General Niazi: Traitor or Hero?

[A1Kaid]

90000 men could have put up a huge fight .. not a hero sorry

Get your facts correct, 90,000 were not soldiers, about 50,000 of them were military personnel the rest were government and civil personnel loyal to Pakistan. The soldiers remaining lacked military supplies to continue fighting. Looking back at the war, Pakistan should have applied more military pressure on India's western front, and should have coordinated China to supply the PA in East Pakistan. On the US front, Richard Nixon was willing to do more Pakistan should have requested military supplies and assistance from US. USAF could have engaged in aerial strikes on Indian military, Richard Nixon deliberated using force against India in 1971.


As for Gen. Niazi whether he is a hero or traitor one thing for sure he is a loser. In my personal opinion he is a traitor as he betrayed the army and the soldiers under his command, he and many of the Brigadier Generals deployed in East Pakistan are all traitors.

 

[pak-marine]

am not saying he was like gaddafi, but if IA had kept pushing what would have happened to them? Eventually they would have surrendered, but not to IA but to a militia. Considering what the pakistani army did, the retribution would have been really bad.
I guess Niazi would have fought, if he had any hope of outside help.
The airforce was gone.

They would have died defending or what else .. thats it ! in my opinion you die defending your cause rather than giving up cowardly.

 

[A1Kaid]

Gov. Gen. Jinnah should have better bargain the territory of Pakistan with the British, creating a small vulnerable East Pakistan 800 miles away with a hostile enemy in between was never a smart thought out move; considering the people in E. Pakistan were linguistically and ethnically different from the west Pakistanis who were more united. The defense of E. Pakistan during those decades was also difficult' especially due to the logistics involved. The whole E. Pakistan was a failure waiting to happen, things could have been averted with careful planning but the political establishment of Pakistan wasn't up for the task.

 

[pak-marine]

Get your facts correct, 90,000 were not soldiers, about 50,000 of them were military personnel the rest were government and civil personnel loyal to Pakistan. The soldiers remaining lacked military supplies to continue fighting. Looking back at the war, Pakistan should have applied more military pressure on India's western front, and should have coordinated China to supply the PA in East Pakistan. On the US front, Richard Nixon was willing to do more Pakistan should have requested military supplies and assistance from US. USAF could have engaged in aerial strikes on Indian military, Richard Nixon deliberated using force against India in 1971.
As for Gen. Niazi whether he is a hero or traitor one thing for sure he is a loser. In my personal opinion he is a traitor as he betrayed the army and the soldiers under his command, he and many of the Brigadier Generals deployed in East Pakistan are all traitors.

90K is mostly quoted by sources, however its not relevant even if it was 50K soldiers still huge numbers ! they could have sacrificed in the path of defending the nation than surrendering cowardly , it would have atleast made a positive impact on the nation and armed forces , on the other hand the enemy would have known for future endevours PA forces will fight till the last men. This is to with honour and dignity rather than text book style war

 

[A1Kaid]

90K is mostly quoted by sources, however its not relevant even if it was 50K soldiers still huge numbers ! they could have sacrificed in the path of defending the nation than surrendering cowardly , it would have atleast made a positive impact on the nation and armed forces , on the other hand the enemy would have known for future endevours PA forces will fight till the last men. This is to with honour and dignity rather than text book style war

The 90k figure is the number of total prisoners of war, what I'm telling you is of that 90k POWs only about 50k of them were actual military personnel. The 50k soldiers were a depleted force surrounded by over 200,000+ fresh and well supplied enemy forces.

 

[pak-marine]

The 90k figure is the number of total prisoners of war, what I'm telling you is of that 90k POWs only about 50k of them were actual military personnel. The 50k soldiers were a depleted force surrounded by over 200,000+ fresh and well supplied enemy forces.

Ok there was 1 Man remaining forget 90K - 50K business , let me know What do you have to say about the rest of the post about national dignity & honour if those men had fought hard and died instead of surrendering

 

[A1Kaid]

Ok there was 1 Man remaining forget 90K - 50K business , let me know What do you have to say about the rest of the post about national dignity & honour if those men had fought hard and died instead of surrendering

Of course they should not have surrendered, did you not read what I typed? Pakistan should have coordinated with China to supply the Army in E. Pakistan with military supplies, and coordinated with US for military hardware and supplies, Richard Nixon also deliberated military force against India had Pakistan convinced him more he could have authorized USAF surgical strikes on Indian military in 1971 war.

 

[third eye]

Of course they should not have surrendered, did you not read what I typed? Pakistan should have coordinated with China to supply the Army in E. Pakistan with military supplies, and coordinated with US for military hardware and supplies, Richard Nixon also deliberated military force against India had Pakistan convinced him more he could have authorized USAF surgical strikes on Indian military in 1971 war.

You obviously are not abreast with the happenings else you would not feel so.

1. Coordinated withe the Chinese : Dec 71 , the passes had closed, India had placed at least one division for such an eventuality. How do you feel the Chinese could have supplied ? Do you suggest they could have come through Indian positions from the North & sent supplies ? The Burma opition was a no- go.

2. Coordinated with US.. India had covered this too by signing the treaty with USSR, the 7th fleet did come but to what avail. Surgical strikes ?!! Would US risk a life time of animosity for a Dictator regime who was in the wrong ?

The best option for Yahya was not to have ordered those Pre emptive strikes on 3rd Dec and negotiated.

I suggest you read.

 

[A1Kaid]

You obviously are not abreast with the happenings else you would not feel so.

1. Coordinated withe the Chinese : Dec 71 , the passes had closed, India had placed at least one division for such an eventuality. How do you feel the Chinese could have supplied ? Do you suggest they could have come through Indian positions from the North & sent supplies ? The Burma opition was a no- go.

2. Coordinated with US.. Indi

a had covered this too by signing the treaty with USSR, the 7th fleet did come but to what avail. Surgical strikes ?!! Would US risk a life time of animosity for a Dictator regime who was in the wrong ?

The best option for Yahya was not to have ordered those Pre emptive strikes on 3rd Dec and negotiated.

I suggest you read.

1. Coordinated withe the Chinese : Dec 71 , the passes had closed, India had placed at least one division for such an eventuality. How do you feel the Chinese could have supplied ? Do you suggest they could have come through Indian positions from the North & sent supplies ? The Burma opition was a no- go.

Wrong options and routes were available, a few passes being closed didn't hinder all supply routes which could have been used by Pakistan and China. Doesn't matter if you have Indian troops in northern E. Pakistan because they could have been bypassed.

2. Coordinated with US.. India had covered this too by signing the treaty with USSR, the 7th fleet did come but to what avail. Surgical strikes ?!! Would US risk a life time of animosity for a Dictator regime who was in the wrong ?

Pres. Richard Nixon was ready to commit to military action, the USSR would not stop US if it were to conduct surgical strikes. The US had sent it's aircraft carrier ready to conduct surgical strikes on India, Pres. Nixon was also ready but some in the White House were hesitant so the final go wasn't approved. As for the USSR do you really think they would fight the US for the sake of Indian lives? They were just there to intimidate, US was there to annihilate and had the aircrafts armed and ready.

 

[Last Hope]

A1Kaid, check out my thread in the Research and Database Forum.

 

[third eye]

Wrong options and routes were available, a few passes being closed didn't hinder all supply routes which could have been used by Pakistan and China. Doesn't matter if you have Indian troops in northern E. Pakistan because they could have been bypassed.

[B]Are you suggesting China should have passed through India to supply EP ? What supply routes were available to the Chinese ..pray elaborate.Maybe the Indian MO got it wrong & had a close shave.. [/B]

Pres. Richard Nixon was ready to commit to military action, the USSR would not stop US if it were to conduct surgical strikes. The US had sent it's aircraft carrier ready to conduct surgical strikes on India, Pres. Nixon was also ready but some in the White House were hesitant so the final go wasn't approved. As for the USSR do you really think they would fight the US for the sake of Indian lives? They were just there to intimidate, US was there to annihilate and had the aircrafts armed and ready.

Like I said..pls read. Where was the 7th Fleet on 15- 16 Dec 71 - Check. You tube clips on where the russian subs were.

Yes Nixon did Pak a favour for IA had already moved its tanks and other formations to the Western Front. Thats when a cease fire was brought in, Else Indira Gandhi & Sam had plans..

 

[MastanKhan]

They should have fought till the last man even if the defeat was imminent....
General niazi was a disgrace, he should have shot himself for the failture.
The question arises how many of those faujis were praying nimaz 5 times and were asking for allah's help in their dua?

Hi,

Why don't you and RAZPAK go fight the taliban right to the last member of your family and lets see how it goes.

 

[RangerPK]

I think armies should keep fighting till the last man.. They are there to die, not surrender. And if the army is whipped out, then it becomes the job of civilians to defend themselves, for that they need training, which unfortunately, we don't have here in Pakistan.
Pakistan army and defence seems to need reforms, with the rest of the institution.

PS: when ever Pakistan army goes to its secret adventures, the Indian army moves towards Lahore. Does the Pak army think for once to take people of Lahore in confidence first? Since we have a lot at stake here. I think this is a dysfunctional nature of Pak army as it is not in synchronization with the rest of the country. Something needs to be done about it.

 

[RescueRanger]

I just want to say 2 things to all the arm chair commanders here, fought any wars recently? How many military crosses did you earn?

Okay now that I have said that, what I will say is that his actions did bring shame on Pakistan and Niazi's. His last days were spent debating what tikka had dine, which was make him a scapegoat.

50000/60000 troops and about 30000 razakar against Indian And Bangali forces, a blockade.... It was an un winnable war. And before anyone starts talking bullshit read in the London gazzet why he was awarded his military cross....

Cheers.

 

[Armstrong]

I just want to say 2 things to all the arm chair commanders here, fought any wars recently? How many military crosses did you earn?

Okay now that I have said that, what I will say is that his actions did bring shame on Pakistan and Niazi's. His last days were spent debating what tikka had dine, which was make him a scapegoat.

50000/60000 troops and about 30000 razakar against Indian And Bangali forces, a blockade.... It was an un winnable war. And before anyone starts talking bullshit read in the London gazzet why he was awarded his military cross....

Cheers.

Sir aap sirf isss liye keh raheii hain because Niazi aaap kii baradariii ka thaaa !

Aaap bhiii Punjabi Pukhtoon aur woh bhi Punjabi Pukhtoon !

But Imran Khan - Lahori Pukhtoon !