Gaza-Israel Conflict | October 2023

[Parwaz e Ishq]

Muslims have attacked Christians for centuries,
so Allah finally sent the USAF as punishment.
Then Muslims started killing the millions you refer to.

Rashidun Caliphate & others never massacred Christian civilians.

Richard massacred all Palestinian Muslims including women and children. Ayubi then reconquered Palestine & he didn't commit massacre.

 

[LeGenD]

we do not but much less then western world did and do to the muslims, in last 20 years about ten million killed directly or indirectly by west.

Both US and Russia have done wrong to be fair.

Let's go back in time to understand the unfortunate sequence of events that led to War On Terror saga:

Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan to topple Hafizullah Amin government in 1979. What was the crime of this government? It desired a bilateral relationship with the US while maintaining a bilateral relationship with Soviet Union (balancing act). But a sovereign country cannot decide the way forward for itself, right? So the deed was done and a pro-Soviet government was established in Afghanistan. About a year later, Iraq invaded Iran in 1980. Iraq was close to Soviet Union at the time.

These developments spooked Pakistan. Imagine having to deal with a country like India on one side of the border and suddenly Soviet Union shows up on the other side of the border. And Iran and Iraq are fighting each other as well. Pakistan felt that it would be next and decided to support Afghan resistance groups. Pakistan also reached out to its traditional allies such as US and Saudi Arabia for assistance. Saudi Arabia provided funds and fighters while US launched Operation Cyclone to help create a fighting force that could handle Soviet Union in Afghanistan. This fighting force was dubbed "the Mujahideen."

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan continued till 1988 but produced a chain of cascading effects such as a devastating civil war in Afghanistan (1988 - 1996), affected Pakistani culture, and set the stage for emergence of the Al-Qaeda Network that committed atrocities around the world including 9/11 and motivated US/NATO to invade Afghanistan and settle scores in other Islamic countries as well (2001 - 2021). A group of Mujahideen founded Al-Qaeda Network in 1988.

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 triggered a cycle of corruption, mischief, and violence that led to emergence of new actors in the region and concluded with Saddam regime biting the dust in 2006, Qaddafi regime biting the dust in 2011, Afghan Taliban renouncing support for Al-Qaeda Network in 2020, defeat of Al-Qaeda Network in 2022, and defeat of ISIL movement in the Middle East in 2022.

Soviet influence and invasion of Afghanistan have affected moral fabric of Muslims in modern times in alarming ways, but some have overlooked this reality.

I can understand an Iranian not holding US in high regard. However, every country should be fairly judged in discussions.

US has fought for Muslims as well. US made it possible for Afghanistan (and Pakistan) to defeat Soviet Union in the 1980s, protected Saudi Arabia and liberated Kuwait from Iraq in 1991, and legitimized independence of Bosnia from Yugoslavia in 1996. American interests were involved in these developments for sure but this is how countries work for each other.

I have pointed out the above for all readers to understand that global developments are not black and white. Any member is allowed to condemn a country for its wrongdoings but one should be mindful of the Forum Rules in posts. Some tend to swing too far in their blind hatred for the West, this is not acceptable. Judge all sides fairly.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

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[Foinikas]

No, Europeans and Americans were afraid that Saddam would lose the war with Iran, so they gave Saddam chemical weapons.

No,it more of an opportunistic thing. Everybody made money out of this war. European countries,Americans,Asians,other Arabs,the Eastern Bloc and non-aligned countries. Everyone. We sold Phantom spare parts to Iran through an intermediary country.

 

[dBSPL]

Rashidun Caliphate & others never massacred Christian civilians.

Richard massacred all Palestinian Muslims including women and children. Ayubi then reconquered Palestine & he didn't commit massacre.

They also slaughtered the Orthodox as heretics, patched their property, burned their cities. One of the reasons behind the Turks' rapid domination of the Balkans was the European view of the Orthodox.

 

[HGV]

Honestly I think Iran will sacrifice Hamas for Hezbollah and not get involved

They will only activate Hezbollah of Iran comes under threat

They won’t do it for Hamas unfortunately

The problem is that Hamas allegedly carried out their attack without informing Hezbollah or Iran. They killed a lot of civilians and made a lot of mistakes. They cannot now expect Iran and Hezbollah to suddenly drag their country/people to war and devastation to rescue Hamas from their own unilateral actions that they did not tell anyone about.

Nonetheless, Hezbollah is engaged in escalating cross-border conflict with Israel, striking military targets inside Israel multiple times every day. That could escalate into a larger conflict (indeed, the exchange of fire appears to be incrementally increasing in intensity every day).

 

[aziqbal]

They also slaughtered the Orthodox as heretics, patched their property, burned their cities. One of the reasons behind the Turks' rapid domination of the Balkans was the European view of the Orthodox.

And during the crusades they demolished Constantinople 200 years before the Turks took it in 1453

They weekend the Orthodox Church and empire Turks made easy pickings

 

[lightning F57]

Terrorist believe they are fighting for Islam

Don't you get tired of posting BS all day.

Hamas are fighting for their freedom for a Palestinian state not for religious reasons.

Muslim countries in the last few hundred years have not been invading Christian western countries its been the reversal. Christian countries or shall I say secular now have killed more people than any other peoples or empires in history. Your BS doesn't work because you are either ignorant or plain lying.

 

[mulj]

Both US and Russia have done wrong to be fair.

Let's go back in time to understand the unfortunate sequence of events that led to War On Terror saga:

Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan to topple Hafizullah Amin government in 1979. What was the crime of this government? It desired a bilateral relationship with the US while maintaining a bilateral relationship with Soviet Union (balancing act). But a sovereign country cannot decide the way forward for itself, right? So the deed was done and a pro-Soviet government was established in Afghanistan. About a year later, Iraq invaded Iran in 1980. Iraq was close to Soviet Union at the time.

These developments spooked Pakistan. Imagine having to deal with a country like India on one side of the border and suddenly Soviet Union shows up on the other side of the border. And Iran and Iraq are fighting each other as well. Pakistan felt that it would be next and decided to support Afghan resistance groups. Pakistan also reached out to its traditional allies such as US and Saudi Arabia for assistance. Saudi Arabia provided funds and fighters while US launched Operation Cyclone to help create a fighting force that could handle Soviet Union in Afghanistan. This fighting force was dubbed "the Mujahideen."

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan continued till 1988 but produced a chain of cascading effects such as a devastating civil war in Afghanistan (1988 - 1996), affected Pakistani culture, and set the stage for emergence of the Al-Qaeda Network that committed atrocities around the world including 9/11 and motivated US/NATO to invade Afghanistan and settle scores in other Islamic countries as well (2001 - 2021). A group of Mujahideen founded Al-Qaeda Network in 1988.

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 triggered a cycle of corruption, mischief, and violence that led to emergence of new actors in the region and concluded with Saddam regime biting the dust in 2006, Qaddafi regime biting the dust in 2011, Afghan Taliban renouncing support for Al-Qaeda Network in 2020, defeat of Al-Qaeda Network in 2022, and defeat of ISIL movement in the Middle East in 2022.

Soviet influence and invasion of Afghanistan have affected moral fabric of Muslims in modern times in alarming ways, but some have overlooked this reality.

I can understand an Iranian not holding US in high regard. However, every country should be fairly judged in discussions.

US has fought for Muslims as well. US made it possible for Afghanistan (and Pakistan) to defeat Soviet Union in the 1980s, protected Saudi Arabia and liberated Kuwait from Iraq in 1991, and legitimized independence of Bosnia from Yugoslavia in 1996. American interests were involved in these developments for sure but this is how countries work for each other.

I have pointed out the above for all readers to understand that global developments are not black and white. Any member is allowed to condemn a country for its wrongdoings but one should be mindful of the Forum Rules in posts. Some tend to swing too far in their blind hatred for the West, this is not acceptable. Judge all sides fairly.

thank you for your free lesson, no irony by my side, i will just shortly reply, we have to make CHOICE and stick with it in continuity in order to gain any credibility, i am afraid or hopeful that time has came.

 

[HGV]

No,it more of an opportunistic thing. Everybody made money out of this war. European countries,Americans,Asians,other Arabs,the Eastern Bloc and non-aligned countries. Everyone. We sold Phantom spare parts to Iran through an intermediary country.

You are wrong. By 1982 the momentum of the war had shifted and Iran successfully repelled the massive Iraqi invasion into Iran. Saddam accepted the failure of his invasion and offered peace, but did not offer to pay compensation, so Iran refused and vowed to fight on into Baghdad.

Then the war entered a new phase where Iran counter-invaded into Iraq and Iraq was mostly on the defensive in their territory. That was a clear moment when the perception of the war changed around the world and the West began to fear that Iraq would fall and Iran's revolutionary government would successfully export its Islamic Revolution to Iraq. As a result, they began to resupply Iraq with huge quantities of weapons and even assisted them in the use of chemical weapons (and shielded them from consequences at the UNSC), which hundreds of thousands of Iranians still suffer the effects of today (Iran also had chemical weapons, but Khomeini refused to use them even in response to the Iraqi attacks).

Iraq's use of chemical weapons stalled Iran's offensives into Iraq and the war became a stalemate. The US then shot down an Iranian civil airliner over the Persian Gulf, killing 300 civilians, and refused to apologise (instead awarding the captain of the US ship responsible a medal of honour). The US also directly attacked the Iranian Navy in 1988 (after a US ship struck an Iranian mine in the Persian Gulf, which was aimed at shutting down oil tanker traffic in the Persian Gulf), devastating Iran's small and war-weary navy. After these events, the Iranian leadership realised the West would not stop at anything to prevent an Iranian victory, and they reluctantly agreed to end the war (Khomeini 'drank the chalice of poison').

@Mehdipersian @Hack-Hook feel free to offer any corrections to my brief account of the imposed war above

 

[Tamerlane]

Muslims have attacked Christians for centuries,
so Allah finally sent the USAF as punishment.
Then Muslims started killing the millions you refer to.

Who started it? During the Crusades between 1100 and 1400 AD European pseudo-Christians were slaughtering and eating Muslims for 200 years. They didn’t spare Eastern Christians or Jews either.

I call them pseudo-Christians because when the Vikings became Christians they still behaved like barbarian Vikings, slaughtering, pillaging and raping.

To be fair, when the barbarian Mongols became Muslims, they continued to behave like barbarians. My namesake, Tamerlane, was an example of a barbarian Mongol Muslim.

When Muslims get a chance, they tend to elect people that immediately abandon democracy.

The mark of a democrat is not that he gets power through elections, but that he resigns when his popularity is below that of competition. Assad, Saddam and Gadaffi should have resigned.

Muslims countries have a lack of democracy, which is what I’ve been arguing. It suits the Anglo-Zionists as it is easier to control dictatorships.

The hypocritical West has been overthrowing democracies in Muslim countries for decades. In 1953 the elected leader of Iran, ‏Mosaddegh, was overthrown and the unelected Shah was installed. In Egypt the West organized the overthrow of the democratically elected president Morsi. In Pakistan the US used the generals to overthrow the elected PM Imran Khan. The internet has information on dozens of democratic governments overthrown by the US and its minions.

That’s why the Muslim masses need to overthrow Western puppets and elect their own rulers.

 

[HGV]

Palestinian in Gaza slams lack of support from the Arab world

https://twitter.com/x/status/1714990203423588549

"14 days of war on Gaza, without water, electricity, food, or medicine, and the entire Arab world watched. 11 days, and no one dared to bring a piece of bread into Gaza. What a great shame for a silent Arab nation."

The Egyptian regime still has not sent a single truck of humanitarian aid into Gaza. They are 100% complicit in the starvation of 2 million Palestinians in Gaza and every single person affiliated with that regime is going straight to hell.

 

[Baba Google]

Honestly I think Iran will sacrifice Hamas for Hezbollah and not get involved

They will only activate Hezbollah of Iran comes under threat

They won’t do it for Hamas unfortunately

Sunni are nonexistent Arab world died decades ago expect nothing

Only Al Azhar in Egypt can do this which is under tight control

Sunnis has to stand up man and fight for their own, Iran will do nothing until Israel makes a mistake against lands governed by Shias or Sacred to Shias. Whats happening between Israel and Hezbollah right now is similar to what happens at LOC between Pakistan and India.

Israel has to go all out on Lebanon, maybe only then can we expect serious response from Hezbollah and even then Hezbollah will fight for their own interests. Palestine is not as holy place for Shias as it is for Sunnis. Its an Arabian Sunni cause - I as a Shia can only help you fight your war, I as a Shia cannot fight your war.

 

[ZeGerman]

Why don't you take back your jews?

Because the jews sought a place of refuge after the holocaust, and went to where they had religious and ancestral ties. As well as a large Middle east jewish population living there?
many also bought lands.

There was also no palestinian nation pre 1947. It was british mandate.
Arabs living in british controlled middle east got PLENTY land.

And now we have a situation where generations of israelis grew up and rooted there. Demanding their forced expulsion is just asking for ethnic cleansing.


and lastly, you really want to justify ethnic cleansing based on borders from generations back? How about we apply the same on Constantinople and the many areas christianity and christians were expelled from by force or under duress?
Shall i start to bring “hamas style freedom fighting” to any random muslim i see on the street?

Can you muslims not think of a solution that does not mean genocide or ethnic cleansing of the “non-believer” for a change??

 

[Corax]

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The Israelis definitely seem like cowards, all they can do is drop heavy ordnance from the air on a civilian population, how noble and brave of them.

We saw how their infantry performed without armour and air support.

If they were actually trying to wipe out Hamas and not the Palestinians in Gaza, they should have avoided a heavy air campaign and instead gone in on the ground, draw Hamas to THEM, that way, they can separate Hamas from the civilians. What are they afraid of? Hamas has no armour, just infantry, the Israelis have heavy armour and air cover. Why are they such cowards?