Fudging the population: The missing 90 million Indian Muslims

[Joe Shearer]

So what is your solution to the "Muslim" problem?

THERE IS NO MUSLIM PROBLEM!!!

You, of all people. There is a poverty problem, an unemployment problem, an underemployment problem, an economic stagnation problem.

We just need an equal playing field for Muslim Indians, for all Indians to get the same chance for education, universal at primary levels, maximal at secondary levels with skills development coming in at this stage itself, selective at tertiary level, with the majority going into job-oriented technical institutes and thorough skills training instead of university academics, sharply focussed post-graduate training, and, at every stage, job opportunities, support for the self-employed and incubation for entrepreneurs in technology and disruptive enterprise.

That is a prescription for ALL Indians, the Muslim Indians forming about 15 to 20% of the total.

And, to link it together, Timendi causa est Nescire. Indeed it is.

 

[Sharpshooter12]

I suggest, @Zarvan, instead of fantasising about the greater virility of beef-eaters, you read up on the differential birth-rates caused by differences in living standards and levels of poverty. Even a simpleton can explain the greater birth-rate of the Muslim population, not by citing multiple marriages and the indulgence of the Muslim Indian male in sex to the exclusion of all other entertainment, as the orange bhakt does, not by citing the greater virility of beef-fed members of a feeble, half-starved population, as this green bhakt does, but by an understanding of that factor alone, the higher birth-rate of the poor, and the drop in this birth-rate on the improvement of living conditions and living standards.

With most of Sub-Saharan Africa clocking well above 5.5 birth rate, your point is quite valid. Also Muslim community's reluctance to use birth control because of supposedly religious reasons is another reason of population boom in Muslim world. Also the mentality that your kids, the male ones, are your ticket to a secure old age is also contributing to Muslims having so many kids.

Yes throughout the history, until the middle of 20th century food or lack of it decided the population level in a region, but now food is not a scarce commodity any more.

Germany has world's lowest birthrate followed closely by Japan. Now both of these countries have access to Beef, Germany is in fact in top 10 countries when it comes to meat consumption, but children and in case of Japanese youth even sex is not high on their priority list.

Also Hindu extremists in India or White nationalists in west are right to some extent in believing that Muslims want to dominate the world through population boom, as some illiterate members of our community believe it to be a religious duty of each Muslim to have as many children as he/she can to increase the size of Ummah of the Prophet(PBUH). Once the literacy level increases, we will see a slow birth rate among Muslims.

The recent census results in Pakistan shows the same trend. The regions like Urban Punjab and Sindh, showed a much lower growth rate than tribal and rural areas of Baluchistan and KPK.

There was a joke in Punjabi drama where a guy asks other why he has so many kids, he answered because of the Load Shedding(rolling blackout). You wake up at 2pm at night, have nothing else to do so you get on with the only entertainment available to you.

 

[pothead]

So what is your solution to the "Muslim" problem?

What muslim problem?
If one is going to have 10 kids as a taxi driver, what do you think the future of these kids is? Religion is immaterial. If you are having lot of kids and have no means to provide for them, it is a problem.

It's not a muslim problem. It is in fact muslims that are having a problem. If you are poor and are insisting on having lot of kids, does not take a rocket scientist to determine what the problem is and what the solution is.

 

[Joe Shearer]

“Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital."

Get to the point, please. Do you feel overwhelmed by a tidal wave of Muslims? Or are you just getting in touch with the mathematician within yourself and just love those numbers to bits?

 

[Soumitra]

So what is your solution to the "Muslim" problem?

The solution I have in politically incorrect and some may say undemocratic.

 

[Adonis]

So what is your solution to the "Muslim" problem?

To my mind...EDUCATION (not Madarsa one). More they are education, more they will be accepted in society and will be able to secure respectable means of earnings (read jobs) for themselves......In addition Education will give them wisdom to think rationally and question the irrational , not to be exploited in name of religion, increase acceptability among them for other religions and will reduce their own alienation.
This all will uplift the status of common muslims...this is not only applicable for India but for every country where Muslims are living.

 

[Kedardel]

I agree more kids are considered as a future source of income by the poor. I know you are not one of those types who engage in a debate in a question answer format.
But btw how many kids are sufficient for future insurance ??
A fact that the Mewat area, muslims area in Haryana has more birth rate compared to Hindu area of say Palwal Faridabad Gurgaon. The Mewat area is well connected to highways and good cities like Gurgaon, Faridabad, Palwal and off course Delhi to have good medical facilities.
Mewat is in the farming area of the country so no shortage of food etc. Now if the Mewat has more kids than nearby Hindu areas and by virtue of it the farmer there becomes poor, cause the land is divided between so many due to number of kids at each level, would you still say the more kids are because of poverty ?????
In the generations of our grandparents, it used to be normal to find couple having 7-9 kids (because of high risk of death and lot of man power needed to till the lands etc.[poverty]) but today the same farming community barring one particular section has rarely more than four kids, isnt it.
Please dont show me any courtesy of not writing me an Idiot (which you called me otherwise) since it shows more on you than me, I will ignore that and only focus only on what argument or logic you are giving. And I know of many good people who can be ruthless in certain circumstances but never undignified, not even in language indirectly.
P.s Now please dont use this phrase oh we are murdering them in future, we are not.

I was strongly tempted to start my post by calling you an idiot, but fortunately preserved myself from such undignified behaviour by not doing that.
If you have been following the work of sociologists, it is precisely the reverse: too many kids is the RESULT of poverty. The poor use their kids to ensure their future, because they have no social security for their old age, and have to depend on their kids. They have many kids, because the survival rate of children among the poorest sections of our population is horribly low; we are murdering them while they are still children.
Maybe I should just go ahead and be undignified.
Where on earth did you dig out that signature? That's Seneca, that old reprobate and brilliant mind. And so true!

 

[Laozi]

Get to the point, please. Do you feel overwhelmed by a tidal wave of Muslims? Or are you just getting in touch with the mathematician within yourself and just love those numbers to bits?

I would rather refrain from entering a No Go Zone.

 

[Soumitra]

I agree more kids are considered as a future source of income by the poor. I know you are not one of those types who engage in a debate in a question answer format.
But btw how many kids are sufficient for future insurance ??
A fact that the Mewat area, muslims area in Haryana has more birth rate compared to Hindu area of say Palwal Faridabad Gurgaon. The Mewat area is well connected to highways and good cities like Gurgaon, Faridabad, Palwal and off course Delhi to have good medical facilities.
Mewat is in the farming area of the country so no shortage of food etc. Now if the Mewat has more kids than nearby Hindu areas and by virtue of it the farmer there becomes poor, cause the land is divided between so many due to number of kids at each level, would you still say the more kids are because of poverty ?????
In the generations of our grandparents, it used to be normal to find couple having 7-9 kids (because of high risk of death and lot of man power needed to till the lands etc.[poverty]) but today the same farming community barring one particular section has rarely more than four kids, isnt it.
Please dont show me any courtesy of not writing me an Idiot (which you called me otherwise) since it shows more on you than me, I will ignore that and only focus only on what argument or logic you are giving. And I know of many good people who can be ruthless in certain circumstances but never undignified, not even in language indirectly.
P.s Now please dont use this phrase oh we are murdering them in future, we are not.

I doubt he will answer your questions

Liberals have 4 standard responses to pointed questions
1 Abuse the person who asked the question
2 Refuse to answer the questions because
a I am an elite person and question and it's asker is beneath me
b I have already answered the question (but won't give any link or reference to the answer)
3 Bring in totally different thing in the answer to deflect the question
4 (In case of PDF) Block you or give you negative rating

 

[Joe Shearer]

To my mind...EDUCATION (not Madarsa one). More they are education, more they will be accepted in society and will be able to secure respectable means of earnings (read jobs) for themselves......In addition Education will give them wisdom to think rationally and question the irrational , not to be exploited in name of religion, increase acceptability among them for other religions and will reduce their own alienation.
This all will uplift the status of common muslims...this is not only applicable for India but for every country where Muslims are living.

Now how to get these beastly Muslims to stop fornicating and send their children to school? It's so simple really.

 

[Soumitra]

Now how to get these beastly Muslims to stop fornicating and send their children to school? It's so simple really.

Simple pass a law that if you want any subsidies it will be limited to 3 children in a family. If you want to stand for any election you cannot have more than 3 children and you have to be minimum 10th pass. If you are elected and you want to be part of the cabinet you have to be minimum graduate

 

[Kedardel]

Sir, Let me give an example for equal playing field.
My village never had any Muslims but about a decade ago a Sarpanch decided to bring one muslim family to live in the area. My village has a govt. school meaning the education is almost free. The City is five KMs away which has excellent medical facilities infact inundated with modern nursing homes. Delhi is only an hour away means hospitals like AIIMS and Safdarjung etc. are within reach. The area is a farming community area so food is not a problem anyone working will have food and work security. The life expectancy has been good around since there has been no outbreak of any major disease and children are immunized by Govt. departments.
Now one of the Muslims has 11 children and similarly there are a few others with fantastic birth rate. Who to blame, poverty or lack of medical facility or life expectancy ????????????????
BTW i feel bad for the Kids who have to live in such circumstances.

And it may be noted that if some committee person like Sachchar would come then he will note that 90% of the family doesnt have a home and a job. Now the committee would blame the village for not giving them equal treatment.

Its actually unequal treatment to fellow human beings of the villages living around where one family or religion will attract goodies just because of their numbers since in all Sarpanch elections they will have a good say.

THERE IS NO MUSLIM PROBLEM!!!

You, of all people. There is a poverty problem, an unemployment problem, an underemployment problem, an economic stagnation problem.

We just need an equal playing field for Muslim Indians,

Sir, Now about the educational prescription for all, the problem for India is India's Education. It teaches a fish to climb a tree. It teaches a Farmer's kid how to be good accountant. A graduate Farmer's kid who cant compete with City guys is rendered useless since he can only do small jobs in city and he is too educated for the Village.

for all Indians to get the same chance for education, universal at primary levels, maximal at secondary levels with skills development coming in at this stage itself, selective at tertiary level, with the majority going into job-oriented technical institutes and thorough skills training instead of university academics, sharply focussed post-graduate training, and, at every stage, job opportunities, support for the self-employed and incubation for entrepreneurs in technology and disruptive enterprise.

That is a prescription for ALL Indians, the Muslim Indians forming about 15 to 20% of the total.

And, to link it together, Timendi causa est Nescire. Indeed it is.

 

[Kedardel]

By having more children actually you are harassing another citizen because his vote value decreases. People dont realize that one person having huge family gets uneven advantage in democracy.
We need to have laws to favor people with less number of children.

The problem is further increased by playing a victim card that we are poor. No one is discussing that the Sacchar committee report is a direct result of too many kids.

Simple pass a law that if you want any subsidies it will be limited to 3 children in a family. If you want to stand for any election you cannot have more than 3 children and you have to be minimum 10th pass. If you are elected and you want to be part of the cabinet you have to be minimum graduate

 

[SrNair]

Indian muslims offer Jummat-ul-Vida, the last congregational Friday prayers in the holy month of Ramadan at Jama Masjid in New Delhi. PHOTO: AFP

There is one thing about Indian Muslims that just can’t be denied – most of them are poor. They don’t earn enough to be able to go on vacations to other countries. Most of them wish to go for Hajj to Saudi Arabia, and this they are able to do only when they are very old; having struggled to save over many years for the journey.

Of course, there are rich and literate Indian Muslims whom one occasionally meets (mostly in the UAE and Saudi Arabia), and when you talk to them, they are adamant that the population of Indian Muslims is much more than that declared by their government. I have heard this many a times from the few educated Indian Muslims I have come across during my trips to foreign countries.

However, Hindutva extremists fear that Indian Muslims are growing exponentially and India will soon become a Muslim-majority state. This is because, according to the past seven Indian censuses (1951 to 2011), Muslims have grown from 11.66% to 14.23% of the total Indian population. What they don’t know is that their governments have tried to keep Hindutva extremists calm by deliberately suppressing the actual number of Indian Muslims. I mean, if virulent Hindutva extremists are terrified by just a 2.75% increase in the Muslim population in 60 years, they will definitely come out on the streets and kill all Muslims in sight if told that the number of Indian Muslims is actually around 22% of the total population.


So I have done a lot of research over the past few months and I can easily prove that fudging has taken place when recording the number of Muslims in India. I shall try to explain as simply as possible.

Let us start with the Indian census of 1941, six years before the British left the sub-continent. According to the Hindutva extremist Jana Sangh’s website, in 1941, the number of Muslims in undivided India was 94.4 million, half of whom lived in what later became Pakistan (including Bangladesh). The 47 million Muslims of Pakistan and Bangladesh had grown to about 326 million in 2011, while the 47 million Muslims in India had grown to only 172.2 million in the same year. This is a big difference of 153.8 million. However, we have to take into consideration the migration of Muslims from India to Pakistan and Bangladesh immediately after Partition.

According to Indian census data, the population of Indian Muslims grew by 33% between 1951 and 1961. If we assume that the population grew at the same rate between 1941 and 1951, the Muslim population in India in 1951 would have been 62.5 million. The exact number of Muslims who left India to settle in Pakistan and Bangladesh after Partition is unknown, but is estimated to be between six and eight million. If we assume that seven million Muslims left India after Partition, and that another million Muslims died in the Bengal famine of 1943, the Indian Muslim population in 1951 would have been about 54 million, instead of 35 million as recorded in the 1951 census.

Again, according to Indian census data, the Indian Muslim population grew by about 386% in 60 years from 1951 to 2011. If the population had been recorded at 54 million in 1951, it would and should have been about 262 million today (assuming that it grew by 386%, as per India’s data itself). Since the 2011 census reported the number of Indian Muslims as 172 million, there are at least 90 million Indian Muslims who have not been registered by the Indian authorities. This means that in 2011, there were at least 22 Muslims out of every 100 Indians.

So the question then arises, why don’t Indian Muslims speak up? One reason could be that they are too busy struggling desperately to survive, and don’t care whether they are registered or not, since they know that they will always remain the underdogs in a country which is rapidly heading towards Hindutva Talibanisation. Then of course, there is the Indian government itself, which wants to ensure that India remains a Hindu-majority country. They fear that once a state has more Muslims than others, that state could demand independence. Already West Bengal, Assam and Kerala have more than 25 % of Muslim population, while Uttar Pradesh (UP) and Bihar have a significant Muslim population.

But Hindutva extremists should ask themselves why Muslims are growing so rapidly, while Hindus are declining in India. Perhaps a high protein diet (including beef) increases fertility?

Shakir Lakhani
Engineer, former visiting lecturer at NED Engineering College, industrialist, associated with petroleum/chemical industries for many years. Loves writing, and (in the opinion of most of those who know him), mentally unbalanced. He tweets @shakirlakhani (twitter.com/shakirlakhani)



https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/...lation-the-missing-90-million-indian-muslims/

So he met some Indian Muslims in GCC that declared that population is actually higher

Defintely ,would be Malayalis and successfully trolled a Pakistani.

Hindutva this ,Hindutva that .
Indian politics will always remain Indian politics .Only a Pakistani can do is to gulping some water in the name of Ummah.

FYI : Once a Muslim friend told me ,for him his religion taught him that a real Muslim would always gives priority to his nation .
So far this is the case of all my Muslim friends.

Indian muslims offer Jummat-ul-Vida, the last congregational Friday prayers in the holy month of Ramadan at Jama Masjid in New Delhi. PHOTO: AFP

There is one thing about Indian Muslims that just can’t be denied – most of them are poor. They don’t earn enough to be able to go on vacations to other countries. Most of them wish to go for Hajj to Saudi Arabia, and this they are able to do only when they are very old; having struggled to save over many years for the journey.

Of course, there are rich and literate Indian Muslims whom one occasionally meets (mostly in the UAE and Saudi Arabia), and when you talk to them, they are adamant that the population of Indian Muslims is much more than that declared by their government. I have heard this many a times from the few educated Indian Muslims I have come across during my trips to foreign countries.

However, Hindutva extremists fear that Indian Muslims are growing exponentially and India will soon become a Muslim-majority state. This is because, according to the past seven Indian censuses (1951 to 2011), Muslims have grown from 11.66% to 14.23% of the total Indian population. What they don’t know is that their governments have tried to keep Hindutva extremists calm by deliberately suppressing the actual number of Indian Muslims. I mean, if virulent Hindutva extremists are terrified by just a 2.75% increase in the Muslim population in 60 years, they will definitely come out on the streets and kill all Muslims in sight if told that the number of Indian Muslims is actually around 22% of the total population.


So I have done a lot of research over the past few months and I can easily prove that fudging has taken place when recording the number of Muslims in India. I shall try to explain as simply as possible.

Let us start with the Indian census of 1941, six years before the British left the sub-continent. According to the Hindutva extremist Jana Sangh’s website, in 1941, the number of Muslims in undivided India was 94.4 million, half of whom lived in what later became Pakistan (including Bangladesh). The 47 million Muslims of Pakistan and Bangladesh had grown to about 326 million in 2011, while the 47 million Muslims in India had grown to only 172.2 million in the same year. This is a big difference of 153.8 million. However, we have to take into consideration the migration of Muslims from India to Pakistan and Bangladesh immediately after Partition.

According to Indian census data, the population of Indian Muslims grew by 33% between 1951 and 1961. If we assume that the population grew at the same rate between 1941 and 1951, the Muslim population in India in 1951 would have been 62.5 million. The exact number of Muslims who left India to settle in Pakistan and Bangladesh after Partition is unknown, but is estimated to be between six and eight million. If we assume that seven million Muslims left India after Partition, and that another million Muslims died in the Bengal famine of 1943, the Indian Muslim population in 1951 would have been about 54 million, instead of 35 million as recorded in the 1951 census.

Again, according to Indian census data, the Indian Muslim population grew by about 386% in 60 years from 1951 to 2011. If the population had been recorded at 54 million in 1951, it would and should have been about 262 million today (assuming that it grew by 386%, as per India’s data itself). Since the 2011 census reported the number of Indian Muslims as 172 million, there are at least 90 million Indian Muslims who have not been registered by the Indian authorities. This means that in 2011, there were at least 22 Muslims out of every 100 Indians.

So the question then arises, why don’t Indian Muslims speak up? One reason could be that they are too busy struggling desperately to survive, and don’t care whether they are registered or not, since they know that they will always remain the underdogs in a country which is rapidly heading towards Hindutva Talibanisation. Then of course, there is the Indian government itself, which wants to ensure that India remains a Hindu-majority country. They fear that once a state has more Muslims than others, that state could demand independence. Already West Bengal, Assam and Kerala have more than 25 % of Muslim population, while Uttar Pradesh (UP) and Bihar have a significant Muslim population.

But Hindutva extremists should ask themselves why Muslims are growing so rapidly, while Hindus are declining in India. Perhaps a high protein diet (including beef) increases fertility?

Shakir Lakhani
Engineer, former visiting lecturer at NED Engineering College, industrialist, associated with petroleum/chemical industries for many years. Loves writing, and (in the opinion of most of those who know him), mentally unbalanced. He tweets @shakirlakhani (twitter.com/shakirlakhani)



https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/...lation-the-missing-90-million-indian-muslims/

If he spend at least half of that effort itcm would have been better for Pakistanis .

Dont drag Kerala in to your BS.
Muslim population in Kerala except one district in Northern Kerala is actually contracting .In South India it is stabilising .

 

[Pakistani E]

What muslim problem?
If one is going to have 10 kids as a taxi driver, what do you think the future of these kids is? Religion is immaterial. If you are having lot of kids and have no means to provide for them, it is a problem.

It's not a muslim problem. It is in fact muslims that are having a problem. If you are poor and are insisting on having lot of kids, does not take a rocket scientist to determine what the problem is and what the solution is.

I don't know, ask him:

The solution I have in politically incorrect and some may say undemocratic.

THERE IS NO MUSLIM PROBLEM!!!

You, of all people. There is a poverty problem, an unemployment problem, an underemployment problem, an economic stagnation problem.

We just need an equal playing field for Muslim Indians, for all Indians to get the same chance for education, universal at primary levels, maximal at secondary levels with skills development coming in at this stage itself, selective at tertiary level, with the majority going into job-oriented technical institutes and thorough skills training instead of university academics, sharply focussed post-graduate training, and, at every stage, job opportunities, support for the self-employed and incubation for entrepreneurs in technology and disruptive enterprise.

That is a prescription for ALL Indians, the Muslim Indians forming about 15 to 20% of the total.

And, to link it together, Timendi causa est Nescire. Indeed it is.

I was trying to elicit a response, the wording of his post was generic, grouping over a hundred million people to fit the narrative that he wants to project. It reminded me of the old Nazi propaganda literature, where it was always "the Others", their lifestyle, their differences, their inhumanity etc.

He presented his ideas, I just wanted to see his solution. I got my answer. And maybe you will see why I was trying to draw the response out that I quoted above this.

Where on earth did you dig out that signature? That's Seneca, that old reprobate and brilliant mind. And so true!

I am student and a great admirer of Stoic philosophy, Seneca and Marcus Aurelius being my favourites. Marcus Aurelius' Meditations serving as my principle point of refuge during dark winter nights.