Future Chinese carrier-borne AEW: KJ-600 or KH-600

[vi-va]

 

[Deino]

View attachment 665537

Aren't these the same images as posted already?

 

[vi-va]

Aren't these the same images as posted already?

Oh, I just realize.

 

[sheik]

Some estimation on the size of KJ-600.
Also, based on the color of the radome, the radar might be rotating like on ZDK-03 and different from the fixed one on KJ-500.

 

[onebyone]

China's New Plane Sure Looks Like an American Hawkeye Knockoff

Kyle Mizokami
,
Popular Mechanics•September 1, 2020


From Popular Mechanics

• China's KJ-600 AEW&C plane reportedly made its first flight on August 29.
• The plane is designed to act as a flying radar station, detecting enemy missiles, ships, and aircraft.
• AEW planes also act as flying quarterbacks, coordinating offensive and defensive air missions.

China’s latest carrier aircraft may not be a fighter, but it will be the most important plane in the fleet. The new KJ-600 airborne early warning and control aircraft, which flew for this first time this weekend, will act as the unblinking eye of the fleet, detecting enemy threats far in advance and allowing a carrier to send its jets where they’re needed the most.
✈ You like badass planes. So do we. Let's nerd out over them together.
An aircraft carrier is a powerful, flexible air power platform, capable of both offensive and defensive missions thousands of miles from home. One of the biggest problems for carriers, however, is how to effectively utilize that air power. A carrier’s built-in radar can only see so far, from a few hundred miles at high altitude to two dozen miles or less at sea level.

During World War II, carrier task force commanders were often forced to make informed guesses where the enemy was, sometimes sending fighter patrols and bomber flights on wild goose chases that failed to make contact with the enemy.

Photo credit: MARIO GOLDMAN - Getty Images
The invention of the airborne early warning and control plane (AEW&C) solved that problem. AEW&C planes are large, unarmed aircraft that mount a powerful search radar on pylons above the fuselage. Two to three radar operators sit in the back of the plane, analyzing radar returns, keeping track of friendly and enemy forces, and vectoring friendly fighters and attack jets toward enemy forces. Today, the U.S. and French navies fly the E-2 Hawkeye, a proven platform in service since the 1960s.
The AEW&C’s importance in both offensive and defensive roles keeps planes and their crews busy. In the offense, a plane like the KJ-600 would fly alongside a flight of carrier-based fighters flying an anti-ship or strike mission against targets on the ground. The AEW&C plane would spot incoming enemy fighters, vectoring fighter escorts to intercept them before they could interfere with the mission. The KJ-600 could analyze multiple flights of enemy jets and determine the best way to deal with them.

Defense is where the KJ-600 will shine. An AEW&C plane can extend a carrier’s threat detection range by several hundred more miles simply by flying ahead of the carrier. The AEW&C plane’s ability to fly high and detect low-flying targets ensures it will spot sea-skimming anti-ship cruise missiles at far greater ranges than the 20 or so miles a ship-based radar will detect it.
➡ Make your inbox more awesome.
One particular new capability is the U.S. Navy’s ability to use its E-2D Hawkeye aircraft to provide cueing data to cruisers and destroyers, allowing them to launch air defense missiles like the SM-6 at anti-ship missiles, ships, crewed and uncrewed aircraft, and even incoming ballistic missiles.
KJ-600 will be a familiar sight to aviation enthusiasts. Grainy photographs out of China depict a plane that is practically identical to the E-2 Hawkeye, from the shape of the aircraft to the radome mounted on top. The plane was developed by the Xi’an Aircraft Company, which also built China’s Y-20 heavy transport airplane. According to Jane’s, the KJ-600 was spotted in June and August at the Chinese Flight Test Establishment at Xian Yanliang.

The KJ-600 won’t fly from China’s existing aircraft carriers, Liaoning and Shandong, as both carriers use a ski jump to get their Shenyang J-15 “Flying Shark” fighter jets airborne. Prop-powered planes like the E-2D and KJ-600 can’t generate enough ready power to take off using a ski jump.
Instead, China’s new plane will operate from the new Type 003 carrier, currently under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai, and future carriers. Type 003 will be the first Chinese carrier with a catapult system that can launch even large propeller-driven aircraft like the KJ-600 into the air.
The People’s Liberation Army Navy is advancing rapidly in building up a modern carrier capability, and a new airborne early warning and control airplane will take Chinese naval aviation to the next level. Aircraft like the KJ-600 show China is serious about building a fleet to rival the mighty U.S. Navy—at least in the Pacific, and possibly beyond.

 

[sheik]

The KJ-600 won’t fly from China’s existing aircraft carriers, Liaoning and Shandong, as both carriers use a ski jump to get their Shenyang J-15 “Flying Shark” fighter jets airborne. Prop-powered planes like the E-2D and KJ-600 can’t generate enough ready power to take off using a ski jump.

I still think KJ-600 will serve on Liaoning and Shandong.
If E-2C and KC-130F can take off without catapult, why cannot KJ-600?

 

[Beast]

I still think KJ-600 will serve on Liaoning and Shandong.
If E-2C and KC-130F can take off without catapult, why cannot KJ-600?

As usual , the clueless US fanboy.
We see news of CV-17 set off, I am wondering is it supporting the testing of new KJ-600 trial.

 

[Deino]

I still think KJ-600 will serve on Liaoning and Shandong.
If E-2C and KC-130F can take off without catapult, why cannot KJ-600?

Pardon, but where does a E-2C takes off without catapult?

 

[sheik]

Pardon, but where does a E-2C takes off without catapult?

View attachment 665881

UPDATED -

I don't have English sources but it's from an article in a Chinese magazine (舰载武器 Shipborne Weapons, published April 2012) which cited a paper on Naval Engineers Journal with the result of a US Navy test conducted in 2005.
According to that article, E-2C at 55000 lbs could take off from a 12 degree ski-jump without assist.
The takeoff distance was 165 m with a 25 knots wind and 240 m without wind.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the Naval Engineers Journals to verify that.

The point is that since KC-130F at 54.47 tons could take off from USS Forrestal with a thrust-to-weight ratio 337 hp/ton and a wing loading 336 kg/m2, it should not be surprising to see a E-2C at 24.95 tons taking off with a thrust-to-weight ratio 406 hp/ton and a wing loading 384 kg/m2.

美国海军工程实验中心在2005年试验过E2C-2000滑跃12度斜板，当时是验证在英国CVF以及类似STOVL类航母上不能使用弹射和拦阻，只凭借飞机自身动力能否正常使用E2预警机。
实验结果发表在美国《海军工程师》杂志上，在25节甲板风下，使用E2飞机在55000磅（24948千克）起飞重量时，可以通过CVF设置的165米滑跑跑道起飞，飞机起飞轨迹可以保持2.5米/秒爬升率 符合美国海军单发安全期非标准。
结论还显示，飞机在进入斜板时就已经达到了可以离地的速度，离开斜板时的抛物线对飞机提升离开甲板后的初段爬升率有较大贡献，飞机操纵无明显负担。
当甲板风速为0时，在距离240米处可以正常起飞，英国航母长度有280米，240米可以满足足够操作空间；而降落时E2预警机可以借助螺旋桨反距，可以再100米以内的距离停下来，长度为200米的斜板跑道在没有拦阻索的情况下，仍然有可能正常降落。
————这是刊登在《舰载武器：军事评论》2012年4月份的文章《真实的谎言-E2类固定翼预警机能不能从瓦良格类航母上起飞的背后》中的一段。

 

[sheik]

Pardon, but where does a E-2C takes off without catapult?

I dug a little deeper and found something that could support my claims.

Northrop Grumman had been trying to sell India E-2C/D for years. The Indians want to operate E-2D on their new indigenous carrier in a few years. Obviously it has no catapult.

India Considers Advanced Hawkeye for AEW&C Need

www.ainonline.com

Actually even 15 years ago Northrop Grumman had told Indians that after some modification E-2C could be operated on Gorshkov. Note it's 2005.

The Tale of the Indian Navy and the E-2 Hawkeye 2000 - Livefist

Just over two years ago, HAL signed an agreement with Northrop Grumman Corp. to “work together on projects of mutual benefit”. This, their press release at the time said, would result in getting HAL on board the E-2C Hawkeye aircraft carrier-based airborne early warning and control (AEW&C)...

www.livefistdefence.com

“But four months later, Northrop Grumman sent senior executives to Delhi to meet Vice Admiral JS Bedi, then Controller, Warship Production & Acquisition, to convince him otherwise.

The team that finally met Bedi, told me on February 11, 2005, three days before their meeting, “We did an assessment with the US Navy, and now believe that it is possible to launch the Hawkeye, with appropriate modifications, from the Gorshkov’s angle deck in the absence of a catapult jump. We will present our findings to the Navy next week, constituting a second order level of detail of the assessment we have made.”

It might be radical, but apparently it's possible, according to Northrop Grumman, to operate E-2C even on Vikramaditya which is much smaller than Liaoning.

 

[Figaro]

China's New Plane Sure Looks Like an American Hawkeye Knockoff

Kyle Mizokami
,
Popular Mechanics•September 1, 2020


From Popular Mechanics

• China's KJ-600 AEW&C plane reportedly made its first flight on August 29.
• The plane is designed to act as a flying radar station, detecting enemy missiles, ships, and aircraft.
• AEW planes also act as flying quarterbacks, coordinating offensive and defensive air missions.

China’s latest carrier aircraft may not be a fighter, but it will be the most important plane in the fleet. The new KJ-600 airborne early warning and control aircraft, which flew for this first time this weekend, will act as the unblinking eye of the fleet, detecting enemy threats far in advance and allowing a carrier to send its jets where they’re needed the most.
✈ You like badass planes. So do we. Let's nerd out over them together.
An aircraft carrier is a powerful, flexible air power platform, capable of both offensive and defensive missions thousands of miles from home. One of the biggest problems for carriers, however, is how to effectively utilize that air power. A carrier’s built-in radar can only see so far, from a few hundred miles at high altitude to two dozen miles or less at sea level.

During World War II, carrier task force commanders were often forced to make informed guesses where the enemy was, sometimes sending fighter patrols and bomber flights on wild goose chases that failed to make contact with the enemy.

Photo credit: MARIO GOLDMAN - Getty Images
The invention of the airborne early warning and control plane (AEW&C) solved that problem. AEW&C planes are large, unarmed aircraft that mount a powerful search radar on pylons above the fuselage. Two to three radar operators sit in the back of the plane, analyzing radar returns, keeping track of friendly and enemy forces, and vectoring friendly fighters and attack jets toward enemy forces. Today, the U.S. and French navies fly the E-2 Hawkeye, a proven platform in service since the 1960s.
The AEW&C’s importance in both offensive and defensive roles keeps planes and their crews busy. In the offense, a plane like the KJ-600 would fly alongside a flight of carrier-based fighters flying an anti-ship or strike mission against targets on the ground. The AEW&C plane would spot incoming enemy fighters, vectoring fighter escorts to intercept them before they could interfere with the mission. The KJ-600 could analyze multiple flights of enemy jets and determine the best way to deal with them.

Defense is where the KJ-600 will shine. An AEW&C plane can extend a carrier’s threat detection range by several hundred more miles simply by flying ahead of the carrier. The AEW&C plane’s ability to fly high and detect low-flying targets ensures it will spot sea-skimming anti-ship cruise missiles at far greater ranges than the 20 or so miles a ship-based radar will detect it.
➡ Make your inbox more awesome.
One particular new capability is the U.S. Navy’s ability to use its E-2D Hawkeye aircraft to provide cueing data to cruisers and destroyers, allowing them to launch air defense missiles like the SM-6 at anti-ship missiles, ships, crewed and uncrewed aircraft, and even incoming ballistic missiles.
KJ-600 will be a familiar sight to aviation enthusiasts. Grainy photographs out of China depict a plane that is practically identical to the E-2 Hawkeye, from the shape of the aircraft to the radome mounted on top. The plane was developed by the Xi’an Aircraft Company, which also built China’s Y-20 heavy transport airplane. According to Jane’s, the KJ-600 was spotted in June and August at the Chinese Flight Test Establishment at Xian Yanliang.

The KJ-600 won’t fly from China’s existing aircraft carriers, Liaoning and Shandong, as both carriers use a ski jump to get their Shenyang J-15 “Flying Shark” fighter jets airborne. Prop-powered planes like the E-2D and KJ-600 can’t generate enough ready power to take off using a ski jump.
Instead, China’s new plane will operate from the new Type 003 carrier, currently under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai, and future carriers. Type 003 will be the first Chinese carrier with a catapult system that can launch even large propeller-driven aircraft like the KJ-600 into the air.
The People’s Liberation Army Navy is advancing rapidly in building up a modern carrier capability, and a new airborne early warning and control airplane will take Chinese naval aviation to the next level. Aircraft like the KJ-600 show China is serious about building a fleet to rival the mighty U.S. Navy—at least in the Pacific, and possibly beyond.

Please please please for the love of God not post anything from Kyle Mizokami. Actually I will create a list of sources whose content should not be posted because they have been debunked countless numbers of times. Other posters feel free to add to this blacklist.

1. Minnie Chan (SCMP) <------ Especially this one
2. Kyle Mizokami/Dave Mujamundar (National Interest)
3. Alex Lockie (Business Insider)
4. David Axe (War is Boring)
5. Strategy Page

 

[Beast]

Pardon, but where does a E-2C takes off without catapult?

View attachment 665881

Deino, we have video of even C-130 hercules take off from US carrier. I don't think it hard for us to believe E2C can't take off from jump ski bow without catapult support especially it take the third launch pad from CV-17 which is furthest from bow. Giving it a plenty of runaway and time to take off.

Best part is KJ-600 may deploy many advance material and 3D printing technics which make it far lighter while still having a powerful turboprop.

 

[Figaro]

Does the KJ-600 adopt the WJ-10 turboprop or does it still retain some WJ-6 variant?

 

[Deino]

Deino, we have video of even C-130 hercules take off from US carrier. I don't think it hard for us to believe E2C can't take off from jump ski bow without catapult support especially it take the third launch pad from CV-17 which is furthest from bow. Giving it a plenty of runaway and time to take off.

Best part is KJ-600 may deploy many advance material and 3D printing technics which make it far lighter while still having a powerful turboprop.

You are surely correct, but my point - maybe again to nitpick - was that the C-130's take off from a carrier was not a regular operational service deployment but more feasibility tests and for the E-2C, that this type indeed uses a catapult from US and French carriers.

That does not exclude the possibility - even if I'm not sure about it - that the KJ-600 could take off the Liaoning & Shandong by using its own power and the full length of the runway.

 

[sheik]

Does the KJ-600 adopt the WJ-10 turboprop or does it still retain some WJ-6 variant?

Not sure about the prototype which might be using some WJ-6 variant at first even if WJ-10 is already available.
You probably don't want to test a new airplane especially a new design with a new engine at the same time.
But The production version must have WJ-10. It's not like using D30 for Y-20 for production at first where you only pay the price of range and load capacity with the inferior substitute while waiting for WS-20 or CJ-1000A.
But for KJ-600, powerful engines are essential since it must operate on the carriers.
So I think before it goes for production, it will start using WJ-10 on the later prototypes, if it's not equipped with WJ-10 yet.