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Forbes: Greece Will Need To Upgrade Its Navy To Keep Up With Turkey’s

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Jan 29, 2021,07:00am EST|

After finalizing its deal to buy Dassault Rafale multirole jet fighters from France, Greece may also seek more modern frigates. Athens will almost certainly require newer and more modern warships to counter its rival Turkey’s rapidly growing naval strength.

Greece and France signed the $2.8 billion Rafale deal this January. Greece is purchasing 18 of those 4.5-generation multirole jet fighters – six of which are brand new and 12 of which formerly served in the French Air Force – and expects to begin taking delivery of them this July.


GREECE-FRANCE-DEFENCE-WEAPONS-TURKEY-DIPLOMACY

(L-R) Hellenic National Defence Chief of Staff General Konstantinos Floros, Greek Defence Minister ... [+]

AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES

Athens also wants to buy between 18 and 24 stealthy fifth-generation F-35 Lightning II jet fighters from the United States. It is open to purchasing second-hand versions of these aircraft too, especially if that would speed up their delivery.

Lockheed Martin LMT +0.5% has begun upgrading most of Greece’s F-16 fleet to the F-16V (Block 70/72) standard in a project that will make them the most advanced in Europe. The first of a total of 84 Hellenic Air Force (HAF) F-16s being upgraded was finished on January 17. This upgrade program is scheduled for completion by the end of June 2027. The HAF’s French-built Mirage 2000-5 Mk2s are also being upgraded to extend their lifespan.

Consequently, the HAF is steadily becoming a more modern and powerful air force. The future of its Turkish rival, on the other hand, looks bleaker than ever.

Ankara was suspended from the F-35 Joint Strike Program and had its order for at least 100 of these advanced stealth fighters canceled after it purchased and took delivery of advanced Russian S-400 air defense missile systems. Furthermore, Turkey’s large fleet of F-16C/Ds, Block 30/40/50 variants, which make up the backbone of its air force, may severely suffer from a lack of extensive upgrades in the long-term.



“Most of these aircraft will have to be phased out over the next 10 to 15 years, depending on their upgrades,” noted a recent analysis on the dire state the Turkish Air Force finds itself. Recent U.S. sanctions slapped on it for its S-400 procurement, the analysis added, “means no more American helping hand for Turkey’s existing fleet of F-16s.”

Ankara can undoubtedly keep its fleet airworthy for the foreseeable future without American assistance. However, if its F-16s are not substantially modernized – or gradually replaced by more advanced fifth-generation or, at the very least, 4.5-generation fighters – it will ultimately end up with a fleet of aged and inferior fighter jets compared to those of its Greek rival.

While the HAF has a good chance of gaining a highly advantageous technological edge over its Turkish rival by the end of this decade, the Hellenic Navy (HN) could, conversely, find itself more heavily outgunned and outnumbered by the Turkish Navy than ever.

The HN presently consists of four Hydra-class frigates designed in Germany, products of the MEKO 200 frigate design, and delivered in the 1990s. It also has nine Elli-class frigates built in the Netherlands, all aside from two of which formerly served in the Royal Netherlands Navy, and delivered in the 1990s and early 2000s. Aside from this, most of the HN’s surface vessels consist of smaller gunboats. Its submersible fleet consists of 11 German-built diesel-electric attack submarines.

While this is a formidable fleet for such a small country, it’s certainly no match for Turkey’s, which is growing significantly larger and more advanced each year.
On January 23, Turkey launched its first locally-built multipurpose frigate, the TCG Istanbul, the first of four upcoming frigates of that class. The Istanbul will be delivered to the Turkish Navy in 2023.

Istanbul (F-515) Frigate's launch ceremony

ISTANBUL, TURKEY - JANUARY 23: Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan speaks during launch ceremony ... [+]
ANADOLU AGENCY VIA GETTY IMAGES


“The I-class frigates will feature weapons systems including a locally made 16-cell MDAS vertical launching system (a total of 64 surface-to-air missiles yet to be specified); four-by-four SSM launch canisters for the Atmaca weapon; an Aselsan-made 76mm Gokdeniz close-in weapon system; two Aselsan-made 25mm machine guns; and a HIZIR torpedo countermeasures system,” reported Defense News.

The Istanbul is the latest in Turkey’s MILGEM project that builds warships domestically. Preceding the Istanbul were four Ada-class corvettes which specialize in anti-submarine warfare.

As with its rival Greece, Turkey also possesses several German-built diesel-electric attack submarines, many of them built locally under license. Turkey is presently building six new Type-214 air-independent propulsion submarines and aims to add one each year to its Navy between 2022 and 2027.
The Turkish Navy’s upcoming flagship, the TCG Anadolu, is an amphibious assault ship based on the design of the Spanish Juan Carlos I with Turkish-developed components.

Additionally, Turkey has eight ex-U.S. Navy Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates, known in the Turkish Navy as the Gabya-class guided-missile frigates, and four Barbaros-class frigates, another MEKO 200 design.

Turkey hasn’t hesitated from showcasing its formidable naval power. In 2019, over 100 Turkish Navy ships participated in simultaneous exercises in the three seas around Turkey, the largest and most extensive exercise in that fleet’s modern history.

Turkey and Greece have longstanding maritime disputes in the East Mediterranean and the Aegean Sea that became quite tense last year. While those latest tensions appear to have simmered with the beginning of exploratory talks between the two countries, Athens is acutely aware of Turkey’s growing naval strength and increased willingness to more forcibly and aggressively stake its claims over disputed waters and natural resources.
Greece wants to buy at least four new frigates to begin building up its naval strength.

In a joint press conference in Athens this January, following the finalization of the Rafale deal, French Defense Minister Florence Parly announced that “France will soon offer to Greece proposals to renew its fleet of frigates.”

Last October, the U.S. insisted that Greece buy four U.S. frigates, three of which it said could be co-produced at the Onex Shipyards on the Greek island of Syros.
In November, the Greek press reported that the HN was interested in acquiring U.S.-built Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) vessels. According to the report, the proposal was for “a package solution that includes the supply of four MMSC frigates, the upgrade of four MEKO-type frigates, intermediate solution ships and the participation of Greek shipyards in the development of the new American FFG(X) type frigate.”

Whatever Athens ultimately opts to do, it has become abundantly clear that its navy requires substantial procurements and upgrades to keep up the pace with its larger and increasingly more sophisticated rival to prevent the balance of naval power from shifting decisively in Ankara’s favor.

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Paul Iddon
I am a journalist/columnist who writes about Middle East military and political affairs.

 
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The EU has been fueling Greece military even its basically broke!
In fact, the main purpose of such articles is not based on the actual interests of Greece, but on the presupposition that Greece should buy more and more American or French etc.(depending on which country's media) weapon systems.
 
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Of course we need more ships. Our Navy has fallen behind and as a country with a naval tradition and so many islands,we need a strong navy. Apart from the 3 FDI HN,the government and HN have been negotiating about the corvettes. The initial proposal was for 3 or 4 Gowind corvettes,but now the Dutch are in the game with the Sigma 10514.

The thing is that these will not be enough either. We need more ships. And some say we need more submarines too.

In fact, the main purpose of such articles is not based on the actual interests of Greece, but on the presupposition that Greece should buy more and more American or French etc.(depending on which country's media) weapon systems.
Of course they want to sell their stuff,but we also need to modernize our Navy.
 
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Remember WW1 Turkey pretty much fought everyone alone by itself.. Which was an unprecedented moment in history and the reason this happened is because Turkey was the world hegemony and it's glory was still lingering around Europe despite slowly fading hence people took them very serious more then they should have but the Turks proved gallantry on a next level..
First of all,Turkey was an empire back then. And second,they had German help.
They were fighting a coalition of the following:

Britian
France
Russia
Italy
Sham (Syria-Jordan-Iraq)
Saudi Arabia
Kurds
Australia
Greece
Armenia
Bulgaria
Serbia
Macedonia
Egyptians
American volunteers
Georgia
New Zealand
Belgium

The Europeans were fighting against the Germans,the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Bulgaria as well. The Kurds were allied to the Turks back then. Bulgaria was an Ottoman ally. Serbia was fighting against the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Bulgaria. Greece was fighting Bulgaria and only had some naval battles against the Turks in WWI,if I'm not mistaken.

You kind of mixed the Balkan Wars and the Turkish War of Independence with WWI I think :P
 
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@Battlion25 While the Turks achieved political unity in the Balkans, they did not so only through their relations with the Bulgarians, but mainly Greeks, Serbs, Bosnians and Albanians. The Ottomans won some of their most glorious victories against the Crusader Europe with the active support of the Balkan nations. For example, in the 15th century, the Serbian king led the wings of the Ottoman army in many wars. When did the Ottoman state enter a period of collapse? after the Russians and Austrians began to erode this political unity...

For example, the map below shows the distribution of Ottoman grand viziers (prime ministers at that time):
wnammrualn881.jpg


Bosniaks in near Adriatic, Gagauzs in the north of Romania, and Crimean Tatars were the guarantor elements of political unity in the borders of the state. First, the Russians took the Crimea and put pressure on Romania, and also stepped up their political activities on religious and ethnic grounds. In the same period Greece left the union with the support of European states and a bloody century of conflict began between the Turks and the Greeks. And when Austria separated Bosnia from the state, collapse in the Balkans became inevitable. The Ottoman Empire was essentially a Balkan state, and it derived its power from the Balkans. When the political unity in the Balkans was lost, a period full of pain and lasting more than a century was entered, finally the Turks had to make their last defense in the Anatolian lands.

The Ottomans delayed this process with a strong navy until the 18th century. However, after a period of time, the power struggle within the Ottoman Empire became so strange that when the naval forces, which were important factor about the military coups inside, were left to decay with all their elements (Abdulhamit period), the Ottomans lost all their logistics facilities that could stop the full collapse.

WW1? It just made the inevitable become official.

Even Turkey's entry into the Great war is not a common political decision. Rather, it is the result of a joint plot between some pro-German officers and the German state. The psychological basis of this was formed by the British pushing the Ottomans towards the Germans in the last period in order to colonize the Middle East lands. 2 finished battlecruiser and one on the slipway were seized by brits; and the anger this created has consolidated German influencein army to an incredible extent.
 
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In the same period Greece left the union with the support of European states and a bloody century of conflict began between the Turks and the Greeks.
It wasn't a union for us. Nor most of the other Balkan Christian nations. We were not a federation. We were conquered.

People had tried to rebel many times in Greece and the Balkans,but most of the other rebellions failed. The Europeans didn't want to support us at first,but eventually helped us,after a significant part of the European public opinion pressured for help.


Even Turkey's entry into the Great war is not a common political decision. Rather, it is the result of a joint plot between some pro-German officers and the German state.
Yeah that really sucked.

@Battlion25 you should watch that Turkish documentary about the Balkan Wars.
 
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@Foinikas In the political history of the Ottoman Empire, Turkish revolts were much more than any other element. In fact, there have been events that brought the country to the brink of collapse several times. But these are completely irrelevant intellectual discussion areas(I don't want to spamming thread by going further off topic), we can discuss them under a suitable topic if you wish.
 
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There are rumors that the government has decided to buy Gowind 3100 corvettes.
 
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