For Paf: How To Invest The $270 Million Saved From The F16 Purchase

[Gufi]

There needs to be a win win solution over here---there needs to be an oversight committee extremely knowledgeable in these matter wearing civilian uniforms.

That much money could do nothing
The Chinese would not help us extend our JF 17, they have multiple platforms which could do what block 4 would. The whole premise of extending the plane is that we need something bigger, why not buy working solutions rather then spend R n D money which will take 2 years when there are ready made solutions available. The J 10 could do while we wait for the FC 31 for example, would be quicker, cheaper and honestly more feasible with more definite results. Spending 2+ years to build a larger jet which may or may not be feasible in the end then getting a line for building them, which would not be more then say 40 jets, while getting all the electronics, engines and weaponry imported, are we not better off with a J 10 with certain weapons integrated by the Chinese for us.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

JF-17 once it has achieved the Block 3 standard would have achived it's intended goal for Pakistan Airforce that was the main objective for the Fighter Jet

Depenable , available , technically sound aircraft that can be the workhorse for Pakistan Airforce

The moment is right to invest into the J-31 , platform on a official basis

Investment of 270 Million Dollars (Downpayment) in 2016 , and then second downpayment 2018
for 18 Unit and TOT like JF17 Thunder program

Ideally Year

2016: Downpayment for J-31 Program , 270 Million Dollar
2017 : Follow up 100 Million Dollar (Money from 2017 Budget)
2018 : Follow up 100 Million Dollar (Money from 2018 Budget)

2019-2020 : 36 J-31 in Pakistan Airforce - TOT at KAMRA
2020-2025 : Agreement for 100 planes to replace equal number planes


We can be the first official user for the platform in case China is inducting the J-20 platform locally


JF-17 would be a success story in itself like K-8 but the next real progression for Pakistan Airforce is the J-31 platform.

 

[MastanKhan]

That much money could do nothing
The Chinese would not help us extend our JF 17, they have multiple platforms which could do what block 4 would. The whole premise of extending the plane is that we need something bigger, why not buy working solutions rather then spend R n D money which will take 2 years when there are ready made solutions available. The J 10 could do while we wait for the FC 31 for example, would be quicker, cheaper and honestly more feasible with more definite results. Spending 2+ years to build a larger jet which may or may not be feasible in the end then getting a line for building them, which would not be more then say 40 jets, while getting all the electronics, engines and weaponry imported, are we not better off with a J 10 with certain weapons integrated by the Chinese for us.

Hi,

Whatever paf has to do---it needs to get out of this quagmire---be it the J10C's---or a modified BLK4 that I mentioned.

They can also look at the JH7B's for the strike role and just keep their focus on the JF17 line---and move the F16's away from the terr strikes---.

So---regardless of what it is---they need to do something---they just chose the worst timing.

 

[cloud4000]

Hi,

Whatever paf has to do---it needs to get out of this quagmire---be it the J10C's---or a modified BLK4 that I mentioned.

They can also look at the JH7B's for the strike role and just keep their focus on the JF17 line---and move the F16's away from the terr strikes---.

So---regardless of what it is---they need to do something---they just chose the worst timing.

If the JF-17 is to be a potent ground attack aircraft it will need the Damocles targeting pod. Will France sell it to PAF?

 

[Benign Persona]

Yak-130 is the best option.....

eat some popcorn

 

[araz]

Hello All
@MastanKhan a good thread Sir , And goo to read different thoughts about this.
My take on this is,
Just say we have 300m$$ divide them in half , First 150M$$ are for JF17 Block 4' R&D Upgrade its Airframe , Increase the size of the bird , Bring wheals out side (Gripen NG) , Have a newer Better Engine , Use More composite Material , I will add even Use RAM (radar avoidance or absorbent Material) , Buy New and better EW suit and better avionics and try to get Next or latest Gen Missiles for our ne Bird , etc ,
Second 150m$$ , There Utility should be making things in our bird as many of them as we can at home, Like BVRs , VWR, And Advance Pods , Material Factory (for airframe)
The upgrades are done then our JF17 will be advance mini stealth bird even better then F16 in many aspects.
Thank You

A PAF high up is on record having said that JFT originally flew with 4 under wing pylons but later the idea was dropped. Essentially with a better engine you could have 4 underwing hard points and a chin mounted POD which would be enough for the platform. Alternatively it would be even more cheaper to have dual racks for BVRS allowing JFT to carry multiple BVRs on a single hardpoint. The upgraded engine is on the way.
A

PAF pilots are trained to fly any aircraft that flies in the PLAAF. Reason being PAF has provided very productive strategy & doctrine improvements.



But more agile, longer range, and a lower RCS.

I would disagree wiith your first statement. PAF does get some leeway with testing PLAAF platforms but are generally kept well away from the frontline platforms.
A

 

[Iqbal's Eagle]

eat some popcorn

Yes 270 million dollars are enough to buy pop corns for Pakistani cenima houses....

 

[bilalshaw]

May be invest in modernization of JF-17 and J10 program.

If Trump is in power, forget any F-16s in future. Also I don't believe we can afford European fighters, not even a single squadron. We will ultimately look for Russian or Chinese fighters. Do it now.

Equip Thunders with AESA and fine avionics, better missiles etc. May be invest in scaling up our aeronautics production facility.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hello All
@MastanKhan a good thread Sir , And goo to read different thoughts about this.
My take on this is,
Just say we have 300m$$ divide them in half , First 150M$$ are for JF17 Block 4' R&D Upgrade its Airframe , Increase the size of the bird , Bring wheals out side (Gripen NG) , Have a newer Better Engine , Use More composite Material , I will add even Use RAM (radar avoidance or absorbent Material) , Buy New and better EW suit and better avionics and try to get Next or latest Gen Missiles for our ne Bird , etc ,
Second 150m$$ , There Utility should be making things in our bird as many of them as we can at home, Like BVRs , VWR, And Advance Pods , Material Factory (for airframe)
The upgrades are done then our JF17 will be advance mini stealth bird even better then F16 in many aspects.
Thank You

Hi,

Paf can ask Turkey for the Aselsan pod----if they think that the WMD7 needs a lots of tweeking.

In their operation against the terrs I do not think the WMD7 should have any issues.

The problem of the paf is that it is used to the best of the best---so it has issues with the 2nd and 3rd tier equipment.

Seems like just because they have used it---they claim that they are ENTILTED TO THE BEST OF THE BEST.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

100 million towards jf 17
50 million into Assam freedom movement
50 million times Khalistan freedom it movement
50 million toward kashmir freedom movement
25 million to dalit freedom movement

Have Chinese invest pump some more money and try to expand.
If someone comes and questions then a simple answer told you so. If this offer is put on the table to US, I wonder if we will get those f16s much easier than usual and fully paid for.


I guess money well spent if we are not able to decide.

 

[Dr Gupta]

In this case, the USA's losing leverage on Pak will be counter productive for India as the void will be vigorously filled by China. Given India's compulsion to maintain overwhelming conventional superiority over Pak, the Pak Army's successes against proxies, the weakening of Afgan government supported by India, and India's volunteering to check Chinese designs for future - China may make it increasingly costly for India to maintain Nash equilibrium (from Game Theory) in defense procurements by taking a leaf from the US policies against the USSR like so many other things. The irony of the fate is that Pak is again occupying the center stage...

http://rbth.com/international/2016/04/20/russia-india-and-china-seek-common-ground_586437


India China ties have moved on leaps and bounds in the last 2-3 years, also many think China is going to jump in and rescue Pakistan in a conflict but when Kargil happened the Chinese themselves issued a statement for Pakistan to respect the LOC and go back to the border.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ee-to-maintain-peace/articleshow/52066127.cms

China and India are on the same page when it comes to getting more rights in the IMF etc you will see in the next 2-3 years both nations will get much closer (as they desire a multi-polar world) not a US dominated one.

 

[Paksanity]

http://rbth.com/international/2016/04/20/russia-india-and-china-seek-common-ground_586437


India China ties have moved on leaps and bounds in the last 2-3 years, also many think China is going to jump in and rescue Pakistan in a conflict but when Kargil happened the Chinese themselves issued a statement for Pakistan to respect the LOC and go back to the border.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ee-to-maintain-peace/articleshow/52066127.cms

China and India are on the same page when it comes to getting more rights in the IMF etc you will see in the next 2-3 years both nations will get much closer (as they desire a multi-polar world) not a US dominated one.

Whenever that happens, feel free to come and threaten us. OK?

We will break your hearts again, by the way.

 

[Dr Gupta]

Whenever that happens, feel free to come and threaten us. OK?

We will break your hearts again, by the way.

When what happens?

 

[Paksanity]

http://rbth.com/international/2016/04/20/russia-india-and-china-seek-common-ground_586437


India China ties have moved on leaps and bounds in the last 2-3 years, also many think China is going to jump in and rescue Pakistan in a conflict but when Kargil happened the Chinese themselves issued a statement for Pakistan to respect the LOC and go back to the border.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ee-to-maintain-peace/articleshow/52066127.cms

China and India are on the same page when it comes to getting more rights in the IMF etc you will see in the next 2-3 years both nations will get much closer (as they desire a multi-polar world) not a US dominated one.

Whenever that happens, feel free to come and threaten us. OK?

We will break your hearts again, by the way.

When what happens?

China India leaps and bounds thingy. Last I checked you guys were leaping about imaginary Chinese troops in Kashmir. So save it, will you?

 

[MastanKhan]

That much money could do nothing
The Chinese would not help us extend our JF 17, they have multiple platforms which could do what block 4 would. The whole premise of extending the plane is that we need something bigger, why not buy working solutions rather then spend R n D money which will take 2 years when there are ready made solutions available. The J 10 could do while we wait for the FC 31 for example, would be quicker, cheaper and honestly more feasible with more definite results. Spending 2+ years to build a larger jet which may or may not be feasible in the end then getting a line for building them, which would not be more then say 40 jets, while getting all the electronics, engines and weaponry imported, are we not better off with a J 10 with certain weapons integrated by the Chinese for us.

Hi,

They have already done it for less than 100 mil----the modification for the JF17 B----.

I would say that they might have spent around 50 mil or less to do that job----. I meter larger wing----and other modifications.