Formula for new NSG members leaves Pakistan out: US group

[Cookie Monster]

Because its the elite club , and has real power .

Like u many have already stated that point...read the previous discussion...refer to my reply in post #22

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Why is GoI spending so much diplomatic capital on this NSG thingy when India has already established nuclear trade deals with major Nuclear powers and suppliers?

GoI should just let it be. You have pretty much everything you need already.

 

[Cookie Monster]

To them they think they are prestigious.

That's not how prestige works.

For example Ivy League Universities are considered among some of the most prestigious universities on earth not bcuz those Universities think themselves prestigious but bcuz they have earned respect in the world by producing some of the best scholars, carrying out world class research, etc.

In short prestige doesn't come from a nation thinking highly of itself instead it stems from the rest of the world holding that nation/country in high regard.

So plz elaborate again on how joining the NSG would somehow bring prestige.

 

[RISING SUN]

Why is GoI spending so much diplomatic capital on this NSG thingy when India has already established nuclear trade deals with major Nuclear powers and suppliers?

GoI should just let it be. You have pretty much everything you need already.

No what we have got till now is only tip of iceberg, mejority thing is still locked behind those NSG doors. Btw any update on wassenger and Australia group entry?

That's not how prestige works.

For example Ivy League Universities are considered among some of the most prestigious universities on earth not bcuz those Universities think themselves prestigious but bcuz they have earned respect in the world by producing some of the best scholars, carrying out world class research, etc.

In short prestige doesn't come from a nation thinking highly of itself instead it stems from the rest of the world holding that nation/country in high regard.

So plz elaborate again on how joining the NSG would somehow bring prestige.

It's collective effort to uplift from existing status.

 

[Zen0]

Like u many have already stated that point...read the previous discussion...refer to my reply in post #22

I dont need to read delusions , India isn't a exporter of nuclear arms , even conventional arms . India is looking to buy.

The only thing India could export is thorium , who no country is interested in yet.

 

[Jackdaws]

The fact is that the world would rather keep Pakistan out of NSG than take India into the NSG. Pakistan's proliferation record is abysmal - its tied to North Korea don't exactly endear it to anyone. China is its only "friend" and it is a fair-weather friend and will dump Pakistan like the proverbial hot potato.

 

[cloud4000]

That's not how prestige works.

For example Ivy League Universities are considered among some of the most prestigious universities on earth not bcuz those Universities think themselves prestigious but bcuz they have earned respect in the world by producing some of the best scholars, carrying out world class research, etc.

In short prestige doesn't come from a nation thinking highly of itself instead it stems from the rest of the world holding that nation/country in high regard.

So plz elaborate again on how joining the NSG would somehow bring prestige.

You are not incorrect. It's also a matter of perspective too. You are looking at it from a different perspective, me another. I was thinking how it will be perceived domestically in India. Entrance into NSG will give India that it's an accepted nuclear power even though it's a non-NPT state. You could also make the same argument for Pakistan too.

 

[Cookie Monster]

You are not incorrect. It's also a matter of perspective too. You are looking at it from a different perspective, me another. I was thinking how it will be perceived domestically in India. Entrance into NSG will give India that it's an accepted nuclear power even though it's a non-NPT state. You could also make the same argument for Pakistan too.

If domestically it is perceived as a prestigious thing then those ppl perceiving it as such are ill informed. There isn't really anything prestigious about NSG. It's just a bunch of countries coming together to agree on something in the hopes of making this world a better place.

This is similar to countries signing the Geneva convention. Nothing prestigious but rather an agreed upon solution to a possible problem.

In my personal opinion India should not be allowed in to the NSG without signing the NPT and I'm not saying this out of hatred. My stance is the same for Pakistan or any other country. It would be a dangerous trend to start allowing countries in without signing and upholding the NPT. India shouldn't even have been granted that exemption. NSG was set up to put control over exports of fissile material to keep it from falling into the wrong hands...and by granting India that exception for the sake of money it turned into a biased group working for self interest.

 

[Gregor Clegane]

India would easily get into NSG by July 2017.

 

[wiseone2]

That's not how prestige works.

For example Ivy League Universities are considered among some of the most prestigious universities on earth not bcuz those Universities think themselves prestigious but bcuz they have earned respect in the world by producing some of the best scholars, carrying out world class research, etc.

In short prestige doesn't come from a nation thinking highly of itself instead it stems from the rest of the world holding that nation/country in high regard.

So plz elaborate again on how joining the NSG would somehow bring prestige.

I have no idea. GOI has decided they want to be a NSG member

If you think global warming is a problem you need to present India with alternatives for fossil fuels

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We will make a NEW GROUP

 

[Cookie Monster]

I have no idea. GOI has decided they want to be a NSG member

If you think global warming is a problem you need to present India with alternatives for fossil fuels

No idea what u r talking about mate. U completely deviated from our discussion.

India is seeking entry into NSG as a "Nuclear Weapons State". The countries above in NSG are not NWS.

The difference is like that between the P5 and the rest in UN. Every country is in UN, but only 5 have the power.

Wrong analogy. India being a nuclear weapons state makes no difference in NSG. India would have the same power as those non nuclear weapons countries I mentioned. NSG works by consensus. Whereas the 5 countries in UN having veto power compared to all the rest is different. The rule there is that anyone of those five countries can veto any decision.

In any case my comment was about the prestige issue. Read again and reply in that context.

 

[EpiiC]

We will make a NEW GROUP

New group with Iran/Iraq/Syria other unfriendly states with US and diplomatic blackmail may convince the world powers to finally let Pak join, surely its against NSG interests for Pak to join a new group with US hostile states?

 

[Mr.Nair]

Why is GoI spending so much diplomatic capital on this NSG thingy when India has already established nuclear trade deals with major Nuclear powers and suppliers?

GoI should just let it be. You have pretty much everything you need already.

India is the worlds biggest deposits of Thorium and is considered as future,safer Nuclear fuel.So i think joining NSG can make india to export thorium, tough i don't know if india prefer to do that in that case any time in future

 

[Deadpool]

No idea what u r talking about mate. U completely deviated from our discussion.


Wrong analogy. India being a nuclear weapons state makes no difference in NSG. India would have the same power as those non nuclear weapons countries I mentioned. NSG works by consensus. Whereas the 5 countries in UN having veto power compared to all the rest is different. The rule there is that anyone of those five countries can veto any decision.

In any case my comment was about the prestige issue. Read again and reply in that context.

Oh my God.
If you don't know something read up on it. The analogy was not whether NWS in NSG have a veto or not. The analogy was meant to say that some are more equal than others in NSG.

This classification is based on NWS and non-NWS in NSG. Any country can join NSG only in two classes - NWS or non-NWS.

The NWS States have additional rights than non-NWS states. The non-NWS states gave up on certain rights to be part of NSG.

And that is where the crux of the problem lies. The world is comfortable in having India sign NPT and join NSG as a non-NWS. India however will only join NSG as a NWS.
The exemption that NSG granted to India puts India somewhere in between the two. India is recognized as a NWS but not granted membership of NSG.

As confusing as the alphabetic soup sounds, go through it twice. I am sure you will get it.