From pk-15 , JF-17 Thunder and Al Khalid to fifth generation stealth fighter jet project Azm

[BON PLAN]

I will always feel said for having an enemy that is so dumb that it doesn't respect the capability of its own enemy. I have seen enemies who respect the capabilities of their enemy and admit that their enemy is smart and sharp. Then there is my neighbor India. I mean seriously look at us Pakistani's we have discussed to death both with our friends and families and then here in forum with technicalities to study our weaknesses and evolve. Because, we know our shortcomings in Kargil, 71 and 65 War and 1948 War. But Indians cannot admit this single defeat and admit that they performed poorly and were surprised by PAF. I wish I had enemy I could look up to and improve myself upon.​

My ennemy may be a brave one, but using a 1950' root weapon, he is already half dead.

JF17 is doing its best, but is limited by :
-A single and not very powerfull engine (nothing to compare to a F100 or F110 engine for exemple).
-A short range dur to its grand father Mig21 origin (which is only a point defense fighter, as Tejas is).
-Fitted with an unknown weapon system. No chinese weapon is combat proven so far... just think about that.
-So cost effective than no one ordered it exempt Pak.

Sorry, those are only facts. You may decided not to belive in facts, but no magic will help you once in combat.

Who hurt you french fry?

no one. I just open my eyes and my ears, and use my brain to analyze the situation.

French people are some of the most anti-Pakistan people in the world. Also a very racist people. Just look at their history regarding colonization.

On this forum it is just impossible to explain the truth if it is against pak people or muslim.

Racist? The main foreign community in France is made of african muslims. They are hundred thousand to come in every year = we really are very very racist !

 

[Tornado23]

My ennemy may be a brave one, but using a 1950' root weapon, he is already half dead.

JF17 is doing its best, but is limited by :
-A single and not very powerfull engine (nothing to compare to a F100 or F110 engine for exemple).
-A short range dur to its grand father Mig21 origin (which is only a point defense fighter, as Tejas is).
-Fitted with an unknown weapon system. No chinese weapon is combat proven so far... just think about that.
-So cost effective than no one ordered it exempt Pak.

Sorry, those are only facts. You may decided not to belive in facts, but no magic will help you once in combat.


no one. I just open my eyes and my ears, and use my brain to analyze the situation.

How did you come to your conclusion that the JF17 is based off of the Mig21?

Neither JF17 or Tejas are point defense fighters.

They are a lot of combat proven Chinese weapons. In the Sudanese civil war, one of the Sudans (can't remember which one) was using Russian/Soviet made T72M1 and the other were using Chinese made T85IIM MBTs. They had a tank battle in which the T72M1 was completely destroyed and not a single Type 85IIM was knocked out. They tanked the hits.

The Pakistani made variant of the HJ8 ATGM (Bakta Shikan) has been used in Bosnia/Serbia against the Serbian military, successfully destroying dozens upon dozens of Serbian M84/T72 and T55 tanks. They have also been used on the LOC a lot, destroying Indian fortified positions and T72 tanks. The JF17 has seen CAS roles during the WOT, targeting terrorists and their hideouts with guided munitions.

Literally Nigeria bought 3 of them, Myanmar bought ~16 of them and we have now gotten interests of Argentina (very likely), Iraq (unknown if they are gonna buy) and Azerbaijan (possible they could buy). Tejas has attracted 0 customers on its own. The only attraction it can gain is when they shove it in a fighter jet tender which the Jf17 has already entered to undermine Pakistan and the JF17. That's it.

 

[BON PLAN]

How did you come to your conclusion that the JF17 is based off of the Mig21?

Just because it is.
JF-17 is a derivative of F-7 wich is a chinese copy of Mig21. Just see the wings and empennage.

Neither JF17 or Tejas are point defense fighters.

The two were studied to replace mig21 and Mirage III. Which are point defense fighters : light, short ranged, with a limited weapon system because relying on ground radars and HQ.

a lot of combat proven Chinese weapons. In the Sudanese civil war

What a war !!!! so harsh than no one knows it

 

[BON PLAN]

Literally Nigeria bought 3 of them, Myanmar bought ~16 of them

OK. 19 sold. I didn't know.

Tejas has attracted 0 customers on its own

True. They choose a harder way (a brand new fighter and a failed new angine) than China+Pak (a close derivative of a mature product)

 

[Tornado23]

Just because it is.
JF-17 is a derivative of F-7 wich is a chinese copy of Mig21. Just see the wings and empennage.


The two were studied to replace mig21 and Mirage III. Which are point defense fighters : light, short ranged, with a limited weapon system because relying on ground radars and HQ.


What a war !!!! so harsh than no one knows it

The wings and empennage look nothing like the Mig21. I would've understood if you said fuselage but empennage? Also the cylindrical fuselage is not unique to the mig21.

Tejas was intended to replace the mig21, Jf17 was intended to replace the F7, A5 and Mirages, as well as to become the backbone of the PAF.

Jf 17 is not a point defense fighter. Iys range is too long, and it's intended role is multirole, like the F16 before it. Limited weapons system? You kidding? Have you seen what it can carry?


Also you clearly don't understand how bad the Sudanese civil war was. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sudanese_Civil_War

Also also you missed out my point about Serbia and the Bakta Shikan

 

[firohot4321]

My ennemy may be a brave one, but using a 1950' root weapon, he is already half dead.

JF17 is doing its best, but is limited by :
-A single and not very powerfull engine (nothing to compare to a F100 or F110 engine for exemple).
-A short range dur to its grand father Mig21 origin (which is only a point defense fighter, as Tejas is).
-Fitted with an unknown weapon system. No chinese weapon is combat proven so far... just think about that.
-So cost effective than no one ordered it exempt Pak.

Sorry, those are only facts. You may decided not to belive in facts, but no magic will help you once in combat.


no one. I just open my eyes and my ears, and use my brain to analyze the situation.


On this forum it is just impossible to explain the truth if it is against pak people or muslim.

Racist? The main foreign community in France is made of african muslims. They are hundred thousand to come in every year = we really are very very racist !

Myanmar Nigeria have ordered jf17
And also being evaluated by Argentine

It's a light fighter but equipped with aesa radar and other fourth gen sensor

As for weapons other then USA and Russian
Most European weapons are also untested
Especially in air to air category

But that's why there's cold and hot testing

 

[Trango Towers]

My ennemy may be a brave one, but using a 1950' root weapon, he is already half dead.

JF17 is doing its best, but is limited by :
-A single and not very powerfull engine (nothing to compare to a F100 or F110 engine for exemple).
-A short range dur to its grand father Mig21 origin (which is only a point defense fighter, as Tejas is).
-Fitted with an unknown weapon system. No chinese weapon is combat proven so far... just think about that.
-So cost effective than no one ordered it exempt Pak.

Sorry, those are only facts. You may decided not to belive in facts, but no magic will help you once in combat.


no one. I just open my eyes and my ears, and use my brain to analyze the situation.


On this forum it is just impossible to explain the truth if it is against pak people or muslim.

Racist? The main foreign community in France is made of african muslims. They are hundred thousand to come in every year = we really are very very racist !

You are a laughing stock here. Try Nigeria and Myanmar.

Tejas is still on the truck after 40 years and you Indians talk Shyte.

 

[BON PLAN]

You are a laughing stock here. Try Nigeria and Myanmar.

Tejas is still on the truck after 40 years and you Indians talk Shyte.

OK, 19 units sold. A real export success.

Indians made 2 errors with Tejas : they tryed to built a too small bird for a first try in modern fighter (and the smaller it is the harder it is) and they linked this new fighter with a brand new engine (instead of using a proven one on the fighter and study, appart, an engine). It is why it is so late and finally without its proper engine.

 

[Trango Towers]

OK, 19 units sold. A real export success.

Indians made 2 errors with Tejas : they tryed to built a too small bird for a first try in modern fighter (and the smaller it is the harder it is) and they linked this new fighter with a brand new engine (instead of using a proven one on the fighter and study, appart, an engine). It is why it is so late and finally without its proper engine.

Please do shut up. You are talking kaka again

 

[Abid123]

you Indians talk Shyte.

He is french dude.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Anyone who thinks JF-17 is based on Mig-21 is an utter moron and does not even deserve to be responded to

 

[Trango Towers]

Anyone who thinks JF-17 is based on Mig-21 is an utter moron and does not even deserve to be responded to

I think he is a kid who watches the same Indian channels that claim kabul Serena has a 5th floor

 

[BON PLAN]

Please do shut up. You are talking kaka again

Shut up your self. You have absolutely no argument. You are just irritated to see the evidence.

I think he is a kid who watches the same Indian channels that claim kabul Serena has a 5th floor

And you a noob thinking that the unskilled pakistani and copycat chinese are better than west aerospace engineers with 80+ years of refinement behind them.

In case of a conflict between Chinese or Pak weapons and west ones, it will be the same than in Ukraine : a big scale technical defeat.
We already have a first lesson in Irak in 1991, but it was said that iraki have no premium russian weapons (ie T72 without the best armor for exemple)... We thought may be not. But in Ukraine it's full option russian weapons that are smashed all day long, and china has nothing more potent. Only numbers.

 

[313ghazi]

Just because it is.
JF-17 is a derivative of F-7 wich is a chinese copy of Mig21. Just see the wings and empennage.


The two were studied to replace mig21 and Mirage III. Which are point defense fighters : light, short ranged, with a limited weapon system because relying on ground radars and HQ.


What a war !!!! so harsh than no one knows it

How can you be on this forum for 6 years and think JF-17 has anything to do with F-7.

Shut up your self. You have absolutely no argument. You are just irritated to see the evidence.


And you a noob thinking that the unskilled pakistani and copycat chinese are better than west aerospace engineers with 80+ years of refinement behind them.

In case of a conflict between Chinese or Pak weapons and west ones, it will be the same than in Ukraine : a big scale technical defeat.
We already have a first lesson in Irak in 1991, but it was said that iraki have no premium russian weapons (ie T72 without the best armor for exemple)... We thought may be not. But in Ukraine it's full option russian weapons that are smashed all day long, and china has nothing more potent. Only numbers.

The difference between China and Russia is this - your homes are full of goods manufactured in China. There was a shortage of cars and IT hardware due to a chip shortage because of covid measures in China.

You seem to think about China as 70's sweatshops. Think again.

Nobody would notice anything if the French shut down.

 

[arslank03]

OK, 19 units sold. A real export success.

Indians made 2 errors with Tejas : they tryed to built a too small bird for a first try in modern fighter (and the smaller it is the harder it is) and they linked this new fighter with a brand new engine (instead of using a proven one on the fighter and study, appart, an engine). It is why it is so late and finally without its proper engine.

First rafale sale came 30 years after first aircraft production .

If you actually had two brain cells to rub together you'd know that the gap the JF-17 fits into was a fighter roughly capable to MLU F-5s, this was the benchmark. This was met, when states evaluated block 1/2, they saw comparable performance to MLU F-1s, F-5s etc so why would the buy it when they have a similar aircraft in their inventory? Until block 3, PAC dedicated very little capacity to export as they did not intend to gain much in the way of export sales, for the block 3, they had announced that half of the production line would be dedicated to export customers, re-iterating what everyone knows, the block 3 was the standard that was anticipated to be the real seller. So far, doing pretty well considering its being evaluated and actively participating in competitions for numerous forces globally.

On top of that, the Rafale C being sold today took decades to get those sales, even with the well-documented french corruption and bribes, which is quite ironic considering the chest-thumping by you here.

Your comment about mig 21 lineage are baseless and mostly incorrect, referring to the wings and empennage as a means of indication of influence is just silly, the JF-17 uses a cropped delta config with LERX, the F-7PG uses a compound delta wing.

Engines- being replaced by ws-13 slowly, been reliable thus far.

'proven tech' fantasy. Most of the world's modern tech is unproven, can you tell me the last time the Rafale, or Meteor, or F-35, FREMM etc engaged a near peer threat as opposed to bombing civillians and men armed with AK-47s? When was the last time? The only aircraft kill the rafale has had was engaging a parked trainer jet


Take your uninformed chest thumping elsewhere, we dont care