Formula for new NSG members leaves Pakistan out: US group

[SBD-3]

US backing is critical. I do not see how USA can convince scores of other countries about Pakistan. India has done a lot of diplomacy to make her case to countries in Europe. Pakistan has never bothered to. In fact Pakistan filed for NSG membership two months before India's membership vote.

It's not about convincing others but the US. If US lobbied for both India and Pakistan, both would have been already included in NSG.
Pakistan's diplomacy is fairly handicapped as long as her image of aiding and abetting extremist outfit is not tackled with solid developments. US, to date, accuses Pakistan for harboring Taliban and Haqqanis. And pretty much the same image is held by Europe in general. India isn't handicapped in this regard or not allowed to thanks to her soft economic power.

 

[wiseone2]

It's not about convincing others but the US. If US lobbied for both India and Pakistan, both would have been already included in NSG.

How do you think the world works ?? USA tells others. Everyone follows Uncle Sam blindly like a slave.

Even Pakistan does not listen to Uncle Sam always. Otherwise Pakistan would not have nukes, would not be backing the Taliban and would not fighting India over Kashmir.

Other countries would have serious reservations about a state with episodes like the AQ Khan affair, OBL raid, troubles with India, support for Taliban, rumors about nukes for Saudis etc. Unless Pakistani diplomats can explain their case to individual states American support will not suffice.

 

[SBD-3]

How do you think the world works ?? USA tells others. Everyone follows Uncle Sam blindly like a slave.

Even Pakistan does not listen to Uncle Sam always. Otherwise Pakistan would not have nukes, would not be backing the Taliban and would not fighting India over Kashmir.

Other countries would have serious reservations about a state with episodes like the AQ Khan affair, OBL raid, troubles with India, support for Taliban, rumors about nukes for Saudis etc. Unless Pakistani diplomats can explain their case to individual states American support will not suffice.

If that's the case then why even a single country from NSG would help Indian Bid other than US? It was only 6 members block that too argued for non admission of Non signatories on NPT , which is technically not directly against India but both India and Pakistan

 

[wiseone2]

If that's the case then why even a single country from NSG would help Indian Bid other than US? It was only 6 members block that too argued for non admission of Non signatories on NPT , which is technically not directly against India but both India and Pakistan

Indian diplomats have worked hard to convince big powers like UK, France, Russia, Japan, Germany. China is the last big power in the way. The smaller countries can be idealistic - Norway, NZ, Switzerland, Austria.

At the end of the day India wants to be a NSG member. Countries will keep it in mind before voting on.
India already has a NSG waiver for commerce.

I do not see any Pakistani interest in NSG waiver or NSG membership. Pakistani drive for NSG membership will force the Pakistani establishment make concessions to address CTBT, FMCT and nuclear proliferation concerns. Pakistani membership application is more an attempt to delay India's aspirations.

 

[Counterpunch]

It is either to check proliferation
Or, it is to provide access to nuclear technology for peaceful purposes

Countries not part of NSG have been doing both of these for quite some time, so I do not think this platform has too much value apart from inflating National prestige

 

[Centurion2016]

India will get nsg

It's just a case of when.

China will fall In line just like the rest.

 

[RISING SUN]

I keep hearing this from a lot of Indians "psshh we don't care we already have all the privileges that NSG membership provides" then why is India pushing so hard for it? Why bother if it doesn't matter?

Why it matters is that waiver allows India to import only while membership will allow India to not only collaborate but export as well. That point is ignored by most posters. But for this separation of civilian and military reactors is mandatory with IAEA full control over in outs of civilian reactors.

India has a waiver from NSG. It has a signed a civil-nuclear deal with US, and recently with Japan. Signed MOU with Russia to build multiple reactors. India is acquiring nuclear technology and material from the world over. So tell me why membership to NSG is important for India besides a prestige issue?

In fact, Pakistan needs entry into NSG more than India.

Because waiver will allow India to import only, not collaborate and export.

Its more of a official status than anything , India has been trading & cooperating on nuclear projects for a decade .

Nope India has been trading but only only one way trade and that is importing only.

Like joining an elite club: it offers nothing else except prestige.

Wrong perception.

First attempt of Pak nuclear asset disclosure

Nope first step in separating Pakistani military and civilian reactors if there are any at all!!!

We will make our own NSG group if Pakistan is Omitted

You have already made in past buddy, forgot North Koreans, Iran, Libya etc!!!!

India's case in NSG is zero without the backing from US. The heavyweights matter.


Well typically speaking, despite NSG trying to keep a lid on militarization and proliferation of nuclear tech. It still cant guarantee that the fuels and tech would be used solely for civilian purposes. Dual use technologies and fuel can be manipulated by the end user. So you continue to see small proliferations, misplacing of nuclear fuels every know and then.

That's correct but for this only there are checks and balances in a system and its pretty much evolving day by day.

This is just for status. It makes no tangible difference to India.

India already has the entire set of rights that NSG members enjoy because of the full waiver granted by NSG to India.

There is literally zero difference between the members sitting in NSG and India in what they can do and trade with respect to all things nuclear...except that we don't sit there.

The trade play (which is the bread and butter of economy and will lead to private nuclear companies in India gaining global footholds) and strategy play (strategic deals being signed with countries ) has been done and won.

This is now just a power play for visual effect. You don't project power till you're in the seat. We have all the privileges that they have, but we are not yet one of them. These are a different set of cards. For India to continue to grow to be a major world power, we must have all the cards.


India is seeking entry into NSG as a "Nuclear Weapons State". The countries above in NSG are not NWS.

The difference is like that between the P5 and the rest in UN. Every country is in UN, but only 5 have the power.

Incorrect.

Pakistan can get support from one and only one country - China. That is because its sales of nuclear reactors to Pakistan is 'grandfathered' under a previous sale that China made before it joined NSG.
No other country in the world can trade or transfer knowhow with Pakistan in nuclear technology.

The case with India was exactly the same - with the one country allowed to trade with India being Russia instead of China and with trade grandfathered under a previous sale... TILL India got the NSG waiver. Now India can trade with every country in the world.

Sorry but that is totally wrong and misconception.

 

[Deadpool]

Why it matters is that waiver allows India to import only while membership will allow India to not only collaborate but export as well. That point is ignored by most posters. But for this separation of civilian and military reactors is mandatory with IAEA full control over in outs of civilian reactors.


Because waiver will allow India to import only, not collaborate and export.


Nope India has been trading but only only one way trade and that is importing only.


Wrong perception.


Nope first step in separating Pakistani military and civilian reactors if there are any at all!!!


You have already made in past buddy, forgot North Koreans, Iran, Libya etc!!!!


That's correct but for this only there are checks and balances in a system and its pretty much evolving day by day.


Sorry but that is totally wrong and misconception.

We are already one of the worlds leading suppliers of Heavy Water.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...rts-heavy-water-to-US/articleshow/1774012.cms

 

[ThaniOruvan]

Even if India get NSG, Pakistan and Israel still getting indirect cooperation from many countries of the world. Now India has sign the strategic logistic partnership with US/NATO. So, allies member should get Indian NSG membership.

Israel, agreed. Pakistan getting co-operation from many countries ?
You are actually saying countries which are flag bearers of non-proliferation like China are supporting you !

India has all credentials to enter NSG. We can manage even if we don't.
Just because China and Pakistan have active border disputes with India doesn't deny India any of her prospects or opportunities.
The world doesn't consider China and Pakistan's opinion. Intellectuals from both nations have to wake up to this reality.
Being a potent clean energy power, with a booming economy and a large market no 'axis' can hurt India much. Buggers should realize and save their faces from isolation and face palms !

 

[RISING SUN]

We are already one of the worlds leading suppliers of Heavy Water.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...rts-heavy-water-to-US/articleshow/1774012.cms

Yes and you are happy with this much only??? NSG is what will bring us in mainstream nuclear trade umbrella with equal footing. Please refer to MEA FAQ. The 48-nation NSG granted a waiver to India on 6 September 2008 allowing it to access civilian nuclear technology and fuel from other countries.

 

[HAIDER]

Israel, agreed. Pakistan getting co-operation from many countries ?
You are actually saying countries which are flag bearers of non-proliferation like China are supporting you !

India has all credentials to enter NSG. We can manage even if we don't.
Just because China and Pakistan have active border disputes with India doesn't deny India any of her prospects or opportunities.
The world doesn't consider China and Pakistan's opinion. Intellectuals from both nations have to wake up to this reality.
Being a potent clean energy power, with a booming economy and a large market no 'axis' can hurt India much. Buggers should realize and save their faces from isolation and face palms !

Its your personal opinion , agitated but ok. You can not mange anything without the support of few countries in the hate of Chinese expansion.

Which countries exactly? Even the Chinese help on current nuclear reactors comes under the technical protection of these reactors being sold prior to China agreed to the terms of NSG and become its member (2004).

Pakistani nuclear labs in the field of medicine are not any type of sanction from anyone. They got material and other equipment without any problem from any European country. Plus, everything is for sale in the open market. Here we talking about govt to govt co operation in enriched class and large power stations.

 

[Zen0]

I keep hearing this from a lot of Indians "psshh we don't care we already have all the privileges that NSG membership provides" then why is India pushing so hard for it? Why bother if it doesn't matter?

Because its the elite club , and has real power .

Why it matters is that waiver allows India to import only while membership will allow India to not only collaborate but export as well. That point is ignored by most posters. But for this separation of civilian and military reactors is mandatory with IAEA full control over in outs of civilian reactors.


Because waiver will allow India to import only, not collaborate and export.


Nope India has been trading but only only one way trade and that is importing only.


Wrong perception.


Nope first step in separating Pakistani military and civilian reactors if there are any at all!!!


You have already made in past buddy, forgot North Koreans, Iran, Libya etc!!!!


That's correct but for this only there are checks and balances in a system and its pretty much evolving day by day.


Sorry but that is totally wrong and misconception.

Because India ia looking to import not sale ,

 

[vikata]

We will make our own NSG group if Pakistan is Omitted

why not the poor world is way below your standards

 

[ThaniOruvan]

Its your personal opinion , agitated but ok. You can not mange anything without the support of few countries in the hate of Chinese expansion.

Few countries ?
It is actually the other way.

 

[The Eagle]

If it has to be done on wish of POTUS like from Bush to Obama then one can assume what is going to happen ASAP Trump takes over the charge who is more of opponent for the outgoing President/Party. However, the fact is, a Nuclear power cannot be ousted much longer from a club and on other hand, if NSG is necessary for Pakistan we will be seeing strong diplomacy working for such.