General Niazi: Traitor or Hero?

[SQ8]

@Oscar;
That account is plausible. I've heard some first hand accounts in BD. There is (was) a group of veterans in Chittagong who used to meet in a sweet shop called "Fullkolli" (part of a chain) that I got to meet with who told me similar stories over hot cups of tea and 'Shingaras' (samosas) which were spine-chilling. Just as my encounters with paraplegic (and some quadriplegic) Mukti Bahini youth just after the war who were rendered into that state largely due to 'claymore mines'.

However the question is; at lower levels Officers would have found it hard to indulge if the Higher Command did not sanction if not order such acts. So it is a Command and Control thing. However, there were officers who did not succumb to such desire also; which is a matter of fact.

But finally: War is Hell. And Human Beings have demonstrated that they can be the most blood-thirsty species on the Planet.

The problem is.. there were men of all kinds. One has to read accounts of WWII or anywhere else to realize that good and evil exist everywhere. And where there were such monsters.. there were also honorable men who belayed such orders to sanitize the population. Where there were Bengali who attacked the wives of Pakistani officers there were also those who stood between them.
While there were IA officers that protected POW's from a raging Mukti Bahni.. there were also those that gave them up.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

During the surrender naizi gave a loaded gun to arora... the only regret is tht he should have shot him (arora) or himself..

 

[patentneer]

Passionate thread .

One more point, WP of the day was an economic miracle.

A happening place, with the luxury of its own food and deep agri. base when India and east of India was 'bhooka' and the Arabs were 'nanga'.

Niazi, ever the practical nabob, caught between bhooke-nange's, saved his men. Why bother, anyone with the right mind would have concluded.

Pakistan (West) and Bengal being 2 different cultures would be obvious specially back then. Reasonable fellows these anglo-generals, he did the un-emotional, technical and practical thing by saving his men under overwhelming circumstances.

Different matter that in a feudal, rhetorical, emotionally /politically super-charged West Pakistan all reason was thrown to the winds.

 

[Thirdfront]

Passionate thread .

One more point, WP of the day was an economic miracle.

A happening place, with the luxury of its own food and deep agri. base when India and east of India was 'bhooka' and the Arabs were 'nanga'.

Niazi, ever the practical nabob, caught between bhooke-nange's, saved his men. Why bother, anyone with the right mind would have concluded.

Pakistan (West) and Bengal being 2 different cultures would be obvious specially back then. Reasonable fellows these anglo-generals, he did the un-emotional, technical and practical thing by saving his men under overwhelming circumstances.

Different matter that in a feudal, rhetorical, emotionally /politically super-charged West Pakistan all reason was thrown to the winds.

Off-course, it was enjoying the fruits of hard labour of 70 million people. While these 70milliion were bhooke nange, WP was a happening place, indeed. I was similar when whole of Indian subcontinent was bhooka nanga but Britain was a happening place..

 

[livingdead]

During the surrender naizi gave a loaded gun to arora... the only regret is tht he should have shot him (arora) or himself..

niazi did not bring his own gun, arora lend his own just for formality...

The problem is.. there were men of all kinds. One has to read accounts of WWII or anywhere else to realize that good and evil exist everywhere. And where there were such monsters.. there were also honorable men who belayed such orders to sanitize the population. Where there were Bengali who attacked the wives of Pakistani officers there were also those who stood between them.
While there were IA officers that protected POW's from a raging Mukti Bahni.. there were also those that gave them up.

you mean some POWs are unaccounted for, the way you said some protected and some gave them up seems to suggest people who were let go were not insignificant numbers?

 

[third eye]

The 71 war had foregone conclusions even before it began.

From a Pak standpoint it is understandable to be upset. They were fed all sorts of propaganda on how the war was going. Add to that immature remarks by Niazi as illustrated in the BBC report of Dec 71.

The fact on the ground were totally different as illustrated by the report below.

The only thing that stands out is given the obvious disadvantages Pak had prior to the war, why did it let things reach a stage that they did ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnQ2gDG1gM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWQsZ2oHUoQ

 

[dexter]

He should commit suicide after surrender !
Ek izzat dar fauji ki yahi nishani hoti he!

 

[SQ8]

niazi did not bring his own gun, arora lend his own just for formality...



you mean some POWs are unaccounted for, the way you said some protected and some gave them up seems to suggest people who were let go were not insignificant numbers?

Let go does not mean unaccounted.. it means giving them up for torture.. And yes.. there were a significant number of men who were left for torture.

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

Well, we all know the negative side of the story in 1971 war and how cowardly Niazi was to surrender to the Indians.

During the WWII Americans,Brits,Germans,Italians,Polish,Russians and others did surrender at times,with hundreds of thousands of men,to save their lives when the mission was lost. General Niazi was outnumbered by 1-25 both Mukti Bahinis and the Indian military.

Was his decision to surrender after the cause was lost correct which saved 90000 lives, and if or not he deserves credit for it?

Please participate in the poll.

Best regards.

can you provide any credible proof or any official document which tells you that the number of soldiers surrendered were actually 90,000 in reality ... ??

 

[S.Y.A]

can you provide any credible proof or any official document which tells you that the number of soldiers surrendered were actually 90,000 in reality ... ??

they were actually 40-50k actually, all the rest were jamat e islami razakaars, or the civil service, police, and paramilitary sent from west Pakistan to support the army in bengal and so in total 90k prisoners but regular army was way less than that

 

[pak-marine]

90000 men could have put up a huge fight .. not a hero sorry

 

[livingdead]

90000 men could have put up a huge fight .. not a hero sorry

fighting to last man? they were trapped there with no sight of outside help, and mukti vahini people could have slaughtered them. Indian army looked like god send for these men.

would you prefer to be killed by militia (like gaddafi died, dragged from hole) or surrender and given safe passage by a professional army.

 

[Last Hope]

Tiger Niazi was a hero.

 

[pak-marine]

fighting to last man? they were trapped there with no sight of outside help, and mukti vahini people could have slaughtered them. Indian army looked like god send for these men.
would you prefer to be killed by militia (like gaddafi died, dragged from hole) or surrender and given safe passage by a professional army.

A huge army with so much arsenal airforce etc c could have done a lot more than surrendering also silly example i guess here or may be you are confusing two different things Gaddafi was a dictator where as Bangladeshis choose to be a part of Pakistan their were grievances however and we had support on the other hand.

 

[livingdead]

A huge army with so much arsenal airforce etc c could have done a lot more than surrendering also silly example i guess here or may be you are confusing two different things Gaddafi was a dictator where as Bangladeshis choose to be a part of Pakistan their were grievances however and we had support on the other hand.

am not saying he was like gaddafi, but if IA had kept pushing what would have happened to them? Eventually they would have surrendered, but not to IA but to a militia. Considering what the pakistani army did, the retribution would have been really bad.
I guess Niazi would have fought, if he had any hope of outside help.
The airforce was gone.