Gen.Raheel's Visit & Staged U S Reception---Pres. Obama's Threat To Strike Pakistan

[Humble Analyst]

Hi,

I just heard the state of the union address---and for that reason I changed the title of this thread as well.

In his state of the union address---Pres Obama directly threatened to take military action against pakistan.

If you listened to his speech----he talked about some areas where there will always be trouble---and pakistan was named amongst those countries---he further went on to state that military action will be taken against those coutnries---and one of those countries was pakistan.

This attitude of the U S has been picture clear for the last few years to find an opportunity and excuse to take out pakistan. If it was not for isis---the mission to neutrallize pakistan would have already started.

For the last few years there is nothing much positive coming out for pakistan---other than the regular feel good statements---.

The U S likes Nawaz Shareef---because he is a coward and a gutless man---he can be forced into taking the direction that the U S wants to give---actually Nawaz is happy to oblige---as long as he gets his business deals in the package.

So---going back to the threat---it seems like the paf has failed to understand the changing scenario---just like it did with france regarding the radar and electronics warfare package for the JF17---.

I just could not comprehend that long visit by the air chief marshall. Are they so dellusional and so deep into their self beliefs that they did not see what kind of change was coming---.

Same thing with Gen Raheel---what was he thinking---with Nawaz Sharif I can understand---he likes to be spanked by powerful leaders and likes to look compliant and submissive to look good in their eyes.




Hi,

It is not a matter of getting 8 F16's only---it is a matter of changing the battle plans---it is a matter of breaking away from the enchantment that the F 16 has created and focusing on something else.

The thing is that we should have had over 150 F16's by now and over a 150 JF17's to date.

We only got 70 F16's and 60 JF17's---and no true air superiority fighter aircraft of the caliber of the Rafale or the eurofighter---.

As for the afghans---pakistran must ask the afghan pashtuns to join pakistan and seperate from northern alliance territories---.

I heard the state of union as well and do not conclude such results, while I agree US is not friendly with Pakistan ad just Cordial but this is an exaggeration of facts and state of union address.

 

[SrNair]

I think we over estimate US power when it comes to taking military action against countries. There is no single country which US has taken a direct military action against which has;
1 A Democratically elected government
2 A good professional Army
3 A backing of another big country like China or Russia

I always had this feeling 'a conspiracy theory' you may call, that the establishment in Pakistan got rid of Musharraf, brought in PPP minus Benazeer(read openly anti islamist party) during hot times when US was in maximum strength during the Afghan invasion. I think powers to be understood that if Musharraf(read secular dictator) stays USA can demonise him as they demonised Saddam Hussein(secular dictator) and will make it a pretext to give Pakistan 'real' democracy and 'freedom'. The reference to this can be found why Musharraf did not like Kiyani at the end and how the Lawyers movement got so much momentum. TTP also served the purpose of deflection however this did got out of hand and somewhere along the road there were underestimations as well. Anyhow like any good conspiracy theory this lacks strong and credible references from mainstream to back it up.

Now coming to why Gen Raheel went to US with such high hopes is;
1 Governments are always pragmatic. US knows where Pakistan stood and how it played US but they had to get out of this mess called Afghanistan. They were lucky in Vietnam as it was decades ago fortunately/unfortunately world does not work like it used to in those times. Gen Raheel leverage was to give US a good exit with Taliban on table for lasting settlement in exchange of continued military support and bringing India to table. How could US refuse?
2 Gen Raheel had the edge of being a general who had shown TTP the door, not many can boast of this feat and he showed US that he could be the man to tackle India centric and US centric groups as well when push comes to shove provided Pakistan interests are also taken care of.

In my opinion with a view of whats happening around, it wouldn't be too naive to say he did his job whether US likes him or not. Whatever Obama says Pakistan's days of turmoil are over IA

F16 J22 JF17 SU35 are all toys. Their significance can never overbear a good stroke of strategy. Pakistan wont require these toys so badly if not at all if things work out they way they are planned

@sady Your second point is so wrong .
Saddam Iraq had a true professional army .But what happened ?
Of Course US wont attack Russia or China .But both these nations abilities to stop another US invasion is very limited .Russia actually did that in Syria .But how long ?Their economy is already taking a good toll.Chinese economy still depend US economy .
It is a hard reality.Be it military ,be it economy ,be it diplomacy US is always one step ahead that others .
Look how they meticulously created a good relation with India during last decade .

 

[rockstar08]

Mastan i think you are over thinking about stuff man ...
yeah US is super power but Attacking Pakistan will be their doom , specially for their forces in region along with entire region ...
I dont think US think tanks are that Stupid as we have on PDF to attack a Nuclear Armed state with Active BM and CM ?

what can US do ? Attack Pakistan , send in Special forces to take down Nuke Sites ? that will be the Joke .. after putting Billion of Dollars in spying they still yet to locate our nukes , forget about attacking them ...
than what next ? get Air superiority ? ok they can get it ...
but than ? destroying Army , Air force and Naval Infrastructure ? leaving 0.6 Million army ?

becoming armed rebels ? LOL that will be nightmare for Americans as they will never try anything like Iraq ..
Pakistan Army its officers are far more trained than Iraqi Army and imagine if they choose to start a Armed struggle against the occupied forces combined in Afghanistan and Pakistan ?

that will be slaughter of US forces ... they should get the coffins in thousands first ...
War is not just about Attacking and Destroying , its about sustaining .. and no matter how much US military is mightier than us , they can't sustain a month in Pakistan , with armed men roaming on streets , IED attacks, ambushes ..
not to forget the 2.0 Million Armed Tribal along with Baluch and Sindh tribes all are armed to teeth ..
they will rape American in a worse way possible ..

indiscriminate bombing will attract Russian and China into equation , the world will see any move against Pakistan as act of aggression , and than we will have all Option including using nuclear Attack on US bases in the region ...

no matter what will happen to Pakistan but US will be stripped down from its Super power title along with doomed Economy ..

so in short Attacking Pakistan will be end of US as Super Power .. dont believe me ask your leader to give it a try
Pakistani's are fcuking crazy people , if the State Declare a Jihad against the Oppressors there will be around 10 Million Armed people attacking any Forces in the streets of Pakistan .. no to mentioned a Topple like Iran can devastate the entire region with 120 Nukes .. even 20 nukes survive it will be a destruction for not just Region but the entire world ..

dont forget ISIS is looking for Nukes from Black market .. and they are constantly working on finding scientist and Engineers .. and if they get the tech from black market giving some million of Dollars which they have .. the world will be doomed and US will be responsible for it

 

[CriticalThinker02]

There were three American Air-Craft carriers present just outside the Arabian Sea immediately after 9/11, if we had not played our cards well then the invasion of Pakistan would have happened.

But fortunately we did, we out smarted them and the mess the sole super power has created all over the world it is highly unlikely of that kind of scenario to ever happen again.

We should put the past where it belongs, learn from it yes but put it behind and don't lose focus on the real threat that is India and terrorism, if elements of terrorism remains (TTP or haqqani network etc), if there is a terror strike in the future that might include a nuclear weapon of some kind, blame on Pakistan can be made and the subsequent invasion just like how India uses such false flag attacks and blames it on Pakistan, a moral high ground can be made in the hopes of breaking away Pakistan.

We must free our selves from this liability completely.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Pakistan has moved on from depending on American aid, Musharraf and Zaradi made a habit of going to the US with a beggars bowl and then giving an opinion to the public that Pakistan is depended on USA and would be destroyed without it.
Nawaz Sharif has changed this opinion within months of taking office, Pakistan is now an emerging economy with countless business opportunities

what have you been smoking? Or are you one of those Pakistani who got UK visa by serving your master Nawaz sharif?

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Lol.. mastan i wasnt expecting this from u man!

 

[Silicon0000]

I have a feeling that this visit has something to do with middleeast-Iran situation.

 

[MastanKhan]

I heard the state of union as well and do not conclude such results, while I agree US is not friendly with Pakistan ad just Cordial but this is an exaggeration of facts and state of union address.

Hi,

It right after he states that there are some nations who have issues / unstable something to that effect---one of them is pakistan---and then the comments after that

 

[araz]

I think we over estimate US power when it comes to taking military action against countries. There is no single country which US has taken a direct military action against which has;
1 A Democratically elected government
2 A good professional Army
3 A backing of another big country like China or Russia

I always had this feeling 'a conspiracy theory' you may call, that the establishment in Pakistan got rid of Musharraf, brought in PPP minus Benazeer(read openly anti islamist party) during hot times when US was in maximum strength during the Afghan invasion. I think powers to be understood that if Musharraf(read secular dictator) stays USA can demonise him as they demonised Saddam Hussein(secular dictator) and will make it a pretext to give Pakistan 'real' democracy and 'freedom'. The reference to this can be found why Musharraf did not like Kiyani at the end and how the Lawyers movement got so much momentum. TTP also served the purpose of deflection however this did got out of hand and somewhere along the road there were underestimations as well. Anyhow like any good conspiracy theory this lacks strong and credible references from mainstream to back it up.

Now coming to why Gen Raheel went to US with such high hopes is;
1 Governments are always pragmatic. US knows where Pakistan stood and how it played US but they had to get out of this mess called Afghanistan. They were lucky in Vietnam as it was decades ago fortunately/unfortunately world does not work like it used to in those times. Gen Raheel leverage was to give US a good exit with Taliban on table for lasting settlement in exchange of continued military support and bringing India to table. How could US refuse?
2 Gen Raheel had the edge of being a general who had shown TTP the door, not many can boast of this feat and he showed US that he could be the man to tackle India centric and US centric groups as well when push comes to shove provided Pakistan interests are also taken care of.

In my opinion with a view of whats happening around, it wouldn't be too naive to say he did his job whether US likes him or not. Whatever Obama says Pakistan's days of turmoil are over IA

F16 J22 JF17 SU35 are all toys. Their significance can never overbear a good stroke of strategy. Pakistan wont require these toys so badly if not at all if things work out they way they are planned

If the US decides to come after Pakistan there is very little Pakistan will be able to do. The lynch pin is China and how it reacts. By my estimations China is still 10yrs away from giving the US a royal salute. For this to happen they need to improve their AF and they are buying SUs and developing J 11/16/20 series for precisely that. They are indulging in exercising with PAF to understand how the Western AFs operate. However a further war in the area on Pakistani soil would have to be justified by some topi drama. The real interest would be how Pakistan responds to it. If we play good boys on the surface while resisting behind the scenes it would be hard to justify an aggressive posturing against Pakistan although sanctions may be used.
War against Pakistan may be held via proxy states but this would be devastating with a lot of damage. So it might not be so easy inspite of the intentions
A

 

[sady]

@sady Your second point is so wrong .
Saddam Iraq had a true professional army .But what happened ?
Of Course US wont attack Russia or China .But both these nations abilities to stop another US invasion is very limited .Russia actually did that in Syria .But how long ?Their economy is already taking a good toll.Chinese economy still depend US economy .
It is a hard reality.Be it military ,be it economy ,be it diplomacy US is always one step ahead that others .
Look how they meticulously created a good relation with India during last decade .

I still stand by my 2nd and 3rd point. This a paragraph from Iraq inquiry

'On paper, too, the Iraqi army appeared to be a major military force. However, the conscript popular army, a million strong, was in reality poorly equipped with obsolescent weaponry and profoundly demoralised. Real power lay with the Special Republican Guard divisions, recruited from the Sunni heartlands of Northern and Western Iraq. Yet their real purpose was to guarantee the regime as much as to defend the state and, despite their superior armament, they represented much less of a threat to surrounding states. Beyond that, Iraq’s air-force was no longer a credible threat; its advanced fighter and bombers were interned in Iran, held against payment of war reparations, and the sanctions regime forbade it to fly any aircraft except helicopters'
Iraq and its environment before March 2003

Anyhow what I meant was if any country had all of these factors, it will make it highly unlikely for US to intervene.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

HI,

Gen Raheel's visit to the U S started with so much pomp and vigor and ended in much fanfare---but in its true self----it was just all for show and drama.

All the receptions and get together's and the time given by the senators and congressmen---the briefings by the general to the pentagon did not seem to have any substance to it at all---. The americans were attentive listeners---they were extremely cordial throughout all the time that the general was here in washington---but in truth---this welcome was basically a disguised goodbye to someone they had known over the years---it was basically all fluff.

It was done in a very polite and courteous manner---because the americans are not rude people---they are a wonderful people and will shove it up your's with a smile on their faces while holding your hand in a firm grip so that you do not have the time and the chance to run away.

The general's visit was as meaningless for the U S as it could be and of not much help for pakistan---because the U S has already walked out on afghanistan----it is not interested in pakistan's efforts if it does not include killing the afghan taliban and forcing them into submission to the northern alliance afghans.

The americans did not need any briefings from the generals at what good deeds the pakistani military is doing in Fata---they simply care less.

It is simply like this----you get to a stage when just one day you do not have any feelings for someone---because you simply have walked away in a different direction---or if there is someone else in your life that has entered that has shown more promise.

I feel terrible for Gen. Raheel---for he is a wonderful soldier---an extremely simple man with no fanfare---.

you, once again Mr Khan have pulled off an interesting spin out of a simple subject. unlike others who just copy paste the spam from the web. this is what encourages people to think differently and the subjects feel refreshed and different.

you have summed up the event beautifully. I agree completely that Americans like the guy and were polite to him, he is going to retire anyway and Afghanistan is again on the back burner for the Americans so whatever we do in FATA is all good. it can be better if we do the same to Haqqanis as well.

there is a missed opportunity here from American part. had they asked the Saudis to talk in the language Pakistanis understand better then this could have done wonders. imagine Imam Kabah or crown prince coming to Pakistan and telling them that bringing peace in Afghanistan was a Halal thing to do and would please His Majesty the King therefore helping Americans was as Halal and Jihadi as was getting their help back in 80s against USSR.

anyway what is done is done.the good general should just spend rest of his time attending the fair well dinners and hand over the command to next COAS.

 

[MastanKhan]

you, once again Mr Khan have pulled off an interesting spin out of a simple subject. unlike others who just copy paste the spam from the web. this is what encourages people to think differently and the subjects feel refreshed and different.

you have summed up the event beautifully. I agree completely that Americans like the guy and were polite to him, he is going to retire anyway and Afghanistan is again on the back burner for the Americans so whatever we do in FATA is all good. it can be better if we do the same to Haqqanis as well.

there is a missed opportunity here from American part. had they asked the Saudis to talk in the language Pakistanis understand better then this could have done wonders. imagine Imam Kabah or crown prince coming to Pakistan and telling them that bringing peace in Afghanistan was a Halal thing to do and would please His Majesty the King therefore helping Americans was as Halal and Jihadi as was getting their help back in 80s against USSR.

anyway what is done is done.the good general should just spend rest of his time attending the fair well dinners and hand over the command to next COAS.

Hi,

Irfan---see---I go back to Yemen---the missed opportunity---. If Pakistan military had looked at a force for the GCC in a different manner---there would have been massive new opportunities opened up.

Right now----we take a step forward---and we are pushed back two steps----something good starts to happen for Pakistan---there is something bad starting in the neighbor's----.

The yemen force would provided a massive cushion to any drama started by the neighbor---. The force did not have to fight per say---but just had to get its feet on the ground in the gulf countries.

I mean to say emirates---Qatar---Bahrain---etc don't want to send a force out to fight for them----they just wanted an umbrella of protection.

Even if they did not want it----it was the pak military's job to tell them that is what they want----. The presence of a force does not mean it would start to attack everyone---it is for support.

Now coming back to afg---what that would have done for afg was given Pakistan a little more leeway to deal with the situation.

The military strength gained from the fundings from yemen issue would have given the pak military a much needed strike capability-----and that would have kept things under control across the border.

The other issue over here is that the U S seriously wants to get its feet in India----. The U S is going to sell its soul to get what it wants.

The Gwadar port is a massive stake in the side of the U S interests----no other port gives so much power projection to Chinese navy and export and import freedom as it does.

There is nothing ever simple in the relationship with the U S----there is nothing simple in the picture that you see----the devil is always in the detail----.

When you see a scenario----just remember that Will Smith movie----Men In Black----visualize the scenario where during a visual test-----he is asked to look who the terrorist is amongst those nasty looking alien creatures and a little girl----and to take that terrorist out----.

 

[cloud4000]

Mastan i think you are over thinking about stuff man ...
yeah US is super power but Attacking Pakistan will be their doom , specially for their forces in region along with entire region ...
I dont think US think tanks are that Stupid as we have on PDF to attack a Nuclear Armed state with Active BM and CM ?

what can US do ? Attack Pakistan , send in Special forces to take down Nuke Sites ? that will be the Joke .. after putting Billion of Dollars in spying they still yet to locate our nukes , forget about attacking them ...
than what next ? get Air superiority ? ok they can get it ...
but than ? destroying Army , Air force and Naval Infrastructure ? leaving 0.6 Million army ?

becoming armed rebels ? LOL that will be nightmare for Americans as they will never try anything like Iraq ..
Pakistan Army its officers are far more trained than Iraqi Army and imagine if they choose to start a Armed struggle against the occupied forces combined in Afghanistan and Pakistan ?

that will be slaughter of US forces ... they should get the coffins in thousands first ...
War is not just about Attacking and Destroying , its about sustaining .. and no matter how much US military is mightier than us , they can't sustain a month in Pakistan , with armed men roaming on streets , IED attacks, ambushes ..
not to forget the 2.0 Million Armed Tribal along with Baluch and Sindh tribes all are armed to teeth ..
they will rape American in a worse way possible ..

indiscriminate bombing will attract Russian and China into equation , the world will see any move against Pakistan as act of aggression , and than we will have all Option including using nuclear Attack on US bases in the region ...

no matter what will happen to Pakistan but US will be stripped down from its Super power title along with doomed Economy ..

so in short Attacking Pakistan will be end of US as Super Power .. dont believe me ask your leader to give it a try
Pakistani's are fcuking crazy people , if the State Declare a Jihad against the Oppressors there will be around 10 Million Armed people attacking any Forces in the streets of Pakistan .. no to mentioned a Topple like Iran can devastate the entire region with 120 Nukes .. even 20 nukes survive it will be a destruction for not just Region but the entire world ..

dont forget ISIS is looking for Nukes from Black market .. and they are constantly working on finding scientist and Engineers .. and if they get the tech from black market giving some million of Dollars which they have .. the world will be doomed and US will be responsible for it

US invading Pakistan is your wet dream, nothing more. No one in the Pentagon is thinking of invading Pakistan because it's impossible. No military in the world exists that can do it. There are other ways to subdue a nation besides direct military actions.

 

[thrilainmanila]

this thread is a god damn joke, honestly i saw the state of union adress and obama never used any kind of threatening language against pakistan, and this bullshit about entering in alliances with the sauds who are partially responsible for the whabhism and sectarism is a laugh, 20 billion dollar would have been spent on building mansions and making private golf clubs, no country outside china/turkey are willing to assist pakistan militarily. (the us aid the pak army recieves is a fucking joke)

 

[cloud4000]

The other issue over here is that the U S seriously wants to get its feet in India----. The U S is going to sell its soul to get what it wants.

The Gwadar port is a massive stake in the side of the U S interests----no other port gives so much power projection to Chinese navy and export and import freedom as it does.

This is why US is so cool on Pakistan these days: Pakistan and US are on the wrong side of China. More acute with US draw down in Afghanistan.