France Reduces Rafale Price Just a Little

[PARIKRAMA]

@cerberus
As i posted in another thread the figure which look big in Euro has many components including the planes and weapons which is estimated around Euro 4Bn and the rest major support services and infrastructure, training spares etc etc which is estimated around a similar price of Euro 5 Bn. This itself makes up Euro 9 Bn which may come down by 10-15% and eventually become Euro 7.5 Bn.

On figure which may not change much but may get under different heads is customization part. Estimated around Euro 2 Bn. If India has requested for a customized Snecma M88 like say Snecma M88 - INDE over Snecma M88-4E then this itself will cost good. Bcz we operate at very extreme weather and altitudes, no one knows for sure that if Rafale has to say Cross the Himalayas what would be the effect of the same in its MTOW especially since Rafale is suppose to do more of terrain hugging low altitude flying capable.. Perhaps wary of such a move, India may have requested for a customized engine development for Indian Rafales to operate under such extreme conditions and challenging needs.

On top a new engine will mean few thing surely

• India wont settle for just 54 for a customized engine
• The new engine development even if its ongoing will take at least 2 years so yes Indian rafales should come in 3 years minimum
• A increase in thrust by 5%-10% implies a much better scenario for A2A role.

The biggest challenge perhaps is the fact that almost a decade and few years here and there back, at one point of time, India did indicate a humongous crush for Mirages. The expectation was huge, the love never seen before and a commitment in verbal terms for very high 100s in fact closer to 150s which alas broke down to just 50 odd numbers.

France is wary of a repeat of such story. And this time GOI is also playing a bit smart with at least indicating the requirement in writing so that a confidence can be given which cannot be broken. But i still believe France is not trusting us fully. Its understandable in that sense.

So if this how turns out than Euro 9.5 - Euro 9 Bn. Engine development cost will be high. That customization will cost us a good amount within Euro 2Bn. Thus bringing it down below Euro 9 Bn will require extreme political will on the part of France to have faith that India will order much higher numbers and wont go for just 54.

 

[phancong]

agreement Btw two Govt Already Signed During Hollande visit to India its Just Technicalities which will sorted out in few weeks As stated .My dassault in its Press Release
http://indianexpress.com/article/explained/rafales-to-form-two-squadrons-of-indian-air-force/
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...as-been-marginally-reduced/article8158853.ece

Wasn't Modi visited French last yr for the purpose of getting the government agreement for the Rafael deal? The deal can't be sign because of the price disagreement that been the sticking point for the deal to be sign in the last 4 yrs of negotiation.

It's all about money stupid

 

[Alphacharlie]

Now Now Now......

This page is flooded with Utter Rubbish.

Become Gentlemen and think what will be Rebuttal from your Nation

 

[cerberus]

Wasn't Modi visited French last yr for the purpose of getting the government agreement for the Rafael deal? The deal can't be sign because of the price disagreement that been the sticking point for the deal to be sign in the last 4 yrs of negotiation.

It's all about money stupid

Last year Nothing Signed, But IGA is Signed BTW two govt on 25 Jan 2016 Itself Btw two Leaders of Both countries
Price Negotiation is Different but it will be concluded in 4 weeks Give or take
You see French came down From 11 billion $ to 9.6 billion $ in matter of Two days That shows you how things Moving Fast

As For money French investing 50 % offset back to india
other than this French are committed to invest 10 Billion $ in MII projects in next five years

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

The price is just too high. It would be unethical to accept such a deal.

The French have already sunken their fixed costs, any additional fighters produced should bring down the cost of each new fighter.

11 Billion is daylight robbery.

 

[phancong]

Last year Nothing Signed, But IGA is Signed BTW two govt on 25 Jan 2016 Itself Btw two Leaders of Both countries
Price Negotiation is Different but it will be concluded in 4 weeks Give or take
You see French came down From 11 billion $ to 9.6 billion $ in matter of Two days That shows you how things Moving Fast

This deal have been in negotiation over 5 yrs, as of now the deal still not sign.

 

[kaykay]

Damn 10 years back MOTHER OF ALL DEFENCE DEALS worth around $12 billion
and now only 36 aircraft worth $12 Billion ... That's such an embarrassment that even today the deal is not fully secured.

Now we can surely declare it as DADDY OF ALL DEFENCE DEALS

Sir jee better focus on 36 J-10 deal which is nowhere to be seen

 

[cerberus]

This deal have been in negotiation over 5 yrs, as of now the deal still not sign.

You Wasting your Time IGA Agreement is concluded Signed by both Leaders If not have seen that your Loss
Files are exchanged none other than by DM himself.
As For Signing Industrial Document with Dassault its Not Leaders Job But Bureaucracy
Political Document is Signed By Both Leaders on 25 Jan 2016 Itself

 

[kaykay]

This deal have been in negotiation over 5 yrs, as of now the deal still not sign.

Let it be sir...why are you so butthurt? And change you flag or ashamed of it?

 

[slapshot]

Damn 10 years back MOTHER OF ALL DEFENCE DEALS worth around $12 billion
and now only 36 aircraft worth $12 Billion ... That's such an embarrassment that even today the deal is not fully secured.

Now we can surely declare it as DADDY OF ALL DEFENCE DEALS

I was confused about all the news and threads, it seems deal is still not done.

 

[cerberus]

The price is just too high. It would be unethical to accept such a deal.

The French have already sunken their fixed costs, any additional fighters produced should bring down the cost of each new fighter.

11 Billion is daylight robbery.

If you Don't seen the Headline of Thread Its you Irony

I was confused about all the news and threads, it seems deal is still not done.

Its Because you Don't Technical capacity to Understand It,
Govt-to-Govt Agreement are signed and Exchanged on 25 jan itself Should i paste Video For you

 

[Razia Sultana]

France Reduces Rafale Price Just a Little
Published January 28, 2016
SOURCE: Express News Service

The French have “marginally” reduced the price of Rafale combat jets but not to the level, where the Indian Air Force is targeting to clinch the deal, said a senior official of the defence ministry. The much-talked about deal could not be inked during French President Francois Hollande’s visit due to the price issue.

Officials said India was seeking a deeper price cut and the multi-billion dollar deal could take at least another six weeks to be finalised. The price for 36 Rafales, as per the UPA tender, keeping the cost escalation and dollar rate in view, comes to over 12 billion Euros. This includes the cost involved in making changes that India has sought in the aircraft, including Israeli helmet-mounted display and some specific weaponry, among others.

“The effort is to bring down the price to around Euros 8 billion,” the sources said, adding that the actual price negotiations only started from January 21. “They have come down from the original price as per the earlier tender of the UPA but we expect more,” they said. Prime Minister Modi and Hollande had agreed to conclude an Inter-governmental agreement for supply of the aircraft “on terms that would be better than conveyed by Dassault Aviation

I just hope we are not applying the same negotiation skills that we do while buying vegetables. Or is it that french are unable to understand the under-the-table stuffs... such inordinate delay even after realizing it, makes one wonder what is holding up the deal. I thought 36 ready to fly rafales will not have any tedious negotiations.
Secondly, I really wonder what is so unique about IAF's requirements. Almost all the fighter jets have been tweaked to suit IAF requirement, be it SU-30mki, mirage 2k, LCA tejas and now rafales.

 

[slapshot]

Its Because you Don't Technical capacity to Understand It,
Govt-to-Govt Agreement are signed and Exchanged on 25 jan itself Should i paste Video For you

Yeah sure we do lack such ability since we are not able to understand it since last decade. We will believe when we see the Jets serving in IAF. Good Luck

 

[Dash]

On figure which may not change much but may get under different heads is customization part. Estimated around Euro 2 Bn. If India has requested for a customized Snecma M88 like say Snecma M88 - INDE over Snecma M88-4E then this itself will cost good. Bcz we operate at very extreme weather and altitudes, no one knows for sure that if Rafale has to say Cross the Himalayas what would be the effect of the same in its MTOW especially since Rafale is suppose to do more of terrain hugging low altitude flying capable.. Perhaps wary of such a move, India may have requested for a customized engine development for Indian Rafales to operate under such extreme conditions and challenging needs.

If that's the case Rafale wont have got selected at the first place.

To me the cost accumulation looks like this.
1. French want to recover certain cost due to loss of their original equipment, as a result of customization asked by India. although details of it is unknown but still, a factor.
2. Availability of spares and support for 10 years in a go along with weapons. This 10 yrs thing will be inflation adjusted and a depreciating Indian currency will bundle it up further.
3. For the point above, the French will have to open support centres, and have to invest quite a bit amount in creating a maintenance units, which is an additional cost.
4. If availability rate of an MKI is now 60% then out of 272 total lets say you 163 planes ready at any moment. but as this deal is about 36+14 (unclear), we will need 90% availability from day one meaning a large sum of money.

The biggest challenge perhaps is the fact that almost a decade and few years here and there back, at one point of time, India did indicate a humongous crush for Mirages. The expectation was huge, the love never seen before and a commitment in verbal terms for very high 100s in fact closer to 150s which alas broke down to just 50 odd numbers.

The crush for Mirage was crushed forever when the additional 120 which were supposed to be made in India were shelved permanently due to some reasons. But this time you are not in a position to tell the French to trust you about further orders, economically making it costlier. And mind you, they are a French company with similar Investment as LM, but their customer base is relatively smaller, hence a little leniency could be given.

Well, at the end of the day, I see this deal sealed somewhere @ 9 billion.

 

[kaykay]

Yeah sure we do lack such ability since we are not able to understand it since last decade. We will believe when we see the Jets serving in IAF. Good Luck

Dude you better focus on that J-10 dead deal...... thats no where to be seen....Leave Rafale for us Indians to concern about.