France rules out submarine sale to Pakistan (according to Dunya news).

[flamer84]

It's not about France my friend. French quality is great. It's just a case of opportunity cost for the French. France and Pakistan maintain good ties.

Exactly,they're out there to make a buck.If Pakistan would have been the first to order 6-10 Scorpenes in a multi billion euro deal i'm pretty sure they would have asked that the same sub won't be sold to India "x" years later.It's just common sense.

 

[Dalit]

Sir,I don't think Pakistan choose Germany.As in future Pakistan surly will buy Chinese sub, then maintaining three different platform of three different countries cause headache for Pak navy logistically.more ever, there is no guaranty of Germany that in future they will not sanction you.

Agreed. It's not only about sanctions. It's a given that France, Britain and Germany are all countries that won't sell advanced military hardware to Pakistan let alone subs. Anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves. Pakistan will buy Chinese subs. The writing is on the wall. The Agosta's will be supplemented with Chinese subs.

 

[VelocuR]

We don't produce quality ? Please,our stuff isn't Russia's.
Russia and Pakistan aren't the same countries.
Since Pakistan isn't a threat and didn't invade any European country,neither threatened one,why will we stop weapons deliveries to PK ?

France must follow their words and commitment to delivery the deadlines.

France insulted Pakistan to stop all the heavy military deals in the past when it offered Rafale jets or any project to India. It is better for Pakistan to work with different suppliers and commitment, we don't want any supplier who are two face and flip flop in changing plans every year, Pakistan can't predict it.

France to stop selling heavy military equipment to Pakistan: Report - The Express Tribune

France stops military equipment sales to Pakistan

Just ignore France's fake offers and low quality products.

 

[Donatello]

To of all of the genius Indians, where does it say that French refused because of India or their fantasies? It already says that there was transfer of technology issue........they've done that with Agostas in the past so i don't know why they'd refuse now....even though the AIP for one of the boats was installed in not so distant past. This is most probably due to the Pakistani request for integrating weapons of our choice......so naturally Pakistan rather than wasting time like MMRCA of India, would go for options where we get tailored system.

 

[IceCold]

French have the audacity to refuse us even when Indians are giving them a hard time over Rafale deal and there was news about them reviving the JF-17 deal. Anyhow sooner than latter they will be back once Indians fully back out. As i said in the JF-17 thread Pakistan should have shown the middle finger and moved on. There is nothing the French have that the Chinese cant offer.

 

[Dalit]

Because of China

Any high technology sold to Pakistan will land in Chinese hands

And unlike USA ; which has posted officials to protect its F 16 Block 52
every country cannot do so ; or is not willing to do so

Only a matter of time before advanced weapons from Europe are sold to China. The French in particular are dying to sell their military hardware to the China. China has the cash and the willingness to buy advanced military hardware from Europe. The Americans have been whining about this particular issue for a very long time. The Europeans have been showing a lot of discontent and resistance to the Americans. It's only a matter of time. We're already witnessing a massive change in attitude from Europe towards China.

 

[flamer84]

French have the audacity to refuse us even when Indians are giving them a hard time over Rafale deal and there was news about them reviving the JF-17 deal. Anyhow sooner than latter they will be back once Indians fully back out. As i said in the JF-17 thread Pakistan should have shown the middle finger and moved on. There is nothing the French have that the Chinese cant offer.

Rafale or no Rafale they took 2 billion $ only in the Mirage upgrade deal.I won't start with other deals they have going now.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Only a matter of time before advanced weapons from Europe are sold to China. The French in particular are dying to sell their military hardware to the China. The Americans have been whining about this particular issue for a very long time. The Europeans have been showing a lot of discontent and resistance to the Americans. It's only a matter of time.

It will NEVER happen

Way back in 2005 - 2006 ; this issue has been resolved between USA
and Europe

US was and obviously is still dead against it ;
Now even Europe has seen the threat from China to USA and Japan

Europe needs NATO and USA and US wants to contain China

 

[flamer84]

Only a matter of time before advanced weapons from Europe are sold to China. The French in particular are dying to sell their military hardware to the China. China has the cash and the willingness to buy advanced military hardware from Europe. The Americans have been whining about this particular issue for a very long time. The Europeans have been showing a lot of discontent and resistance to the Americans. It's only a matter of time. We're already witnessing a massive change in attitude from Europe towards China.

Not really.This is one EU policy decided by the big players and i know this because my country's officials are lobbying for the embargo to be lifted only to be rebuked time and time again by France/Germany/UK.Why sell your tech for a few billions now only to loose tenfold in the future when they copy it without paying fees ? They kind of learned that lesson by now.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Dalit

This news is from 2005

Trans-Atlantic tensions over EU plan to lift arms embargo on China - World Socialist Web Site

 

[syedali73]

I would have said take the news with a pinch of salt, but this piece of news is consistent with French statements in the past. They are also deeply tied in with India over various deals.

I say look to the Germans. The old HDW offer should be revived i.e. the 214......

I am afraid our close ties with China and allegations of letting Chinese to look into Western -supplied military hardwares would prevent us from buying anything advanced enough from the West be it France or Germany. In-fact it appears that through such maneuvers we are being actively persuaded to distance from China and rely totally on the West. Can we really distance ourselves from China in order to procure supposedly 'superior' quality military hardware from the West is a big question. I don't know but if I were to protect my house, I would purchase weapons through a reliable source that would not ding me while I would need them most. Of-course protecting one's motherland is far more complicated a business and we need to go for a mix of both the quality and quantity. Europe is increasingly becoming bitchy; for instance, Germany refused to sell the Leopards to KSA despite the fact that this deal would have benefited German economy tremendously. How sure are we that even after inking the agreement and what not we will indeed get the subs from Germany in due course of time? Our needs for subs are real and imminent for at this point of time we have only one Agosta 90B Sub equipped with AIP, not sure about the other two, whereas the remaining two Agosta class subs are too old and need replacement. We are already too late and I am not sure we could (or we should) delay new sub acquisitions for another several years.

 

[Gabriel92]

France must follow their words and commitment to delivery the deadlines.

France insulted Pakistan to stop all the heavy military deals in the past when it offered Rafale jets or any project to India. It is better for Pakistan to work with different suppliers and commitment, we don't want any supplier who are two face and flip flop in changing plans every year, Pakistan can't predict it.

France to stop selling heavy military equipment to Pakistan: Report - The Express Tribune

France stops military equipment sales to Pakistan

Just ignore France's fake offers and low quality products.

If we deliver you military equipments (Submarines for exemple...) we could loose many big deals in India,that's why.

 

[Donatello]

Because of China

Any high technology sold to Pakistan will land in Chinese hands

And unlike USA ; which has posted officials to protect its F 16 Block 52
every country cannot do so ; or is not willing to do so

Trust me, the Chinese can still gawk F-16 technology....they got the inners of the B-2, F-117.....you don't always have to be present in physical form to inspect something. Lastly, F-16s are potent for their electronics........which China will achieve one day given their progress.

It is not the same case with Submarines....Pakistan wants a Submarine cruise missile launch capability and that cruise missile to be Nuclear weapon as the triad of Pakistan's Nuclear Weapon forces. French will not allow that integration....neither will Germans. They will tell us, this is what is for sale........and that's what you can buy. Pakistan on the other hand has gotten used to purchasing weapons that are bespoke...tailored to it's needs.....and of course...French would want payments upfront.....with China they'll get finances by the Eximp banks. The real question is....how quiet are the Chinese subs, how good is the AIP and how reliable they are.

 

[me_itsme]

To of all of the genius Indians, where does it say that French refused because of India or their fantasies? It already says that there was transfer of technology issue........they've done that with Agostas in the past so i don't know why they'd refuse now....even though the AIP for one of the boats was installed in not so distant past. This is most probably due to the Pakistani request for integrating weapons of our choice......so naturally Pakistan rather than wasting time like MMRCA of India, would go for options where we get tailored system.

And all is nice and dandy.

 

[DeathInvader]

we have got enough funds dont you worry about that , we are purchasing 8 from china and the rest from these countries .

Let's see how much you buy

212's are only for Germany,Italy,the developing nations.214 is for export.

so which old submarine are they seeking anyways!

214 is the export designate my friend. The original deal was for three 214 submarines, the same ones operated by the fleets mentioned in your post.

Sorry my friend! I had no clue Pakistan was seeking to buy new ones. I misinterpreted your earlier post i guess