your inferiority and live with what little we allowed you guys to keep.

 

[NiceGuy]

The reason many ASEAN nations are in China camp because of Vietnam's hegemony. Check the comment and the source above you'll find Vietnam troops never left Laos and Cambodia, that's what I originally though, and the reason is clear that they want to control both countries and perhaps more in time.

Seaward Vietnam is already moving south and occupies 40 island in SCS and given time, after she build up her military, she is in a good position to takeover Malaysia and Singapore, hence the Malacca.

.

Hehe, keep blah blah, no used , you guys want to be a pawns for US-China, so you will be treated as pawns, that's the life, dude.

You can beg for help from UN, but you're just small and unimportant pawns, so no one care about your voice

HRLI requests UN to persuade: The Lao PDR to implement a free and fair and multiparty election
EIN presswire - Voice of Laotians Overseas

It's no wonder Thailand also stations many troops on the vital regions of both countries to prevent any further expansions by Vietnam.

Bcz our troop still stay in Cambodia, so you know who's behind Thai-Camb border conflict already, right?? And Thailand surely don't wanna be burned again. She'd better agree with our plan

Don't underestimate the ambitions of Vietnam, as many do, because her histories were based on wars and expansions. My country, Singapore, for one welcomes the involvement of China in ASEAN affairs because she's the only one capable of preventing Vietnam's landward expansions. We also welcome the US return to the western Pacific since she's capable of securing the sea lane of this area.

Problem is, US wanna boost friendship with VN now, she also willing to sell us her lethal weapon, and she is not stupid to get her own bullets for protecting someone in Malacca, right ??

U.S will soon sell Lethal weapons to Vietnam?
Two senators, particularly Mr. John McCain, has great concern to Viet NamSenator John McCain said the negotiations about Lethal weapon for Vietnam is 'in a positive way'.

Speaking to the BBC in the regional security forum Shangri-La Dialogue, McCain expressed optimism, saying he was pleased that the development of "relations between the U.S. and Vietnam"."It depends on what type of weapon. There're some kinds of weapons that we believe Vietnam does not need"

"But he said some other weapons are" negotiatable" and the two sides are in the process of negotiations."This is the theme that I think is the two countries could resolve in a positive way."

However in the context of having an arms race in the area, and Vietnam became the country buying weapons of type most from Russia, seems like having a shift in this sensitive aspect of the relationship US-Vietnam bilateral.

Defense expert area Andrei Chang, editor of Kanwa defense spending, said:" the embargo of Lethal wepon sell to VietNam is "obsolete"."In the current situation, I think it will be lifted soon.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-soon-sell-weapons-vietnam.html#ixzz1wh0LAlT7

Many people misunderstanding China's geopolitics in this area, partly was her fault because she didn't present her views publicly, but the other ASEAN, aside from Aquino, know what China meant for them. As long as China's around the futures of ASIEAN is bright and without fears of any hegemonic from within. They also know if China does have devious intentions, their combine voices would be strong enough to deter China. Peace.

Hehe, China is too weak to do anything like protecting ASEAN or SCS(east sea), so let just skip her.

 

[EastSea]

first, there is no history or histriography in vietnam; only the central nation gets to name the barbarians on the periphery and also reserves the right to write them off history.

second, if you guys had indeed originated from hunan...that is a heck of a beating you barbarians took from the mighty hans over the past four, five thousand years to be evicted from central china and kicked all the way to the hot, moist, stinky south, which is also infested with bugs and diseases. it is time to accept your inferiority and live with what little we allowed you guys to keep.

Don't say stupidity things, hans was enslaving by Mongolia, Manchus and Japan. As human being, I don't like to hurt Chinese people, but is truth in the past chinese peoples suffered a same inferious fate.
You are 北狄 , northern barbarians: bắc địch: giống mọi phương bắc. we beating you Northern barbarians ran way from Vietnam from 938 year AD.

 

[oct605032048]

A Mogolian minister is visiting ASEAN for the interest of China in SCS.

 

[Anonymous user]

You can check again on CCTV-4

You mentioned it so you have to support it, if you are referring this this quote "PLAN Rear Admiral Yuncheng states simply, "Whoever controls the Strait of Malacca and the Indian Ocean could block China's oil transport route." http://udini.proquest.com/view/chinas-pursuit-of-power-objectives-pqid:2451930571/ no where did he mention Vietnam controlling the straits so unless you prove otherwise you are just full of nonsense as usual

It's a waste for you guys to fight against VietNam, we have Shaddock with warhead up to 1,000kg, our ship have longer range anti-ship missile so we will sink your warships before they can lock ours, we have Perfect spy who can steal any secret information, we have 'mud men' who can sneak into any neighbours lands (like sneaking into China's land), destroy and withdraw safely after that. So how can you guy fight against us ??

So you saying you want to declare war on Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia all at the same time?

btw: we only want to retaliate China-US if they threaten us, so you guys'd better to stay Neutral like when we beat up Thailand from 1979 to 1988. ASEAN must be strong enough to stay on their own feet, not begging for protection like you tiny country.

Hehe, it's just plan B, and we prefer Plan A in Malacca, and it's not too large and it's our zone, so we know well where should our KILOS ambush

Don't talk nonsense, Vietnam foreign reserves are so tiny (25 Billion?) compared to all the neighbors in the region, if you want to spend it all on weapons and leave huge debt please go ahead. Don't beg ASEAN to bail you out after that.

To be honestly I quite sick of your crap, one more nonsensical post from you and I just ignore you, you're leaving a bad impression of Vietnam to all other ASEAN members. Stop Embarrassing us with your ranting!

 

[Korean]

My personal view is that with China's continuous rise

China's rise's is already slowing down and will soon align with everybody else's growth rate.

if US is eventually replaced by China as the world's No. 1 power, only when this new reality looks like a certain outcome, lets say in 10-20 years time frame, will Japan and South Korea defect the US non-NATO alliance team and perhaps join ASEAN to create a more powerful ASEAN+

While economic integration is possible, security integration is not, Japan and Korea see themselves in the Western block opposing China, and will act accordingly.

 

[NiceGuy]

You mentioned it so you have to support it, if you are referring this this quote "PLAN Rear Admiral Yuncheng states simply, "Whoever controls the Strait of Malacca and the Indian Ocean could block China's oil transport route." http://udini.proquest.com/view/chinas-pursuit-of-power-objectives-pqid:2451930571/ no where did he mention Vietnam controlling the straits so unless you prove otherwise you are just full of nonsense as usual

Dude, are you living in 'democratic country' ??what's wrong with your Google ??

Vietnam to be built at the entrance to the Strait of Malacca in the South China Sea submarine ambush zone
Date:2011-09-02

“Kilo” class submarine was known as “ocean black hole”, known as the world’s quietest diesel-electric submarines, surface targets is a hunting weapon. If a Vietnamese naval equipment 6 “Kilo” class submarines, will became one of Southeast Asia’s maritime power. Data for newspaper International Herald Tribune freelance writer from Beijing made the sea, according to Russian media recently revealed that, after Vietnam, Russia said it would sell six “Kilo” class submarines, Russia will revert to the sale of 12 Vietnam modified Su-30MK2 fighters, totaling $ 500 million. With the South China Sea oil and gas wealth to bring the rolling, Vietnam’s military build-climax once again. At the same time, Vietnam’s military strategy in the South China Sea and the battlefield, are quietly engaged in adjustment.
accelerate the purchase of advanced equipment

this end, the Vietnamese Navy to develop a “21st century Navy development plan”, a substantial increase in military spending, the Navy, to allocate funds for the construction and expansion of the Da Nang, Qui Nhon, Nha Trang, Cam Ranh, and several other central and an important naval port and the southern port of military business combination, and in 2007 a large scale for selection within the Navy, “Submarine seedling” for Vietnam to prepare for expansion of the submarine fleet.
strategic channel security threat to the South China Sea

After years of rapid expansion, the total strength of the Navy in Vietnam has reached 50,000 people (including 27,000 Marines people), four were under the jurisdiction of the coastal military, with more than 120 ships of various types of combat vessels, including destroyers, one, five frigates, minesweepers five, six landing ships, two submarines, missiles and various types of PT boats 80 remaining vessels.

adjusted according to the newspaper that a strategic attempt to, once with “a big country,” Yin Nanhai reefs sovereignty and maritime delimitation disputes, large-scale armed conflict at sea, the newspaper such as the north-central South China Sea suffered heavy losses, the Start the south “submarine ambush zone,” block “a big country” route south into the Strait of Malacca. 6 “Kilo” class diesel-electric submarines acquired quiet, that is the heart of Vietnam’s submarine warfare program. Expected around 2012 in 2010, the newspaper will block the Straits of Malacca with the eastern entrance of the local capacity. ( Source: International Herald Tribune )
Vietnam to be built at the entrance to the Strait of Malacca in the South China Sea submarine ambush zone « Military of China, force comment.

2011 年 8 月 5 日 CCTV “Global vision” broadcast “a large arms purchase in Vietnam to improve combat power against whom”, the following is the program Record:

Opinion: 6 636 can block the Straits of Malacca
Yin Zhuote some commentators:
Yes, because the six submarines us that if a division-level formations are, for example, by the Russian establishment, the general conventional submarines 12 is a detachment, probably half a detachment of.
Shui Junyi: half a detachment of.
Yin Cho: It’s about how strong blocking ability? If six submarines are able to war, then probably all of the Malacca Strait can block up front, if a product shaped ambush position, then it is probably obscured in the 400-600 km wide area involved, which basically put the Malacca Strait give sealing, and training in Russia and Vietnam, it’s a very important tactical learning is near the Strait of Malacca, where it has the hydrological data, where the exercise is to set up ambush positions, and the merchant ships of the past ambushes.
Of course, past the merchant is the place in various countries by the Chinese with the Japanese use.
Shui Junyi: The United States also used.
Cheuk Yin : South Korea with the United States also use it to block …
Shui Junyi: You said here, we note that this is also the South China Sea situation of figure, we asked directed us to cut to the big screen look through this chart to see that, if you just like to say, is not it basically means that most of the South China Sea has been in its coverage of the submarine within a?
Yin Zhuo: the coverage of war is certainly able to cover the South China Sea, because of its relatively strong momentum underwater machine it is not AIP system, has a 636 is RM, which has a modification is AIP system, but it is the buying is not, there is no combat capability but also very strong.
about if the increase in overseas oil, then a diesel together with underwater time is about 45 days 45 days all cover the entire South China Sea , and it is six boats, basically half of the sail, three boats are also able to cover the basic, so it should be said that the combat capability of the South China Sea is a great threat
Military experts say the military buildup in Vietnam will lead the South China Sea countries to step up military procurement tide « Military of China, force comment.

So you saying you want to declare war on Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia all at the same time?

Dude, we don't wanna fight with you guys, just stay neutral , pls note that: one nuke capable missile Shaddock is enough to erase your tiny Singapore in few minutes

Don't talk nonsense, Vietnam foreign reserves are so tiny (25 Billion?) compared to all the neighbors in the region, if you want to spend it all on weapons and leave huge debt please go ahead. Don't beg ASEAN to bail you out after that.

get life, dude, our Russia boss has lots of $$$ to build a sub-base for us. Remember we defeated US buy Soviet's weapon too ??

A fly in China's Russian ointment
By M K Bhadrakumar

China would know that climbing the greasy pole of global power politics isn't easy. Rivals play rough. But China couldn't have expected to see Russia among them.

The backdrop is poignant. Russia-China strategic coordination has touched a high level. Beijing has been joyful about the prospect of Vladimir Putin returning to the Kremlin as president in early May after a spell as premier. Beijing sees Putin as the best thing that ever happened to "post-Soviet" Russia. Maybe it was



sheer naivety, or brilliant guile, but China preferred to see Putin as a one-dimensional figure consumed by a hatred of the West. Beijing saw a dark Western conspiracy to discredit him as he reclaimed power in the Kremlin.

Therefore, Russian natural gas company Gazprom's announcement on April 6 that it had signed a deal to take a minority stake in the development of two gas projects off the coast of Vietnam would have a Shakespearean touch about it - Et tu, Brute?

The Gazprom deal was certainly Putin's decision. Gazprom will explore two licensed blocks in the Vietnamese continental shelf in the South China Sea. It takes a 49% stake in the offshore blocks, which hold an estimated 1.9 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and more than 25 million tons of gas condensate.

Beijing is apparently taken aback. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin was guarded in his response: "China hoped companies from countries outside the South China Sea region would respect and support efforts by directly concerned parties in resolving disputes through bilateral negotiations."

Beijing was left guessing as the bear waded into the choppy waters of the South China Sea. True, the two exploration blocks are within Vietnam's waters and for Gazprom it is a lucrative business deal. But Gazprom is a state-owned company and is widely regarded as one of Russia's "geopolitical tools".

Chinese commentaries have signaled that Beijing doubts Moscow's intentions. The Global Times pointed out:
Vietnam and the Philippines are both trying to seek help from countries outside the region, making the bilateral negotiations into a multilateral confrontation. China cannot be too cautious about any other superpower involvement in the South China Sea region. Russia should not send any wrong or ambiguous signals about the South China Sea. It will not only make the dispute even more difficult to settle for China, but also raises doubts about Russia's real intentions behind the gas deal.
Besides, Gazprom's gas deal is not a flash in the pan. Russia is systematically rebuilding its Soviet-era ties with Vietnam (which tapped into shared antipathies toward China), especially since 2009 when Putin told his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Tan Dung that the relationship had assumed "strategic significance".

Moving eastward
Moscow has given an US$8 billion loan for the construction of Vietnam's first nuclear power plant. Russia is Vietnam's most important source of advanced weapon technology. And the weapons systems include the SS-N-25 Switchblade/Kh-35 Uransubsonic anti-ship missile, the Ka-27 naval helicopter, the SU-30 MK multi-role fighter aircraft, upgraded Kilo Class attack submarines, Gepard Class Corvettes, the Molnia/Project 12418 fast attack craft packed with Moskit/SS-N-22 Sunburn supersonic anti-ship missiles, Svetlyak export class patrol boats (originally developed for the KGB's border guards) equipped with anti-aircraft missiles, and so on - all of which help boost Vietnam's capability to defy China.

Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov has promised Moscow's help for Vietnam to build a submarine base for its Kilos, a loan to help Hanoi buy rescue and auxiliary vessels from Russia and planes for Vietnam's navy as well as build a ship repair yard that will also service visiting Russian navy ships.

Moscow hopes to regain access to its Soviet-era military base in Camh Ran Bay. An editorial in the Chinese daily The Global Times last week said:
All the cooperation ... goes beyond economic interests and is chiefly related to political and security concerns.
Asia Times Online :: China News, China Business News, Taiwan and Hong Kong News and Business.

To be honestly I quite sick of your crap, one more nonsensical post from you and I just ignore you, you're leaving a bad impression of Vietnam to all other ASEAN members. Stop Embarrassing us with your ranting!

Hehe, bcz you're Chinese-Singaporian , so of course you wanna you China mommy to protect you, but you'd better to learn lesson from Chinese-thailand in Camb-Thai border conflct now before getting angry with us

 

[NiceGuy]

double post....!

 

[iajj]

Don't say stupidity things, hans was enslaving by Mongolia, Manchus and Japan. As human being, I don't like to hurt Chinese people, but is truth in the past chinese peoples suffered a same inferious fate.
You are 北狄 , northern barbarians: bắc địch: giống mọi phương bắc. we beating you Northern barbarians ran way from Vietnam from 938 year AD.

sorry, history is written in my language, and i read not a word of barbaric, vietnamese words (which is actually too latinized to truly belong to viets at any rate, no?), so i have to assume what you just said is all viemish gibberish - my reasoning is simple: if you viets claimed to have occupied hunan, what monumental defeats and military catastrophes could have driven you barbarians all the way to the insect-infested vietnam? it seems hans and viets really enjoy different level of successes as races, don't we?

 

[Anonymous user]

Dude, are you living in 'democratic country' ??what's wrong with your Google ??

Simply because I used the terms Rear Admiral Malacca straits and guess what nothing turned up, because the article you put has no mention of such "rear admiral" Also the whole article is questionable, the english used is rubbish, my 6 year old niece can spell better than that. Read this and see if it makes sense

" 6 “Kilo” class diesel-electric submarines acquired quiet, that is the heart of Vietnam’s submarine warfare program. Expected around 2012 in 2010, the newspaper (wtf a newspaper???) will block the Straits of Malacca with the eastern entrance of the local capacity. ( Source: International Herald Tribune )"

Dude, we don't wanna fight with you guys, just stay neutral , pls note that: one nuke capable missile Shaddock is enough to erase your tiny Singapore in few minutes

Firstly you have no nukes which we all know, secondly dropping on Singapore will pretty much also impact Malaysia and Indonesia severely which is pretty much tantamount to war on both countries. Did that ever occur to you?

get life, dude, our Russia boss has lots of $$$ to build a sub-base for us. Remember we defeated US buy Soviet's weapon too ??

You get a life, full of nonsense as usual, don't bother replying. I'll arrange for an ignore request. No point speaking to bozo's who can't even understand simple economics. Downgrades my intellect

 

[ahfatzia]

@ Anonymous user

Bro don't take this devious guy seriously he's the biggest troll around, however you can have a little fun with him though.