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India’s Acquisition of the S-400 Air Defense System: Implications and Options for Pakistan

That is true, but the S-400 is still a major look or threat to PAF. It is better we overestimate our enemies this way we will come more prepared to battle.

One option is getting ToT of the DF-17 from China. If Pakistan can get th DF-17 from China we can destroy the S-400 batteries given we can locate them at their bases.
1662210019433.png

Have you ever wondered how ballistic cum cruise missile like Shaurya survives the high aero-thermal loads experienced while flying at highly depressed trajectories (like a cruise missile) at hypersonic speeds of ~ 8 Mach ?One way to deal with that is to ensure uniform heat distribution over the missile body (prevent sustained localised heating)

This is done by rolling the missile while inflight via deflection of rear fin in the tandem fins configuration which results in a corkscrew effect forcing the missile to roll

There is also a ablative coating which not only provides thermal protection but also reduces drag & increases range
1662210176923.png


This allows Shaurya to survive while flying low within the dense atmosphere like a cruise missile at high hypersonic speeds
Similar Tandem Fin configuration is also seen in SMART & PRALAY missiles

Which IMO implies that both SMART & PRALAY also posses the capability to execute (and survive) flight trajectories similar to ballistic cum cruise missiles (eg depressed trajectories) if so required

I'm sure Pakistan already has counters
You're forgetting the effectiveness of other air defence systems in India's arsenal like Barak 8, QRSAM, Akash Prime and Spyder
Indian ABM shield is coming up soon.
BDL quietly and away from fanfare recieved orders for unspecified numbers of PAD/AAD missiles.
 
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View attachment 875794
Have you ever wondered how ballistic cum cruise missile like Shaurya survives the high aero-thermal loads experienced while flying at highly depressed trajectories (like a cruise missile) at hypersonic speeds of ~ 8 Mach ?One way to deal with that is to ensure uniform heat distribution over the missile body (prevent sustained localised heating)

This is done by rolling the missile while inflight via deflection of rear fin in the tandem fins configuration which results in a corkscrew effect forcing the missile to roll

There is also a ablative coating which not only provides thermal protection but also reduces drag & increases range
View attachment 875796

This allows Shaurya to survive while flying low within the dense atmosphere like a cruise missile at high hypersonic speeds
Similar Tandem Fin configuration is also seen in SMART & PRALAY missiles

Which IMO implies that both SMART & PRALAY also posses the capability to execute (and survive) flight trajectories similar to ballistic cum cruise missiles (eg depressed trajectories) if so required


You're forgetting the effectiveness of other air defence systems in India's arsenal like Barak 8, QRSAM, Akash Prime and Spyder
Indian ABM shield is coming up soon.
BDL quietly and away from fanfare recieved orders for unspecified numbers of PAD/AAD missiles.
You can't intercept the DF-17. Currently it has no countermeasures. If Pakistan can manage to get DF-17 we can render all Barak 8 and S-400 useless.
 
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You can't intercept the DF-17. Currently it has no countermeasures. If Pakistan can manage to get DF-17 we can render all of your air defence useless.
Read my post again.

HGV tech are yet to be mastered by the Chinese. And HGVs are very expensive to maintain and by looking at the economic conditions of Pakistan it is simply not feasible for you guys to own HGV
 
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No single Weapon system acts as a magic or silver bullet to win you a war. Its the System of Systems which wins. Layering the defense and networking is the key.

The Indian media has fallen into a habit of hailing every new arms import – be it the Rafale jets, Barak-8 missiles, M-777 howitzers or the like – as something that would steamroll the enemy in no time. This does not happen in real life.
Russians have a nack of jacking - up systems and its capability to counter counter-measures in particular are overrated to say the least.

1662212610195.png


"..Aerospace expert Douglas Barrie at the International Institute for Strategic Studies think tank, told Defense News the S-400 “should not be underestimated, neither should it be over-estimated. Its much-touted maximum engagement range is dependent on the variant of surface-to-air missile deployed, the acquisition ranges of the associated radars in the operational area, the capacity of the personnel to effectively exploit the system, and also the steps and countermeasures any opponent might take.its effectiveness against ballistic or cruise missiles is open to question and will depend on a variety of factors.
At a basic level, the S-400's field of view for the search and fire control radar is limited to the horizon of the earth. Because of this common limitation, search radars are typically placed on tall masts to better see over the horizon. S-400, and other powerful HIMADS system, are vulnerable to a low-altitude attack by cruise missiles, which, in large numbers, can overwhelm an air defense system."


Induction of S-400 was well known for years. A proper welcoming committee comprising of various options would be ready to neutralise it.

S-400 has been carefully studied by Chinese and practiced against by J-10Cs using SEAD missions at Low Sweeps and HARM missiles just as one piece of puzzle.
The AD system in Highly EW environment - attacked from various sources such as SOW, GMRLS, MIRV , Salvo of Cruise Missiles with decoys for saturation etc. Additionally, suppression or even destruction of the S-400 could be aided by effective electronic warfare measures — a capability Pakistan demonstrated when its Air Force successfully launched retaliatory strikes into Indian-held territory during a flare-up in February 2019.

The S-400 system itself becomes a Prime target as soon as it starts operating since the e-information always flows both ways.

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Lastly- Officially admitted that Indian Air Force high rank officials got terminated from service for the violation of SOPs' over 'accidental BrahMos firing 'incident. We can safely assume either its the result of 'High degree of training and well placed SOPs ' or...? One can imagine what would be the fate of Poor S-400 ....!
 
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You're forgetting the effectiveness of other air defence systems in India's arsenal like Barak 8, QRSAM, Akash Prime and Spyder
Indian ABM shield is coming up soon.
BDL quietly and away from fanfare recieved orders for unspecified numbers of PAD/AAD missiles.
So effective, that they did absolutely nothing during operation swift retort
 
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No single Weapon system acts as a magic or silver bullet to win you a war. Its the System of Systems which wins. Layering the defense and networking is the key.

The Indian media has fallen into a habit of hailing every new arms import – be it the Rafale jets, Barak-8 missiles, M-777 howitzers or the like – as something that would steamroll the enemy in no time. This does not happen in real life.
Russians have a nack of jacking - up systems and its capability to counter counter-measures in particular are overrated to say the least.

View attachment 875803

"..Aerospace expert Douglas Barrie at the International Institute for Strategic Studies think tank, told Defense News the S-400 “should not be underestimated, neither should it be over-estimated. Its much-touted maximum engagement range is dependent on the variant of surface-to-air missile deployed, the acquisition ranges of the associated radars in the operational area, the capacity of the personnel to effectively exploit the system, and also the steps and countermeasures any opponent might take.its effectiveness against ballistic or cruise missiles is open to question and will depend on a variety of factors.
At a basic level, the S-400's field of view for the search and fire control radar is limited to the horizon of the earth. Because of this common limitation, search radars are typically placed on tall masts to better see over the horizon. S-400, and other powerful HIMADS system, are vulnerable to a low-altitude attack by cruise missiles, which, in large numbers, can overwhelm an air defense system."


Induction of S-400 was well known for years. A proper welcoming committee comprising of various options would be ready to neutralise it.

S-400 has been carefully studied by Chinese and practiced against by J-10Cs using SEAD missions at Low Sweeps and HARM missiles just as one piece of puzzle.
The AD system in Highly EW environment - attacked from various sources such as SOW, GMRLS, MIRV , Salvo of Cruise Missiles with decoys for saturation etc. Additionally, suppression or even destruction of the S-400 could be aided by effective electronic warfare measures — a capability Pakistan demonstrated when its Air Force successfully launched retaliatory strikes into Indian-held territory during a flare-up in February 2019.

The S-400 system itself becomes a Prime target as soon as it starts operating since the e-information always flows both ways.

-------------------------------------------------------

Lastly- Officially admitted that Indian Air Force high rank officials got terminated from service for the violation of SOPs' over 'accidental BrahMos firing 'incident. We can safely assume either its the result of 'High degree of training and well placed SOPs ' or...? One can imagine what would be the fate of Poor S-400 ....!
Oh man, Pakistan’s own NSA was saying that they weren’t informed of the strike for 2 days

So their response to a first strike weapon landing deep in their territory was entirely organic

What a moronic admission

Pakistanis have botched their response to this SO badly it’s unbelievable. They went ahead and put the PAF account on record- we didn’t intercept, we don’t know what happened. Now your own NSA was caught saying that they had no communications

They could’ve shut up, been silent for 2 days and pressured the Indian side to make a public statement and then said we were told about this that’s why we watched the entire sequence but stood down our AD. Even if it was a human error it successfully managed to penetrate deep into the territory of 🇵🇰, key point is we have demonstrated HQ9 (🇨🇳)or none of their ADS can intercept the high speed projectile, So the objective is clear and louder
 
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Oh man, Pakistan’s own NSA was saying that they weren’t informed of the strike for 2 days

So their response to a first strike weapon landing deep in their territory was entirely organic

What a moronic admission

Pakistanis have botched their response to this SO badly it’s unbelievable. They went ahead and put the PAF account on record- we didn’t intercept, we don’t know what happened. Now your own NSA was caught saying that they had no communications

They could’ve shut up, been silent for 2 days and pressured the Indian side to make a public statement and then said we were told about this that’s why we watched the entire sequence but stood down our AD. Even if it was a human error it successfully managed to penetrate deep into the territory of 🇵🇰, key point is we have demonstrated HQ9 (🇨🇳)or none of their ADS can intercept the high speed projectile, So the objective is clear and louder
Write a pointed technical response. No Stories.
I expected something better.
Other wise keep dreaming.
 
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Oh man, Pakistan’s own NSA was saying that they weren’t informed of the strike for 2 days

So their response to a first strike weapon landing deep in their territory was entirely organic

What a moronic admission

Pakistanis have botched their response to this SO badly it’s unbelievable. They went ahead and put the PAF account on record- we didn’t intercept, we don’t know what happened. Now your own NSA was caught saying that they had no communications

They could’ve shut up, been silent for 2 days and pressured the Indian side to make a public statement and then said we were told about this that’s why we watched the entire sequence but stood down our AD. Even if it was a human error it successfully managed to penetrate deep into the territory of 🇵🇰, key point is we have demonstrated HQ9 (🇨🇳)or none of their ADS can intercept the high speed projectile, So the objective is clear and louder
Where was all your AD when PAF dominated the skies during op swift retort?
 
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View attachment 875794
Have you ever wondered how ballistic cum cruise missile like Shaurya survives the high aero-thermal loads experienced while flying at highly depressed trajectories (like a cruise missile) at hypersonic speeds of ~ 8 Mach ?One way to deal with that is to ensure uniform heat distribution over the missile body (prevent sustained localised heating)

This is done by rolling the missile while inflight via deflection of rear fin in the tandem fins configuration which results in a corkscrew effect forcing the missile to roll

There is also a ablative coating which not only provides thermal protection but also reduces drag & increases range
View attachment 875796

This allows Shaurya to survive while flying low within the dense atmosphere like a cruise missile at high hypersonic speeds
Similar Tandem Fin configuration is also seen in SMART & PRALAY missiles

Which IMO implies that both SMART & PRALAY also posses the capability to execute (and survive) flight trajectories similar to ballistic cum cruise missiles (eg depressed trajectories) if so required


You're forgetting the effectiveness of other air defence systems in India's arsenal like Barak 8, QRSAM, Akash Prime and Spyder
Indian ABM shield is coming up soon.
BDL quietly and away from fanfare recieved orders for unspecified numbers of PAD/AAD missiles.
Indian ABM though inadequate is already functional

You can't intercept the DF-17. Currently it has no countermeasures. If Pakistan can manage to get DF-17 we can render all Barak 8 and S-400 useless.
Issues
1.DF-17 isn't cheap.
2. Not sure if China is willing to supply Pakistan with such missile system. The question of targeting Indian AD won't arise if China isn't willing for the same
3. You need real time info about the target position, be it Humint or Elint. Pakistan's mediocre Elint won't be of much help in active war scenarios (China or another ally might provide such data, but does Pak has capacity to utilise the same?)
 
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The Ukraine war has shown one thing: be afraid of the Russian end products, especially if you are a user of one of them....
 
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Where was all your ADs when IAF dominated your skies for nearly 20 mins during op bandar?

Truthfully they didn't need to do anything as you screwed it up yourselves lol. But to answer, they were tracking your jets and intercepting them. 3 strike packages, 2 were decoys (other iaf fighter sweeps were intercepted as well). The Balakot strike package was intercepted by a CAP. Forced to turn back after crapping it when they were being painted by the PAF jets.

No more ops like Swift retort.
What happened to IAF Su30mki being the mini awacs and Asian Raptor? So called f16 and jf17 won't be able to even take off
 
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Turks knows how to deal it most efficiently, so india wiĺl not gain much with this aquisition.

Both Turks and Chinese have beeing operating S-400 and have shared the S-400 weaknesses with Pakistan.

The Ukraine war has shown one thing: be afraid of the Russian end products, especially if you are a user of one of them....

Russian tech and equipment are a piece of junk.

Russians are way behind US, EU, Turkiye and China in Tech.

Its a big problem for Pakistan. I heard the S-400 can even shot down fighters flying deep in Pak airspace.

Indian S-400s can be destroyed by Chinese and Pakistani Artillery and MRLS.
 
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