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Generation 2.0: Arjun Mk-2

I support your point and also quality is superior than quantity.

But we also needed quantity to tackle dragons.

But I dont understand why do we need more arjuns. We already have enough T-90's and they are not going to be replaced soon. To counter our eastern rival, do u think we would be fighting with tanks and artillery's?? No..So why not make those investments in better technology.
 
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But I dont understand why do we need more arjuns. We already have enough T-90's and they are not going to be replaced soon. To counter our eastern rival, do u think we would be fighting with tanks and artillery's?? No..So why not make those investments in better technology.

I don't support the mass production of arjun and also t-90 bhishma.

MoD should scrap the 1600 t-90 tank deal.

And give the funds to arjun mk-2 and TANK EX for its development and for mass production line.

I don't understanding why MoD going for T-90. where DRDO make better tanks according to IA.

MoD should also take a proposal for TANK EX mk 2 which should be in light weight but better than T-90
 
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you do realise the TAnk-Ex is just an upgrade.

We are tanking the old , the very old chassis of the T-72 , we are not making new Chassis , these are the T-72 we already have , we are tossing the turret and sticking the Arjun turret on top.

there is no Tank-EX mkII.

It was a decent idea for upgrades that never worked.

You don't make new tanks by taking half of an old tank and half of a new one and mixing them together. And you certainly don't MkII of those upgraded models.

They have limited life and they will be tossed out.



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How , is making the tank heavier , get rid of the weight issue ?
the point was they want a light lighter tank. Making it heavier is not going to solve that issue.

Either IA learns to live with it , Like many other armies arround the world have.

Or

DRDO or some one else makes them a lighter tank with all the hundreds of gadgets IA wants Squeezed into them.


To reduce wt DRDO have to remove some gadgets from this tank.

This means this tank takes shape according to t-90.
and then how we tackle TYPE 99 KM
 
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when 2000 tanks are nearing the end of their service life.... i seriously feel the need of a good tank that too in large no. in order to replace those t 72s

anyways any update to the tank-ex ???

, it cud be a gud upgrade option if army gives it a nod ..... but i heard they rejected it !!!

i seriously feel army doesn't want arjun or 'any part of it in their force' .......

they are suffering from arjuno-phobia ...

leaving just one option/hope .... arjun mk2

seriously expecting alot from mk2....

having an autoloader is better than a manual loader !!! how come when they give same rate of fire .. and weapon selection is easier with a manual loader !!!

Well, now they definitely wouldn't resist to accept Arjun because it has already smoked of T-90s in the exercise where even visitors also admitted its good performance. So, DRDO can now come up with a lighter alternative to both Arjun and the soon to be waded out, T-72s for which the Tank-Ex can act as a technology and concept demonstrator.

It is true that manual loaders still have some reliability issues and issues with change of ammunition. They also take up more space from the turret and it is tough to reload the gun incase the autoloader breaks down.

But it has many advantage as well. Like, it ensures reliability of fast and precise reloading even in uneven-bumpy terrains and also manages to achieve a consistency in rate of reloading. Gunners may also have issues with hills and slopes for reloading but it is not a case with autoloader. Also, if say there are 3-tanks with a 4 man crew and we apply an autoloader to each. Then the new crew of each tank would become 3 and 3 is also the number of people standing outside now(gunners because the autoloaders have taken up there place). In such a case, we can crew them up to form a new tank which would result in 4 instead of three tanks and go a long way in increasing firepower and survivability.
 
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I don't support the mass production of arjun and also t-90 bhishma.

MoD should scrap the 1600 t-90 tank deal.

And give the funds to arjun mk-2 and TANK EX for its development and for mass production line.

I don't understanding why MoD going for T-90. where DRDO make better tanks according to IA.

MoD should also take a proposal for TANK EX mk 2 which should be in light weight but better than T-90

This is because the Indian Army now intends to prepare itself so much that if in case China attacks it, it can defend itself. Since, most of its Tanks(T-72s) are now not good enough to handle modern chinese tanks.

Also, they suspect a time and /or money overrun in the future projects taken up by DRDO, aswell. Hence, they are buying and/or manufacturing teh T-90s.

Its like something is better than nothing. But the money spent behind upgradation of T-72s makes me say-nothing is better than nonsense.
 
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To reduce wt DRDO have to remove some gadgets from this tank.

This means this tank takes shape according to t-90.
and then how we tackle TYPE 99 KM

Not necessarily , i also thought like that but it turns out the most modern and advanced tanks can actually have very light weight and very capable.

But a lot of that stuff , is really cutting edge.
I mean if we made a tank that actually fit the IA description of capabilities and maintain low weight.
We would not just one of the best makers of tanks , but world leaders in tank design. But sadly this is a case of Ambition exceeding Capabilities.

IA needs to be more grounded in their expectations from Arjun , it's a tank that performs as well if not better than the T-90.
Expecting it to transform into an lightweight and still retain all the positives of a heavier model is unrealistic. It needs to support out efforts thus far with more orders.

We have the FMBT requirements and we can see what we can make of them , but that is 10-15 years down the line. For now we have a modern state of the art Arjun tank. And we shouldn't let it go to waste.

DRDO is not reducing weight on Arjun for precisely these reasons , it's simple not feasible.

Arjun Mk-2 has more weight because we should try to capitalise on our advantage that we have a heaver tank let's make the best of it.
Squeeze as much as you can on to it.

One thing is for sure however , ArjunMKII will be hell of a lot more advanced then the T-90's we have now . And will also be more cost effective simply because its our tank.

But even after all this Weight will always be an issue , everyone wants light tanks , not because of some BS " the bridge will collapse " , but simple because they are easier to move around , logicically more flexible and can traverse much more ground .
 
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Well, now they definitely wouldn't resist to accept Arjun because it has already smoked of T-90s in the exercise where even visitors also admitted its good performance. So, DRDO can now come up with a lighter alternative to both Arjun and the soon to be waded out, T-72s for which the Tank-Ex can act as a technology and concept demonstrator.

It is true that manual loaders still have some reliability issues and issues with change of ammunition. They also take up more space from the turret and it is tough to reload the gun incase the autoloader breaks down.

But it has many advantage as well. Like, it ensures reliability of fast and precise reloading even in uneven-bumpy terrains and also manages to achieve a consistency in rate of reloading. Gunners may also have issues with hills and slopes for reloading but it is not a case with autoloader. Also, if say there are 3-tanks with a 4 man crew and we apply an autoloader to each. Then the new crew of each tank would become 3 and 3 is also the number of people standing outside now(gunners because the autoloaders have taken up there place). In such a case, we can crew them up to form a new tank which would result in 4 instead of three tanks and go a long way in increasing firepower and survivability.


I really support for tank ex mk 2 version. But to reduce wt of tank DRDO should have to reduce gadgets. It cannot apply a autoloder on light weight tank. But also these light wt tank for defensive purpose not for offensive. We should go for offensive mission by arjun and arjun mk 2. So, we not needed much quantity of arjun. but we needed the quantity of light wt tank(TANK EX).

But i suggest autoloder,new engine(2000hp),good range(550 km) for arjun mk 2 because this is for offensive missions.
 
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IA needs to be more grounded in their expectations from Arjun , it's a tank that performs as well if not better than the T-90.

ArjunMKII will be hell of a lot more advanced then the T-90's we have now.

Are you trying to say that Arjun Mk1 is inferior to T-90???? No way, brother. Arjun is not just equivalent but far superior to the IAs current T-90s, however, they loose out on electronic countermeasures to the original T-90s. In every other aspect(excluding transportation due to weight differences), the Arjun is well ahead of T-90s.

The reason behind acquiring T-90s is that 1.) Russians are not very fussy and are cheap and ready to transfer technology in trade with India with comparison to other countries. 2.) T-90 can be manufactured in-house due to past experience with other Russian tanks and the advantage of the Russians sharing technology with us.
3.) T-90s are easier to handle because they are basically T-72s with up-to-date electronics, a new turret and new armor and missile firing capabilities. So, Indian troops can be trained fast enough, maintenance is faster and easier and other such advantages due to past experiences with Russian platforms.

All-in-all, IA has ordered T-90s in masses so that when it removes T-72s from service, it has a back-up.

Arjun could have been inducted in their place lest it would have had proved its might in the initial trials. When it is about issues of Defence, IA couldn't have risked mass production of an equipment which can turn the whole wave of war, just because it is an indigenous effort. Their also have been cases of fraud and similar issues regarding Arjun's induction but not all IA officials are frauds or are reluctant to induct Arjun. In case a war would have broken out and Arjun might not have had played its role well enough, who was to blame???? Nor you, nor me but IA officials. They have the responsibility of the whole nation, its money, the life of its citizens and the independence of the nation on their shoulders. How could they have had accepted faulty materials??????(However, now, Arjun is just the best India can look forward to and now DRDO has moved from correction of Arjun to development of new technologies for Arjun)

But we should be proud that IA and DRDO removed their differences & came together to sort issues and here, we have it, 250 Arjun MK-1s on order and plans for Arjun MK2s.

We should be proud of our country rather than criticizing its moves. They aren't fools. Afterall, for whom are they doing all these risky jobs. For our country, whose soul rests in its citizens, that is, for us.
Cheer em' up. And be proud of our nation.

Jai hind.
 
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I really support for tank ex mk 2 version. But to reduce wt of tank DRDO should have to reduce gadgets. It cannot apply a autoloder on light weight tank. But also these light wt tank for defensive purpose not for offensive. We should go for offensive mission by arjun and arjun mk 2. So, we not needed much quantity of arjun. but we needed the quantity of light wt tank(TANK EX).

But i suggest autoloder,new engine(2000hp),good range(550 km) for arjun mk 2 because this is for offensive missions.

If India divides its tanks on the basis of offensive or defensive roles and puts Arjun MBT Mk-2 on offensive, I would definitely recommend a larger calibre gun of ~150mm. But again arises the question of logistics and transportation, since Arjun is a heavy and space consuming one. I hope Indian AirForce and Indian Navy are prepared enough for it. But I, from the bottom of my heart, want to see Arjun doing what we say in general as - "Ghar mein ghuske marna".
 
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If India divides its tanks on the basis of offensive or defensive roles and puts Arjun MBT Mk-2 on offensive, I would definitely recommend a larger calibre gun of ~150mm.

Dam , that's a big gun.
I mean really that's the biggest tank gun i ever heard of.

I think we can do with a 120mm rifled

Sure higher calibre is good but it has a whole list of problems , thank has to have a god way of managing that big barrel and recoil , and the round will obviously be bigger and heavier so you can carry less

But again arises the question of logistics and transportation, since Arjun is a heavy and space consuming one. I hope Indian AirForce and Indian Navy are prepared enough for it. But I, from the bottom of my heart, want to see Arjun doing what we say in general as - "Ghar mein ghuske marna".

Arjun is too heavy to put on plane.

Unless the tank is in the lower 40tonne range you cant even think about air lifting them.

Tanks above 50 tonnes have to to shipped or moved by rail.
 
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Are you trying to say that Arjun Mk1 is inferior to T-90???? No way, brother. Arjun is not just equivalent but far superior to the IAs current T-90s, however, they loose out on electronic countermeasures to the original T-90s. In every other aspect(excluding transportation due to weight differences), the Arjun is well ahead of T-90s.

Well i agree , based on the Fact that the Arjun has an APU and t-90 does not.

but keep in mind that as far as the trails go, we are only speculating.

No one knows the whole picture of what happened at the trials.

T-90 have have had high point as well . it's irrefutable that the Arjun had a good showing as evidenced by the orders. But the exact nature of which still remains a secret. We have had selective leaks here and there and silence regarding both the Arjun and the T-90 from other's .
one just as easily speculate that both our tanks did well.

The reason behind acquiring T-90s is that
1.) Russians are not very fussy and are cheap and ready to transfer technology in trade with India with comparison to other countries.

2.) T-90 can be manufactured in-house due to past experience with other Russian tanks and the advantage of the Russians sharing technology with us.

Well i am sorry to tell you this , but we have had a while list of problems with the T-90 deal , from ToT issues , to secret back-door price cutting .

The bureaucracy of this deal is highly suspect , but that's just how it is i supposed


3.) T-90s are easier to handle because they are basically T-72s with up-to-date electronics, a new turret and new armor and missile firing capabilities. So, Indian troops can be trained fast enough, maintenance is faster and easier and other such advantages due to past experiences with Russian platforms.

All-in-all, IA has ordered T-90s in masses so that when it removes T-72s from service, it has a back-up.

Actually IA wanted a tank that can function at 50degrees in the deserts and Arjun was going no where at the time, so the T-90's were ordered.

Arjun could have been inducted in their place lest it would have had proved its might in the initial trials. When it is about issues of Defence, IA couldn't have risked mass production of an equipment which can turn the whole wave of war, just because it is an indigenous effort. Their also have been cases of fraud and similar issues regarding Arjun's induction but not all IA officials are frauds or are reluctant to induct Arjun. In case a war would have broken out and Arjun might not have had played its role well enough, who was to blame???? Nor you, nor me but IA officials. They have the responsibility of the whole nation, its money, the life of its citizens and the independence of the nation on their shoulders. How could they have had accepted faulty materials??????(However, now, Arjun is just the best India can look forward to and now DRDO has moved from correction of Arjun to development of new technologies for Arjun)

Now now , we are just speculating and concluding based on limited information.

Now i will admit some decisions and events may be questionable and some may even appear down right preposterous.

But we don't have the whole picture and we shouldn't jump the gun.

Also Arjun had many problems well into the late 2000's , the moment they were inducted however IT was an admission by the IA , that the Tank had met its requirements and that it combat worthy.
And these are the same tanks that participated in the trials.

If however the Arjun was not combat worthy as some have suggested , then the IA would have been guilty of a far greater crime , of putting our soldiers in harms way with improper equipment , this would certainly top you and my previous assertions.

So i will say this is not the case.

But that does leave us with a whole list of questions , which i suppose will never be answered.

But we can't jump to conclusions because of that.

But we should be proud that IA and DRDO removed their differences & came together to sort issues and here, we have it, 250 Arjun MK-1s on order and plans for Arjun MK2s.

Proud indeed ,

but don't delude your self , i seriously doubt IA to start trusting DRDO after all those years of in-fighting.

If weight was really that big an issue , then i must say , they should have communicated it to DRDO during the design phase it self.

this lack of communication shows a significant trust deficit and lack of cooperation between the two.

We should be proud of our country rather than criticizing its moves. They aren't fools. Afterall, for whom are they doing all these risky jobs. For our country, whose soul rests in its citizens, that is, for us.
Cheer em' up. And be proud of our nation.

Criticize is good , pride is also good .

But like all good things we need moderation. one should not eclipse the other.

We Should criticize least we be blinded by our pride.

But if you criticize to much , and forget to be proud with or without the Criticism , You may well end up like a certain India memeber on this forum ;)

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Sorry for the Philosophy rant , I saw an oppertunity and i took it :lol:
 
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????????? explain what you said

This is Arjun Mk-2's picture isn't it?

TK-K.jpg


And this is Japan tk_x's tank pic. isn't it?
tk_x.jpg


So i said, it looks like this japan tank...
 
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