Future of SD-10 in PAF?

[araz]

Your problem is you shoot before you bother to read. Where did I even mention meteor. Can you point me to where I mentioned meteor in my earlier posts. I could not have been clearer in my second post as well as the first about my reasons for writing what I wtote. To ease matters further I again explained myself and yet you go off on a tangent and spoil a whole thread. I know who will or wont sell to us but we cannot procure it due to difficulties which I have highlighted. So bother to read first and then respond.
A

 

[Trying to be honest]

I would guess germany would be pain point for eurofighter or meteor arrival than uk. From pure economic point of view think of airbus, car sale esp the luxury marques. There are pressure points which india can use. Unless china actively bats for pakistan with the germans. But then again Chinese would wantto sell their own wares.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Your problem is you shoot before you bother to read. Where did I even mention meteor. Can you point me to where I mentioned meteor in my earlier posts. I could not have been clearer in my second post as well as the first about my reasons for writing what I wtote. To ease matters further I again explained myself and yet you go off on a tangent and spoil a whole thread. I know who will or wont sell to us but we cannot procure it due to difficulties which I have highlighted. So bother to read first and then respond.
A

which other bvraam do we have for sale? theres only one. and skyflash dont count as thats old and not in production anymore. you clearly mention the uk having difficulties selling pakistan a missile to replace the sd-10 . the sd-10 being a bvraam i worked out you meant the meteor. the asraam is a short-mid range ir guided missiles so that dont count.

you said you know who will and wont sell pakistan missiles, how do you know? do you work in the airforce? knowing someone who works there is not good enough as they wont go telling the public what there upto. and would likely miss-guide you to throw you of your scent.

so if you weren't referring to the meteor what were you referring to from the uk?

 

[araz]

which other bvraam do we have for sale? theres only one. and skyflash dont count as thats old and not in production anymore. you clearly mention the uk having difficulties selling pakistan a missile to replace the sd-10 . the sd-10 being a bvraam i worked out you meant the meteor. the asraam is a short-mid range ir guided missiles so that dont count.

you said you know who will and wont sell pakistan missiles, how do you know? do you work in the airforce? knowing someone who works there is not good enough as they wont go telling the public what there upto. and would likely miss-guide you to throw you of your scent.

so if you weren't referring to the meteor what were you referring to from the uk?

OK detective Holmes so solve the next mystery, ie in the current environment with 2- 3 members having active dealings with India and at least one having previously denied offensive capabilities to PAF, how do you think a request for meteor will go down with the 5 partners involved in its development/ deployment You never read my post did you? I can tell from your response that you did not. Secondly you know how the US indirectly twists various nations wrists so how do you think it would react to the UK selling us the Meteor when the AIM 120D or even C7 has not been offered to us. Thirdly Captain Obvious might want to explain what the reaction of the EU would be to selling the meteor to a nation known to having very close ties with the Chinese who could potentially be their next adversary.
Who I am and what I do is none of your concern and neither am I revealing my credentials on an open forum. For that matter who the heck are you to be making such tall claims about UK selling meteor to PAF.WHAT ARE YOUR CREDENTIALS?
A

 

[Blue Marlin]

OK detective Holmes so solve the next mystery, ie in the current environment with 2- 3 members having active dealings with India and at least one having previously denied offensive capabilities to PAF, how do you think a request for meteor will go down with the 5 partners involved in its development/ deployment You never read my post did you? I can tell from your response that you did not. Secondly you know how the US indirectly twists various nations wrists so how do you think it would react to the UK selling us the Meteor when the AIM 120D or even C7 has not been offered to us. Thirdly Captain Obvious might want to explain what the reaction of the EU would be to selling the meteor to a nation known to having very close ties with the Chinese who could potentially be their next adversary.
Who I am and what I do is none of your concern and neither am I revealing my credentials on an open forum. For that matter who the heck are you to be making such tall claims about UK selling meteor to PAF.WHAT ARE YOUR CREDENTIALS?
A

i did read your post, yes indeed the meteor is a joint weapon just like the typhoons. which is why you go through a government deal. can you imagine how much head ache you'd go through talking to multiple partners over the same thing? so in essence mbda is not selling weapons to pakistan they are selling them to a partner government and then onto pakistan. the saudis went through the british government for their typhoons. just using that an an example here.ok so i never mentioned going through a g2g deal to get the missile...... my bad most of your purchases are g2g deals so hence the assumption.
yes the united state does pull strings to prevent deals going through. which is why people lobby. the indians are good at it. as for the aim-120c7...... it not a question of being offered but more about asking instead. heck the c8 or 120d is already available for export. Hillary likely to the next president and wanting to keep the afganistan war going she would keep pakstan happy and im sure the 120d would be available but im not sure via fms.
as for china vs europe.....yeah ok
your the one going on about how you claim to know who will and wont sell you kit. i have no idea who you are. but a good guess would be a middle age british pakistani somewhere in london probably who moved here in the 80's.

oh and as for my credentials, i worked for bae systems for about 3 years and have close friends there.

 

[MastanKhan]

i did read your post, yes indeed the meteor is a joint weapon just like the typhoons. which is why you go through a government deal. can you imagine how much head ache you'd go through talking to multiple partners over the same thing? so in essence mbda is not selling weapons to pakistan they are selling them to a partner government and then onto pakistan. the saudis went through the british government for their typhoons. just using that an an example here.ok so i never mentioned going through a g2g deal to get the missile...... my bad most of your purchases are g2g deals so hence the assumption.
yes the united state does pull strings to prevent deals going through. which is why people lobby. the indians are good at it. as for the aim-120c7...... it not a question of being offered but more about asking instead. heck the c8 or 120d is already available for export. Hillary likely to the next president and wanting to keep the afganistan war going she would keep pakstan happy and im sure the 120d would be available but im not sure via fms.
as for china vs europe.....yeah ok
your the one going on about how you claim to know who will and wont sell you kit. i have no idea who you are. but a good guess would be a middle age british pakistani somewhere in london probably who moved here in the 80's.

oh and as for my credentials, i worked for bae systems for about 3 years and have close friends there.

Hi,

You are arguing with someone--who has never ever offered a solution---a strategy--- a game plan---a deceit---deception or any kind of larceny needed in procuring a major weapons system in a timely manner---.

This guy is a total total apologist---who does nothing else than apologize for failed options---.

I remember @Sinopakfriend one time asked him for a strategy and game plan---and it was same old apologetic sob story---a total white wash---.

Now---coming back to the topic---what has happened in the last few days----it becomes more evident and clear that the paf has sabotaged the security and progress of pakistan more so than any enemy of pakistan could possibly do that---.

Until and unless pakistan makes a packaged deal including saudi arabia for EFT---I do not think that there is a single western platform available to pakistan at this time---with a full complimentary package---.

But leave the western package aside---only if the Paf had procured atleast 2 sqdrn's of J10 C's and 2 sqdrn's of JH7B's awhile ago---which would have doubled the current strength of the air force---the threats that pakista is facing today would not have happened---.

Why do we have to go for a nuclear war---why could the Paf not raise the conventional level of force---?

 

[Blue Marlin]

Hi,

You are arguing with someone--who has never ever offered a solution---a strategy--- a game plan---a deceit---deception or any kind of larceny needed in procuring a major weapons system in a timely manner---.

This guy is a total total apologist---who does nothing else than apologize for failed options---.

I remember @Sinopakfriend one time asked him for a strategy and game plan---and it was same old apologetic sob story---a total white wash---.

Now---coming back to the topic---what has happened in the last few days----it becomes more evident and clear that the paf has sabotaged the security and progress of pakistan more so than any enemy of pakistan could possibly do that---.

Until and unless pakistan makes a packaged deal including saudi arabia for EFT---I do not think that there is a single western platform available to pakistan at this time---with a full complimentary package---.

But leave the western package aside---only if the Paf had procured atleast 2 sqdrn's of J10 C's and 2 sqdrn's of JH7B's awhile ago---which would have doubled the current strength of the air force---the threats that pakista is facing today would not have happened---.

Why do we have to go for a nuclear war---why could the Paf not raise the conventional level of force---?

araz is a good guy but what he said is consistant with what a lot of other pakistanis say so it not some kind of attack on him. usually he's good its just this specific case.

the typhoon is the only option for pakistan to counter the rafale which is being signed for tomorrow it is expensive but the tranche 3a is £85 million flyaway which is more than the rafale but the weak stirling would say now would be a good time to buy.

the j10b/c is not as advance as there european counterparts yet so thats not an option bu the jh7 is an avaliable attack aircraft but its very old.

pakistan would either need a stop gap until a 5th gen jet is avaliable. or upgrade the jf-17 with an aesa and a some better bvraams.
honestly a jf-17 with and aes and some potent bvraams would be a deadly combo as the jf-17 small rcs and the aesa would make any fighter to think twice. even the rafale.

they dont have the money for a stop gap so a the block 3 with an aesa and some better bvraams would be a good solution.
what do you think @Bilal Khan 777 ?

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

araz is a good guy but what he said is consistant with what a lot of other pakistanis say so it not some kind of attack on him. usually he's good its just this specific case.

the typhoon is the only option for pakistan to counter the rafale which is being signed for tomorrow it is expensive but the tranche 3a is £85 million flyaway which is more than the rafale but the weak stirling would say now would be a good time to buy.

the j10b/c is not as advance as there european counterparts yet so thats not an option bu the jh7 is an avaliable attack aircraft but its very old.

pakistan would either need a stop gap until a 5th gen jet is avaliable. or upgrade the jf-17 with an aesa and a some better bvraams.
honestly a jf-17 with and aes and some potent bvraams would be a deadly combo as the jf-17 small rcs and the aesa would make any fighter to think twice. even the rafale.

they dont have the money for a stop gap so a the block 3 with an aesa and some better bvraams would be a good solution.
what do you think @Bilal Khan 777 ?

This was exactly my point. JF17 with AESA and extended range BVRs is the solution. However, some people take the political angle and start spewing hate towards PAF and calling it incompetent. Regarding EFT, it is not a questions of money, but the question of availability. EFT has never been offered to PAF. If and when it is offered, PAF will find the money to buy it. Coming back to the topic, I believe the the RVV series AAMs should be solicited, as Pakistan has the ability to integrate them.

oh and as for my credentials, i worked for bae systems for about 3 years and have close friends there.

MAI or ES? What level? Message me privately.

 

[MastanKhan]

This was exactly my point. JF17 with AESA and extended range BVRs is the solution. However, some people take the political angle and start spewing hate towards PAF and calling it incompetent. Regarding EFT, it is not a questions of money, but the question of availability. EFT has never been offered to PAF. If and when it is offered, PAF will find the money to buy it. Coming back to the topic, I believe the the RVV series AAMs should be solicited, as Pakistan has the ability to integrate them.





MAI or ES? What level? Message me privately.

Hi,

Those are blue marlins credentials---.

I still remain a car salesman---.

araz is a good guy but what he said is consistant with what a lot of other pakistanis say so it not some kind of attack on him. usually he's good its just this specific case.

the typhoon is the only option for pakistan to counter the rafale which is being signed for tomorrow it is expensive but the tranche 3a is £85 million flyaway which is more than the rafale but the weak stirling would say now would be a good time to buy.

the j10b/c is not as advance as there european counterparts yet so thats not an option bu the jh7 is an avaliable attack aircraft but its very old.

pakistan would either need a stop gap until a 5th gen jet is avaliable. or upgrade the jf-17 with an aesa and a some better bvraams.
honestly a jf-17 with and aes and some potent bvraams would be a deadly combo as the jf-17 small rcs and the aesa would make any fighter to think twice. even the rafale.

they dont have the money for a stop gap so a the block 3 with an aesa and some better bvraams would be a good solution.
what do you think @Bilal Khan 777 ?

araz is a good guy but what he said is consistant with what a lot of other pakistanis say so it not some kind of attack on him. usually he's good its just this specific case.

the typhoon is the only option for pakistan to counter the rafale which is being signed for tomorrow it is expensive but the tranche 3a is £85 million flyaway which is more than the rafale but the weak stirling would say now would be a good time to buy.

the j10b/c is not as advance as there european counterparts yet so thats not an option bu the jh7 is an avaliable attack aircraft but its very old.

pakistan would either need a stop gap until a 5th gen jet is avaliable. or upgrade the jf-17 with an aesa and a some better bvraams.
honestly a jf-17 with and aes and some potent bvraams would be a deadly combo as the jf-17 small rcs and the aesa would make any fighter to think twice. even the rafale.

they dont have the money for a stop gap so a the block 3 with an aesa and some better bvraams would be a good solution.
what do you think @Bilal Khan 777 ?

Hi,

It would take around 4-5 years for the indians to start getting the Rafale---.

For pakistan---within 2 years you can have a sqdrn of J10C's and within another 2---you can have a 2nd sqdrn---.

On parallel----you are getting the JF17's as well---BLK2---BLK3's in future---.

The time is over for playing a SAFE game for pakistan air force---. It needs to go out on the limb---.

For 3 billion dollars---the Paf can have 150 J10C's at 50 mil a pop with aesa----all the weapons systems that would be used on the JF17 would be used on the J10's---.

The problem here is that the speed at which the JF17's are being produced is very slow---this SPEED is more suitable to nations that do not have any threat---but when you are sitting on the verge of war since 2002---the thought process of the pakistanis & the Paf needs to change.

Just because an actual clash has been avoided---it does not mean the problem has dissipated---.

I would rather see 150 J10C's in paf colors than see 24 EFT's---.

2.5 billion for 150 J10C's and spend another 2 billion on EW suite and weapons---.

The readers need to understand one more time---an aircraft like the J10 is needed because it is available and it raises the overall power projection of the Paf in a shorter time and at a lower cost---.

An aesa equipped J10C is somewhere between the BLK52 and the BLK60---.

Again---our problem is that we do not have enough aircraft coming in at a faster pace to fill in the massive hole.

 

[aftab_s81]

@MastanKhan
The J-10C may well replace the role of our Mirages. I wonder if we can spend more than $4bn on a single Bakr Eid, why can't we spend that amount to protect our very country. One of the reason may be b/c Army sucks up most of the budget allocated for defense.

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan
The J-10C may well replace the role of our Mirages. I wonder if we can spend more than $4bn on a single Bakr Eid, why can't we spend that amount to protect our very country. One of the reason may be b/c Army sucks up most of the budget allocated for defense.

Hi,

That is not the case---the Paf has wasted a lots of opportunities----they all get seperate funds---plus extra funds for the aircraft for the Paf---.

 

[Blue Marlin]

This was exactly my point. JF17 with AESA and extended range BVRs is the solution. However, some people take the political angle and start spewing hate towards PAF and calling it incompetent. Regarding EFT, it is not a questions of money, but the question of availability. EFT has never been offered to PAF. If and when it is offered, PAF will find the money to buy it. Coming back to the topic, I believe the the RVV series AAMs should be solicited, as Pakistan has the ability to integrate them.





MAI or ES? What level? Message me privately.

instead of wait for an invitation, why dont you approach them or even open a tender (with only two options)
what is the rvv series. is that the r77?

 

[araz]

Hi,

You are arguing with someone--who has never ever offered a solution---a strategy--- a game plan---a deceit---deception or any kind of larceny needed in procuring a major weapons system in a timely manner---.

This guy is a total total apologist---who does nothing else than apologize for failed options---.

I remember @Sinopakfriend one time asked him for a strategy and game plan---and it was same old apologetic sob story---a total white wash---.

Now---coming back to the topic---what has happened in the last few days----it becomes more evident and clear that the paf has sabotaged the security and progress of pakistan more so than any enemy of pakistan could possibly do that---.

Until and unless pakistan makes a packaged deal including saudi arabia for EFT---I do not think that there is a single western platform available to pakistan at this time---with a full complimentary package---.

But leave the western package aside---only if the Paf had procured atleast 2 sqdrn's of J10 C's and 2 sqdrn's of JH7B's awhile ago---which would have doubled the current strength of the air force---the threats that pakista is facing today would not have happened---.

Why do we have to go for a nuclear war---why could the Paf not raise the conventional level of force---?

Mastan Khan
At least get some new lines to get a point across. I know you well and your view points. While I disagree with them I have always countered it with arguments. I would suggest you do the same. And please dont go off on one of your philosophical bullshit posts but give me some hard facts to talk about. Till then ------ Dont bother!!
A

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastan Khan
At least get some new lines to get a point across. I know you well and your view points. While I disagree with them I have always countered it with arguments. I would suggest you do the same. And please dont go off on one of your philosophical bullshit posts but give me some hard facts to talk about. Till then ------ Dont bother!!
A

Sir,

This is not a tv " DRAMA " where you got to listen to new lines to keep the level of excitement up---. This is a real scenario---real life---life and death situation---where if you don't acknowledge and correct your mistakes---you have serious problems---like now.

I don't have philosophical bs---. I talk about real issues---directions and how to approach and handle them---.

I mean to say---hanging Paf traitors does that sound like philosophical?

 

[rustom]

Hi,








Hi,



For 3 billion dollars---the Paf can have 150 J10C's at 50 mil a pop with aesa----all the weapons systems that would be used on the JF17 would be used on the J10's---.

3 billon dollars should give you 60 aircraft at 50 mil a POP. Math doesn't add up for 150. Just saying.