Gaza-Israel Conflict | October 2023

[White and Green with M/S]

Things here are incredibly difficult to understand.

Attacking defenseless Israeli innocent citizens is distinct from causing problems for HAMAS and Palestine.

If you wish to explain why HAMAS killed innocent people because of the Israel and Palestine conflict, you probably didn't understand why, at the time, nearly no one supported the Palestinians and HAMAS publicly, including the Pakistani army and government.

The scenario might be different if the strike had only targeted the Israeli military, but when it targeted innocent Israeli citizens, everything is working against them.

Hamas is their freedom fighters organization they are fighting for freedom our govt and army is nothing we people of fully support Palestinians

If Hamas killed some innocent Israelis than look what Israel is doing continuously bombarding innocent Palestinians with no discrimination of civilians lol

 

[thetutle]

You expect from the softies to understand facts? These softies have not seen what US could do in war when in "gloves are off" phase.

Ask the Japanese.

The US, whilst very powerful is not capable of subjugating the whole world through destructive force. Simply because there are other countries capable of ending the US as a viable nation state and the first attempt made by the US to wipe out a nation or a people will signal to the rest of the world that they are next and would invite a response.

The response would be a proliferation of nukes to the targeted nations so that they can end the US threat themselves.

The ill conceived invasions made by the US allowed and mad clear to North Korea to develop the means to also end the US as a viable nation state. Or else its own survival was at stake.

The first attempt by the US to take the gloves off would see a large scale WMD development and that would change the whole world order.

 

[LeGenD]

The US, whilst very powerful is not capable of subjugating the whole world through destructive force. Simply because there are other countries capable of ending the US as a viable nation state and the first attempt made by the US to wipe out a nation or a people will signal to the rest of the world that they are next and would invite a response.

The response would be a proliferation of nukes to the targeted nations so that they can end the US threat themselves.

The ill conceived invasions made by the US allowed and mad clear to North Korea to develop the means to also end the US as a viable nation state. Or else its own survival was at stake.

The first attempt by the US to take the gloves off would see a large scale WMD development and that would change the whole world order.

You are shifting the goal post now. In global calculus, many are American allies to begin with. And among others, not many want to commit suicide for others in a great war.

North Korea defeating US in a war? Absolutely.

WMDs cannot be mass produced with talks. Scientific base and knowledge is needed. This is also feasible in peace time. North Korea did not acquire WMDs in months but took a long time with Russian and Chinese component transfers.

 

[thetutle]

You are shifting the goal post now.

WMDs cannot be mass produced with talks. Scientific base and knowledge is needed. This is also feasible in peace time.

Not many want to commit suicide for another party.

you brought up Japan, and I think no, America could not repeat the Japan scenario despite its great strength. Primarily because it would lead to a total destruction of its own world order because other players would take decisive steps to prevent America doing what it did to Japan and that level of total destruction and subjugation.

So, no I dont believe America could "take the gloves off" as you suggested.

 

[Goritoes]

Well, you don't get to be strong by staying out of conflict, that is what WW1 has taught the American. Back in Cold War. The West and The Soviet believe a different version of Power, the West believe in projecting power by assertion, Soviet believe in Projecting power by appearance. And that has not change since, and we come out ahead of Cold war only reenforce the idea power by assertion is the way to project power.

But you can assert power in modern day without going into the war itself, US AC carriers are there to project power and a warning to other players to not enter the war when US has been officially providing weapons to Israel, that's supporting allies and showing off muscles but also Hypocrisy.
We are not living in WW1/2 era, this is modern day and the weapons are 10x if not more deadlier than before, you'd know way better than I ever will cause you served and I didn't.

Coming from a Political Science background (Many people forget I do have a degree in Politician Science) you will understand the path of democracy is there are always two camps. You please one, and you enrage the other, there are no balance on the middle, the needle swing between the two groups, and that's we have 2 parties policy.

In this case, one group think Israeli is the oppressor, and one group think Israel being attack, and the latter group win because that group have more influence, that is the basis of government, it's the same whether you are talking about China, US, or ISIS (If you can call that a government) I mean, there are always someone believe something and trust is the last thing on their mind, and to most of us, it's not even bothered. The issue here is, you see one thing, 10 people see other, and you are asking why the government listened to the 10 people and not you. That's the entire issue here, this is just how government work, can you please the Israeli and Palestinian at the same time? Probably, with a very complex solution, but to achieve that, you need people to propel that into an equation, and most of the time, one side didn't want to cooperate with another, and in the end, the side with bigger pull always win. The different between the US and China is, that needle can change in the US, again, if there are enough people buying the Palestinian view, then the US government will change its course, it won't happen in China or ISIS. that ideology is the base of the policy or what the government did.

This is not about US being sectarian, this is not about US being a government, and it have to follow MAJORITY want, by majority, I don't mean everyone, but the sponsor. US is not a majority government, most people forgot that, being represented by "majority" of population does not guarantee a term in the office, which mean whoever represent the people held the power, NOT the people themselves.

Fair point but thing is I am not asking to move their needle towards the other side, I want US to stay neutral cause its not their fight and if they are putting their weight behind one side than don't use your military might to stop others, that's blackmailing. As far as support is concern that is unfair because Israel's support comes from Christians and Elite and media houses who are mostly run by People from Jewish descent, Blinken is a Jew which I learned not long ago, I doubt he holds any sympathy towards Muslims. Biden is on Record saying that if there was no Israel we will build one, so you have a Govt run by religiously motivated charged people who (most likely) despise Arabs for not Political but religious reasons while we are suppose to believe that USA govt doesn't build it foreign policy based on religious grounds. As far as solution for this issue is concerned yes it maybe hard and difficult but then its not a new thing now is it? every solution for a border dispute is hard but this is not about solution for this issue, right now my disappointment over US govt is that they are providing bombs to Israel and stand silent over human rights violation and UN laws, and we are told by same US/Western countries that every other nation must follow UN charter and Geneva conventions and anyone who breaks it are evil, but not if your civilians are dying at the hands of enemies so Hamas itself is within its right to kill Israeli civilians cause to them they (Israel)started the war. That's why I draw the line over civilians that, no civilians should harmed regardless of their faith/color/nationality, I know its more like a fantasy but this onslaught can be stopped and avoided, maybe something has changed in USA and they want to make some changes in Middle East? One thing for sure that current US govt and top leadership are giving me very Joker on Steroids type vibes.

The issue here is, you need a reason why, otherwise it's not going to happen.

I mean, why the US government want to manipulate the people, they aren't just doing this because you think so, or you say so, there has to be a reason behind that, and as I explained, Muslim group didn't have the same pull of Jewish Group, and that's where the allegiance is going to lies.

On the other hand, media and audience goes hand in hand, you need to have an audience want something to be able to manipulating them into it, I mean if you are left wing media, and have left wing audience, you can't and it's rather pointless to try to manipulate right wing value on them, media gave the audience what they wanted, and in turn coax the government into their own ideology, not the otherway around, again, and I will let you have 3 guess which side control the media, the Jewish or the Muslim?

Can't disagree with that... not that I like it but this is the sad reality.

Only that this is NOT going to happen like that, again, as I explained on Sunday, this is not how US work, you can't just say "why not just stay out of it for a change" I don't want to argue what yours view is, so again, I am going to say I will have to agree to disagree with it, it's just that, this is not going to go there because there are lack of support of the course, it's sad that many people have to die but this is the ground reality here. Again, you can think of this whatever you choose to think, that does not mean what you think is right or wrong, that's just that your thinking is not the general idea the government is going for, that is how it is in the US since WW1.

Well I understand your point, of course its not going to be things like I or you wanted, the Govt functions differently and there are many factors that they (govt) based their decisions on either joining or staying out of any conflict, I think the reason why I feel disappointed more because moving here to USA, talking to people and realizing many people also are against US interventions and wars, they are fed up of it. Also, back from Pakistan you read and joke about the control the Jewish lobby had over Congress and its leader but this is first time I have seen that lobby in its full force, Only God can help those People in Gaza, And TBH I never thought or had any hope that any oppressed people will get justices in this world, Palestinians have to just face this brutal one side onslaught until they are completely broken or defeated, but What comes after that will not be pleasant for them as well.

 

[Total Destruction]

Great point, a Muslim coalition force needs to be sent to Gaza so border can be controlled. Atleast Israel will then stop harming Palestinians. Last time Erdoğan suggested this but Hamas said any army that enters gaza will be treated as invasion. Immature decision by hamas.

Hamas want the egyptians.
Ive suggested before in 2012 in a famous arab defense forum to establish an egyptian military base over there, obviously i was attacked by some faggots who used to support mubarak.

Egyptian army mostly is corrupt ( the leadership) but small ranks are on gaza side.

 

[LeGenD]

you brought up Japan, and I think no, America could not repeat the Japan scenario despite its great strength. Primarily because it would lead to a total destruction of its own world order because other players would take decisive steps to prevent America doing what it did to Japan and that level of total destruction and subjugation.

So, no I dont believe America could "take the gloves off" as you suggested.

I was in the process of editing my previous post but I will repeat my points again.

In global calculus, many are American allies to begin with. And among others, not many want to commit suicide for others in a great war.

North Korea defeating US in a war? Absolutely.

WMDs cannot be mass produced with talks. Scientific base and knowledge is needed. This is also feasible in peace time. North Korea did not acquire WMDs in months but took a long time with Russian and Chinese component transfers.

People also assumed that US will not challenge Russia in Ukraine when it did not in Syria. Now you can see it.

US can devastate any country and get away with it because of its global position and leverage points. Do not be under illusion. North Korea was close to finding out in 2017 but saner voices de-escalated tensions. Trump openly threatened North Korea in a UN session and all watched in silence. Nobody wants to be a part of someone's madness.

I am keeping this short because WE are going off-topic here.

So get back to topic.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Hezbollah reputation will be damaged after this war if they don’t take part

Israel is a different beast. Hamas & Hezbollah are not regular armies but guerilla forces. They don't have air power, They cannot protect their people. The mobilization of this level of Israeli forces is above pay grade of Hezbullah.

Only thing that could deter Israel was unity in Islamic world which is nowhere to be seen unfortunately.

 

[Hack-Hook]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712943385424642281

Let see.
I didn't make the claim.
Even our politician didn't Mae such claim.
As far as I'm aware Hamas also didn't make such claim.
But Biden and Netanyahu showed a Dog and claimed it's a burned Israeli baby.
That in itself says a lot.

ومكروا ومكر الله والله خير الماكرين
​

Every single of the atrocities you lot attribute to Hamas proven to be wrong. As a matter of fact not only it proven lie it also proven it actually committed by Israel occupation & oppression forces against the people of Gazza
From beheading children to gutting pregnant women to beheading neonates to targeting kindergarten and hospitals...
You name it and you can't prove a single of them commit by Palestinian but there are tons of evidence that Israel occupation & oppression forces commit it

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Hezbollah reputation will be damaged after this war if they don’t take part

Hebollah is supported by Iran while Hamas is Qatar's puppy.

Qatar is the strongest ally of the US.

Israel is using Hamas to annex Gaza.

 

[thetutle]

In a similar way, Israel if it acts unreasonably and kills I dont know 1 million Palestinians, it will only lead to a change in the global order quicker. All the regional players will know they could be next at the slightest whim of Israel and will do whatever it takes to preserve themselves.

In such a scenario it would be suicidal of counties to not have a second strike capacity with credible WMD's.

So I dont think this Gaza attack will change much or lead to dramatic level of casualties for this very reason (like above 25,000). Israel doesnt want its neighbours to be in fear for their existence as it can only lead to proliferation of more dangerous weapons and a change in the global order.

 

[LeGenD]

In a similar way, Israel if it acts unreasonably and kills I dont know 1 million Palestinians, it will only lead to a change in the global order quicker. All the regional players will know they could be next at the slightest whim of Israel and will do whatever it takes to preserve themselves.

In such a scenario it would be suicidal of counties to not have a second strike capacity with credible WMD's.

So I dont think this Gaza attack will change much or lead to dramatic level of casualties for this very reason (like above 25,000). Israel doesnt want its neighbours to be in fear for their existence as it can only lead to proliferation of more dangerous weapons and a change in the global order.

Easier said than done. Israel is making sure that Syria is not able to challenge it. Hezbollah is watching the show.

Egypt and Turkey = do I have to tell where these two stand? How these two make ends meet? Not blaming either side but each have its own challenges and motive.

If Iran gets a nuke, we have to get one: Saudi crown prince

Mohammed bin Salman says getting "closer" to Israel normalisation.

www.dawn.com

You do not understand regional dynamics and motives well enough. Who is thinking what.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

In a similar way, Israel if it acts unreasonably and kills I dont know 1 million Palestinians, it will only lead to a change in the global order quicker. All the regional players will know they could be next at the slightest whim of Israel and will do whatever it takes to preserve themselves.

In such a scenario it would be suicidal of counties to not have a second strike capacity with credible WMD's.

So I dont think this Gaza attack will change much or lead to dramatic level of casualties for this very reason (like above 25,000). Israel doesnt want its neighbours to be in fear for their existence as it can only lead to proliferation of more dangerous weapons and a change in the global order.

Israel will annex North Gaza and South Gaza with all the Gaza Palestinians will be merged with Egypt.

 

[TopGun786]

That's why people like you are stujpid.

Thousand or even hundreds of thousands of people is going to die, and all you care is to "trash someone pride"? What are you? 8? I mean if you think some post here on an anonymous forum is going to hurt someone on the other side of the computer, then you sir are stupider than I thought. I mean, it's like you are a grown *** man and start calling 5 years old girl in a park "fat" trying to make her mad......

But then we all know the level of intelligence you process here. I mean do whatever you want to do lol You can think I am REALLY hurting on the inside by that, I mean, that's you

Again trying to "spread" intellect here.
I did not ask for that.
Keep that to yourself.
Leave us how many we are there.
I just asked you to keep your hypocrite face away which you are not doing.

 

[Falcon29]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1713004039598751887