France invoked article 42.7 of the Lisbon treaty

[-SINAN-]

Its exactly my point abt contradictions, intent, interests when US itself is supporting Kurds.

Mate, first of all; We are not against Kurds. You know Peshmerga recently liberated Sincar. Those units whom conducted the operation has been trained in Turkey by Turkish officers. We have good relations with KRG.

But YPG and PKK are on the other hand are different.

If Turkey would fight ISIS on ITS borders there would no need to support the Kurds.The Kurds fight ISIS on the ground so they need help.

So, Nusra also fights against ISIS ? Why we don't help them ? Because they are Al-Qaeda affiliated.

However there is no wrong to support YPG which is PKK affiliated..... see the hypocrisy ?

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Turkey asked for medium-long range SAM's at its borders,Turkey got that.They didn't ask for 500k troops to defend them......from what ?!?




.

To defend them? Why not then u should have defended the French nation and Americans, why bother to invade other countries and go on a rampage after 9/11?

The best DEFENSE IS THE BEST OFFENCE thats why!

Now if yr still adamant on that ''moral duty'' argument that u gave earlier then it should be applied here too.
No contradictions this time.

 

[Slav Defence]

Capital of Isis is Raqqa in Syria. Iraq is just a side business for Isis. The real issue here is Syria.

US has not been very successful in Afghanistan. After 14 years, they are now negotiating with Taliban for a truce. Imagine if after 14 years of aerial bombardment and occupation, they will have to do the same here.

The solution is to strengthen the state institutions of Syria particularly its military in order to bring back order to that region. This would mean French planes providing air support for Assad military to go and take back the country. This would mean France giving foreign military aid to Assad.

But since they burnt all the bridges with Assad, they have been left with the only option of dropping 16 bombs from 10 planes on some buildings in the middle of the desert which the zombies do not care one iota for.

Situation on the ground calls for a 180 degree policy change for France (and even for US). Their hubris does not allow them to take such a decision. So expect a few sorties, and nothing else. The only real long lasting effect this tragedy will have would be the curbing of civil freedoms in French society and enacting a kid gloved police state, mass surveillance and propagation of xenophobia.

Excellent post sir,you made my day.
However,I have noticed,that France is being pulled into something which France herself don't want to.I swear that I also want to see these terrorist hanged and ISIS free world.I know that how it feels when young kids are being shot on their head,just b/c they are Pakistani citizens.I know how it feels,when you hear that a school of army men has been destroyed and heavily attacked by terrorists b/c they were working for kaafir government.Whether they are french or Pakistani,we all are equally kaafir for them.
But Pakistan has experienced far beyond then that.Terrorists who claimed to be muslims were caught with satanic tattoes on their back,those terrorists who attack on Islamabad airport.Many are killed and are found with bar codes on their thighs.

Pakistan has learned alot and that is why Pakistan had changed her foreign policy.She stepped forward and made deal with Russians for weapons and military equipment.
It has been discussed that talibans were manipulated and funded by foreign forces,which could be any agency etc.
Anyways,what I want to focus is that these terrorists must be destroyed and eliminated and France must make sure that she is taking right decision and I strongly believe they will.


regards

 

[Umair Nawaz]

If Turkey would fight ISIS on ITS borders there would no need to support the Kurds.The Kurds fight ISIS on the ground so they need help.

explain.

 

[flamer84]

However there is no wrong to support YPG which is PKK affiliated..... see the hypocrisy ?

Not really...We didn't see much evidence of YPG affiliation to PKK or their terrorist activity against Turkey,we've seen them fight ISIS though.If you ask me,they're at the end of a propaganda campaign by Turkey against the formation of a Kurdish state/entity to their South.

explain.

If Turkish troops would enter Syria instead of looking like some cinema goers at ISIS beheading civilians,there would be no need to support the Kurds fighting against ISIS.

 

[-SINAN-]

We didn't see much evidence of YPG affiliation to PKK or their terrorist activity against Turkey

Where didn't you see ??? In the Western media... do you honestly think that, they will show you something like that ?.

They are the shadow of the Western interests in the ground, protector of innocent, beacon of bravery.

Report: Syrian Kurdish forces razed Arab villages - Al Jazeera English

You can't see these in Western media ? Do you know how many PKK terrorists we catched while they were escaping ISIS siege of Kobane ? Or PKK'sr Anti Tank rockets which have been acquired from Syria ?

 

[Penguin]

When turks were bombed i didnt saw anyone talking abt this.......

Why r western European lives more important then Eastern European ones?

The Treaty of Lisbon (initially known as the Reform Treaty) is an international agreement which amends the two treaties which form the constitutional basis of the European Union (EU). The Treaty of Lisbon was signed by the EU member states on 13 December 2007, and entered into force on 1 December 2009

Last time I check, Turkey wasn't a member of the EU.

No one gave a damn while 60000 Pakistanis have died. Its clear our blood is far cheaper than theirs.

Last time I checked, Pakistan wasn't a EU member

 

[Umair Nawaz]

If Turkish troops would enter Syria instead of looking like some cinema goers at ISIS beheading civilians,there would be no need to support the Kurds fighting against ISIS.

ISIS is thing of today my dear, by today i mean in the last 5 years or a decade since american invasion of iraq. But PKK etc r 40 years old thingy. TURKS R FIGHTING THEM SINCE.
Besides the Paris attack just happened a few days ago while Turkish twin bombing happened a month ago.

So i dont see how that argument is valid. BTW Turkey is supporting the ISIS because it has American backing on this too u know.I dont know if u know this or not.

Its another contradiction u know based on interests.

The Treaty of Lisbon (initially known as the Reform Treaty) is an international agreement which amends the two treaties which form the constitutional basis of the European Union (EU). The Treaty of Lisbon was signed by the EU member states on 13 December 2007, and entered into force on 1 December 2009

Last time I check, Turkey wasn't a member of the EU.


Last time I checked, Pakistan wasn't a EU member

NATO

 

[Penguin]

NATO.

But (perhaps rather tellingly) France didn't choose to invoke the art 5 of that treaty.
Turkey is free to do that if it so chooses (but it hasn't)

 

[mike2000 is back]

Think again:

We stand by you, Gen Raheel tells Turkish counterpart - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

You are comparing apple and oranges. many countries also 'stand by' Turkey or any other country who faced terrorism. The hell, even Tunisia 'stands by' France during its terrorist attack.lol
However, 'standing by' or declaring a day of mourning for another country attacks and being prepared to go all the way to militarily aid/join an ally in a war are two different things.
For example if Russia was to invade turkey, then its NATO not Pakistan who will be there fighting Russia since we are bound by a defence treaty to do so, while other countries will vocally 'stand by' Turkey or at most offer some small assistance.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Not really...We didn't see much evidence of YPG affiliation to PKK or their terrorist activity against Turkey,we've seen them fight ISIS though.If you ask me,they're at the end of a propaganda campaign by Turkey against the formation of a Kurdish state/entity to their South.




If Turkish troops would enter Syria instead of looking like some cinema goers at ISIS beheading civilians,there would be no need to support the Kurds fighting against ISIS.

U would be surprised to know that Turkey has more evidence of that then what US of A had against Al Qaeda or Taliban abt 9/11, which actually wasnt deeply investigated too

But (perhaps rather tellingly) France didn't choose to invoke the art 5 of that treaty.
Turkey is free to do that if it so chooses (but it hasn't)

@Sinan has gave answer to that in post@79
You know about the PKK attacks in Turkey ? EUs says "Turkey should response proportional to terror groups".
EU and US urge proportional Turkish response to armed groups | Middle East Eye

Not to forget that US aiding PYD offshoot of PKK.


Now how would you react like if Turkish officials says "France must be proportional in it's attacks against ISIS"
Or how would US react if we supply 50 Tons of military equipment to Al-Nusra ???

Source: France invoked article 42.7 of the Lisbon treaty | Page 6

 

[bsruzm]

You are comparing apple and oranges.

I know what I am talking about in response to such sentence:
''When attacks happen in Turkey,Pakistan and whatsoever else muslim countries,muslims countries almost shows no sympathy,aren't in solidarity with you''

In that case, I think it is you, comparing NATO with Pakistan's sympathy and solidarity.

 

[Daneshmand]

Excellent post sir,you made my day.
However,I have noticed,that France is being pulled into something which France herself don't want to.I swear that I also want to see these terrorist hanged and ISIS free world.I know that how it feels when young kids are being shot on their head,just b/c they are Pakistani citizens.I know how it feels,when you hear that a school of army men has been destroyed and heavily attacked by terrorists b/c they were working for kaafir government.Whether they are french or Pakistani,we all are equally kaafir for them.
But Pakistan has experienced far beyond then that.Terrorists who claimed to be muslims were caught with satanic tattoes on their back,those terrorists who attack on Islamabad airport.Many are killed and are found with bar codes on their thighs.

Pakistan has learned alot and that is why Pakistan had changed her foreign policy.She stepped forward and made deal with Russians for weapons and military equipment.
It has been discussed that talibans were manipulated and funded by foreign forces,which could be any agency etc.
Anyways,what I want to focus is that these terrorists must be destroyed and eliminated and France must make sure that she is taking right decision and I strongly believe they will.


regards

You are always welcome, bro.

I do not think there is any disagreement over the issue of necessity to cleanse the world from such zombies. At least among the world's public, Muslim or not. The issue is, how to do it. Because I do not see France being ready to deploy a quarter million strong army on the Isis playing ground for the next half a century. The aerial bombardment and joystick controlled drones wont do it. Even in Pakistan, the military had to go in and stay put in those areas. Any vacuum left would become breeding ground for the zombies.

But France has its share of responsibility in this regard. For 4 years now, French propaganda machine was flaming the war in Syria, with thousands of French citizens some of whom the new French converts to Islam freely going to Syria in order to take part in the civil war. France was instrumental in turning Syria into this mess. Let's not forget that just about a year ago, France had announced to go to war with Assad to protect these zombies and only when Obama backed down, that the French suddenly disappeared from the scene.

There are Muslim ghettos in France wherein French government has allowed for Takfiri preachers in madrassas to indoctrinate Muslim youths for decades now. And mind you but Muslims make up quite a substantial segment of French society (~10%).

The pictures that you have posted are those youths or the new converts from ghettos, often with gang associations who were trying to find a new meaning in their pathetic lives with the aid of Takfiri preachers funded by a well known state named after a family which is allied with France.

Your call for them to learn from Pakistan will not be attended. There is too much hubris for that to happen. They still think they can meet their original wider geostrategic goals, namely containment of Russia, Iran and China by using Takfiri proxies. Syria is just one battle ground in this realpolitik game of high stakes. What they are failing to understand is that, using such dark forces in order to stem the rise of other sovereign powers, be they China, Pakistan, Iran and Russia will only backfire since we are living on the same planet. The dark forces will inevitably take a life of their own and come back biting the hands that are feeding them.

A military lesson that can be learnt from this would be: Do not create an (proxy) army that you will not be able to control later on. Specially if that army is made up of zombies and monsters.

These guys were thinking that by employing the strategy of creating chaos, their strategic enemies will be weakened and become confused. The irony is, it is themselves who are being weakened and confused.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

You are comparing apple and oranges. many countries also 'stand by' Turkey or any other country who faced terrorism. The hell, even Tunisia 'stands by' France during its terrorist attack.lol
However, 'standing by' or declaring a day of mourning for another country attacks and being prepared to go all the way to militarily aid/join an ally in a war are two different things.
For example if Russia was to invade turkey, then its NATO not Pakistan who will be there fighting Russia since we are bound by a defence treaty to do so, while other countries will vocally 'stand by' Turkey or at most offer some small assistance.

We dont give lollipops to our allies...read the article first, dont judge it from just title.


''On a three-day visit to Turkey beginning Monday, General Raheel visited the headquarters of the Turkish Land Forces, where he met the Turkish army chief and discussed "enhanced cooperation" on the future direction of counter terrorism, DG ISPR Asim Bajwa said in a series of tweets on Twitter.''

We stand by you, Gen Raheel tells Turkish counterpart - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

 

[Slav Defence]

You are always welcome, bro.

I do not think there is any disagreement over the issue of necessity to cleanse the world from such zombies. At least among the world's public, Muslim or not. The issue is, how to do it. Because I do not see France being ready to deploy a quarter million strong army on the Isis playing ground for the next half a century. The aerial bombardment and joystick controlled drones wont do it. Even in Pakistan, the military had to go in and stay put in those areas. Any vacuum left would become breeding ground for the zombies.

But France has its share of responsibility in this regard. For 4 years now, French propaganda machine was flaming the war in Syria, with thousands of French citizens some of whom the new French converts to Islam freely going to Syria in order to take part in the civil war. France was instrumental in turning Syria into this mess. Let's not forget that just about a year ago, France had announced to go to war with Assad to protect these zombies and only when Obama backed down, that the French suddenly disappeared from the scene.

There are Muslim ghettos in France wherein French government has allowed for Takfiri preachers in madrassas to indoctrinate Muslim youths for decades now. And mind you but Muslims make up quite a substantial segment of French society (~10%).

The pictures that you have posted are those youths or the new converts from ghettos, often with gang associations who were trying to find a new meaning in their pathetic lives with the aid of Takfiri preachers funded by a well known state named after a family which is allied with France.

Your call for them to learn from Pakistan will not be attended. There is too much hubris for that to happen. They still think they can meet their original wider geostrategic goals, namely containment of Russia, Iran and China by using Takfiri proxies. Syria is just one battle ground in this realpolitik game of high stakes. What they are failing to understand is that, using such dark forces in order to stem the rise of other sovereign powers, be they China, Pakistan, Iran and Russia will only backfire since we are living on the same planet. The dark forces will inevitably take a life of their own and come back biting the hands that are feeding them.

A military lesson that can be learnt from this would be: Do not create an (proxy) army that you will not be able to control later on. Specially if that army is made up of zombies and monsters.

These guys were thinking that by employing the strategy of creating chaos, their strategic enemies will be weakened and become confused. The irony is, it is themselves who are being weakened and confused.

I beg to differ with tattooed guy as 'converted spoiled brat' that is not the only case.We have also got American CIA agency Black water working up in Pakistan.Raymond Davis was arrested with some sensitive info which he was trying to get,also a local contractor was arrested for such agencies.Plus,militants who are spoiled brat are not provided with proper bar codes on thighs my friend.Moreover,since they are newly converted,therefore first thing they will do is to seek ways to remove them from their body as they will be obsessed with 'haram' or halal.So,the theme was to destabilize Pakistan by funding talibans on one hand while on other,to prove that Pakistan is incapable to keep nuclear weapons,but alhamdullilah..things turned out to be great.There were more reasons on basis of which Pakistan has turned out to Russia,I know that because I live here.


regards