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France Imposes New Conditions on Rafale Deal With India

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NEW DELHI — France has quietly insisted that an $8.9 billion government-to-government (G2G) deal with India be signed before a 50 percent offset deal for Rafale fighters is finalized, according to a French Embassy source in India.

"We have concluded multiple discussions with state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and other agencies to execute 30 percent offsets in India's ongoing and futuristic military aerospace programs, but no [offset] deal will be finalized until the final Rafale contract is signed," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

As part of the Rafale deal, France has made a 30 percent offset commitment for military aerospace research and development programs and a 20 percent offset commitment for making components for Rafale fighters with domestic firms in India.

French defense companies Safran, Thales, MBDA and Dassault have also committed to proving stealth, radar, thrust vectoring for missiles technologies and materials for electronics to DRDO and domestic defense companies.


"We simply cannot make [Rafale] negotiations public", said an Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) procurement official, who also spoke on condition of anonymity.

As part of G2G discussions, France has also agreed to kick-start the unsuccessful Kaveri gas turbine jet engine for the homemade light combat aircraft Tejas.

636034032580961729-France-India.jpg

French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, left, and his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar show off the intergovernmental agreements for the purchase of 36 Rafale jet fighters at a joint news conference in New Delhi on Jan. 25, 2016. India and France have signed an agreement on the long-delayed purchase of 36 Rafale jet fighters but have yet to reach a deal on financial issues, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said that same day. (Photo: Prakash Singh/AFP via Getty Images)

At present, the Kaveri engine lacks sufficient power thrust, efficiency and dependability.

An upgraded Kaveri engine with 90 kN thrust can be developed in two years' time with French cooperation, according to the French Embassy source.

Currently the Tejas is powered by a General Electric F404 engine.

"We have detailed discussions with the French teams to revive [the] Kaveri engine project and it is now for MoD to take a final call," according to a senior DRDO scientist, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Meanwhile, the MoD is yet to respond to the Indian Ministry of Law and Justice's findings on the Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) on the Rafale deal, the MoD defense procurement official said.

Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar had informed the parliament May 3 that the federal ministry had reviewed the IGA and that the findings would be taken into account when finalizing the deal.

And prior to that, Dassault chairman Eric Trappier said in an April 13 radio report that he expected a contract could be signed “in the next few days," adding: “I have high hopes this contract could be signed fairly quickly.”


The MoD procurement official said that no negotiations on the Rafale deal between France and India have taken place in more than six weeks, and the next meeting is yet to be scheduled.

In addition to 36 Rafale fighters, India is also buying Mica air-to-air missiles, Scalp air-to-ground missiles, Meteor beyond-visual-range missiles and precision-guided munitions at a cost of $1 billion for immediate requirements, and India is expected to order five years' maintenance and engineering support at a cost of $500 million.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/2016/07/06/rafale-jet-france-india/86752998/
 
The French conditions are FAIR enough

This will pave the way for Kaveri engine
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BTW @kahonapyarhai you should have highlighted the good parts


In addition to 36 Rafale fighters, India is also buying Mica air-to-air missiles,

Scalp air-to-ground missiles,

Meteor beyond-visual-range missiles and precision-guided munitions at a cost of $1 billion for immediate requirements,
and India is expected to order five years' maintenance and engineering support at a cost of $500 million.
 
NEW DELHI — France has quietly insisted that an $8.9 billion government-to-government (G2G) deal with India be signed before a 50 percent offset deal for Rafale fighters is finalized, according to a French Embassy source in India.

"We have concluded multiple discussions with state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and other agencies to execute 30 percent offsets in India's ongoing and futuristic military aerospace programs, but no [offset] deal will be finalized until the final Rafale contract is signed," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

As part of the Rafale deal, France has made a 30 percent offset commitment for military aerospace research and development programs and a 20 percent offset commitment for making components for Rafale fighters with domestic firms in India.

French defense companies Safran, Thales, MBDA and Dassault have also committed to proving stealth, radar, thrust vectoring for missiles technologies and materials for electronics to DRDO and domestic defense companies.


"We simply cannot make [Rafale] negotiations public", said an Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) procurement official, who also spoke on condition of anonymity.

As part of G2G discussions, France has also agreed to kick-start the unsuccessful Kaveri gas turbine jet engine for the homemade light combat aircraft Tejas.

636034032580961729-France-India.jpg

French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, left, and his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar show off the intergovernmental agreements for the purchase of 36 Rafale jet fighters at a joint news conference in New Delhi on Jan. 25, 2016. India and France have signed an agreement on the long-delayed purchase of 36 Rafale jet fighters but have yet to reach a deal on financial issues, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said that same day. (Photo: Prakash Singh/AFP via Getty Images)

At present, the Kaveri engine lacks sufficient power thrust, efficiency and dependability.

An upgraded Kaveri engine with 90 kN thrust can be developed in two years' time with French cooperation, according to the French Embassy source.

Currently the Tejas is powered by a General Electric F404 engine.

"We have detailed discussions with the French teams to revive [the] Kaveri engine project and it is now for MoD to take a final call," according to a senior DRDO scientist, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Meanwhile, the MoD is yet to respond to the Indian Ministry of Law and Justice's findings on the Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) on the Rafale deal, the MoD defense procurement official said.

Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar had informed the parliament May 3 that the federal ministry had reviewed the IGA and that the findings would be taken into account when finalizing the deal.

And prior to that, Dassault chairman Eric Trappier said in an April 13 radio report that he expected a contract could be signed “in the next few days," adding: “I have high hopes this contract could be signed fairly quickly.”


The MoD procurement official said that no negotiations on the Rafale deal between France and India have taken place in more than six weeks, and the next meeting is yet to be scheduled.

In addition to 36 Rafale fighters, India is also buying Mica air-to-air missiles, Scalp air-to-ground missiles, Meteor beyond-visual-range missiles and precision-guided munitions at a cost of $1 billion for immediate requirements, and India is expected to order five years' maintenance and engineering support at a cost of $500 million.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/2016/07/06/rafale-jet-france-india/86752998/
This is more than justified and the case with EVERY SINGLE DEFENCE DEAL, this isn't a "new condition" from the French.

Yet more cr@p to paint the French as greedy and working against India's interests.

The funniest part is these presstitutes have chosen to include the reality of the matter in their own report:

"We simply cannot make [Rafale] negotiations public", said an Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) procurement official, who also spoke on condition of anonymity.

So no one outside of a very select few from India and France have any knowledge of what is going on, least of the Indian media.

@PARIKRAMA @Taygibay @Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio
 
Look I said before in safran engine thread.. if offset is euro 3bn then I understand is this

Offset Euro 3Bn
Offset @50%
Deal Euro 6 Bn or $6.5 Bn
Weapons package $1Bn comprising of scalp Storm shadow meteor and may be precision bombs.. I don't think Mica will be ordered now or may be a very small contingent.

So it's $7.5 Bn

Now if it's $8.9 Bn as article states with $1 Bn weapons then rest is $7.9bn then offset at 50% should be $4bn approx or Euro 3.6 Bn

So now why all over media offset is written nearly Euro 3Bn not nearly Euro 3.5Bn...

I don't understand why things are twisted o show French side as villains.. just now in another forum I was talking with a good sir on how safran deal is good and he was explaining it to bw game changer if true. And how it will benefit us..

I feel look at figures closely and you knw deal price without weapons is now $6.5 Bn d with weapons $7.5 Bn.. something which I have said in sticky some time back.. unless of course something new is added or changed..
 
Btw what's the new imposed condition?

Pls enlighten me so that I can understand.. may be I missed something incredible....

Oh come on bro, you know full well (better than most) why this is happening. It is a very typical strategy that Dassualt's competitors have employed through the presstitutes.
No my friend not so much low down below the belt..
See marketing campaign is fine everybody does but a MIS information campaign Everytime is way too much.. do they feel that tomorrow they are in Dassault place others would give them a free ride.. the world is round.. they gt to understand that Indian folks and government are not fools who will fall for this.. may be a section of gullible mass..

Quietly DCNS has landed things for AIP in India last week.. no media coverage.. just business.. just relationship..

May be time to ask Saab and LM Boeing what have they given like this so strategic to India without much fanfare or advertising..

I think safran offer has ruffled them a bit too much I guess..
 
Btw what's the new imposed condition?

Pls enlighten me so that I can understand.. may be I missed something incredible....

France has quietly insisted that an $8.9 billion government-to-government (G2G) deal with India be signed before a 50 percent offset deal for Rafale fighters is finalized, according to a French Embassy source in India.

"We have concluded multiple discussions with state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and other agencies to execute 30 percent offsets in India's ongoing and futuristic military aerospace programs, but no [offset] deal will be finalized until the final Rafale contract is signed," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
 
No my friend not so much low down below the belt..
See marketing campaign is fine everybody does but a MIS information campaign Everytime is way too much.. do they forget that if tomorrow they are in Dassault place others would give them a free ride.. the world is round.. they gt to understand that Indian folks and government are not fools who will fall for this.. may be a section of gullible mass..
The way I see it (in the Indian context) is that under the past GoI/Defence Minister the only thing that was required to disrupt a defence procurement was an unsigned "anonomous" letter from a competitor. Now that the current DM has said he ignores such blatent attempts to disrupt the procurement process, the competitors have been forced to take the battle to the public domain and are hoping their campaign against Dassualt can lead to another AW like scandel where, despite an absence or evidence, a defence deal is called off by the GoI hoping to protect their "integrity".

There are no dirtier business practices than found in the arms industry and considering the market extends FAR beyond 36 jets the incentive is consdierable.

Quietly DCNS has landed things for AIP in India last week.. no media coverage.. just business.. just relationship..
Any more info on this bro? AIP for the last few Scorpenes?

May be time to ask Saab and LM Boeing what have they given like this so strategic to India without much fanfare or advertising..

Oh if only......
 
Any more info on this bro? AIP for the last few Scorpenes?

I am told things landed.. not much.. too much hush hush.. it will take time for more info to come out..

DRDO aip is not successful so we may see this DCNS aip tech repackaged as our own ...

3 more scorpenes is almost certain.. will sport aip from the start..
 
I am told things landed.. not much.. too much hush hush.. it will take time for more info to come out..

DRDO aip is not successful so we may see this DCNS aip tech repackaged as our own ...

3 more scorpenes is almost certain.. will sport aip from the start..
I am told by a very reliable friend that 3 more Scorpenes are a certainty also but what I would like to see is 6 more with 3 being made at MDL and 3 being made at DCNS's shipyard in France.
 
Hope India didnt demand life time supply of ATF at fixed rate as part of life time cost...lol ..Indians dont treat fish and fighters differently when we have to pay to buy them...we negotiate it pretty hardly ..!. But French are not Russians, they will not give in so easily or may be they will give up the business but wont say that openly!
 
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Honestly speaking than I don't see nothing wrong with that.....Anyway good to know that we are up for Co-operation on the front of 'Stealth, Thrust vectoring, Radar' etc like techs with French.
It's time to start thinking more strategically with defence partners, the days of India being content with merely screwdriver know-how are long gone. If India is paying top dollar for cutting edge kit then it should ensure that it is allowing itself to reap the benefits. The number of opportunties squandered thus far doesn't even warrent thinking about....
 
I am told by a very reliable friend that 3 more Scorpenes are a certainty also but what I would like to see is 6 more with 3 being made at MDL and 3 being made at DCNS's shipyard in France.
Mate by any chance are you in Lyon today?:-)
 

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