For Paf: How To Invest The $270 Million Saved From The F16 Purchase

[Strigon]

Hi,

Let us even out that number to $300 million even. This is a good sum of money for the paf to invest into its future procurement program.

The first 50 million dollars need to put as down payment for a LEASE of 1 sqdrn of J10C aircraft----if you can get them with lesser down payment---well and good---.

The second 100 million dollars needs to be spent for a physical upgrade of the JF17 to the future BLK4 standards.

The BLK4 aircraft should have a physical upgrade like the Gripen NG----wheels moved outwards towards the wings---providing more space on the fuselage for fuel storage---the modular fuselage upgraded for a larger powerful engine---the wings given a slightly larger covered area---basically making this aircraft around 15 - 20 % larger with a load carrying capacity of around 7500 lbs---9 to 11 hard points.

With this design paf would kill two birds with one stone.

It would still build the BLK 2/3---because this aircraft has its own unique utility----the supposed BLK 4---the larger aircraft will fill in the hole of the missing F16's and take it to the next step upwards---.

My supposed BLK 4 project would be completed in about a year / year and a half time and in two years looking at production.

The rest of the 100-150 million dollars would be down payment for an electronic package available from either Vixen or Aselsan or the chinese for the purchase of a potent electronic warfare system for an X number of aircraft.

Once the first sqdrn of the BLK 4 is available and integrated---the paf may chose to return the leased J10C's if it wants to----.

Thery can then look forward to building about a 150-200 my BLK4 type JF17's and keep up with the BLK3 production as well if there are any buyers for that aircraft

We also need to keep in mind that the BLK 4 would also be coming with a 2 seater aircraft.

With a larger aircraft in service---the paf then can focus on the J31 type of aircraft.

The main reason I am taling about my BLK 4 design is that the if we got the F16's---we won't start to get them for another 2-3 years----and same with any other aircraft from an outside vendor.

We can have our own BLK 4 in that time period---and a sqdrn of Leased J10C's would give us the needed cover for the time being.

I am glad you backed off the more nuke option I did say in response to rather invest in PAC to produce/ upgrade to better platforms. But you detailed that point here very well.

 

[Mav3rick]

What exactly is US losing by denying Pakistan F-16s? Congress doesn't think its losing anything by saying no to the deal. Wonder why they think that...

The US stands to lose their mightiest weapon, their leverage over Pakistan. Dent in military supplies and sales will be a bad omen for Pakistan-US relations and when that happens, it will eventually mean that Pakistan will have the audacity to tell the US to F*** Off when their demands do not align with ours internationally.

 

[!eon]

300million is a big amount
But when you take same money in defence sector it's nothing no much how much you try to wiggle yes but option is
Get few used f16s can upgrade them uncle Sam + turkey
And invest in thunder programme
Buying totally new platform is a foolish idea many problem
India has to much big numerical superiority and hi Tech birds
Cheap way to counter f16 and thunder and when you have a good economy which can sustain and support new systems and you have enough edge to cover the gap than you can take your time with any kind of bird you see
Best example china

Thanks for your detailed input.

Pakistan and US relations are very complicated. They are allies but they are not allies, they trust each other but they don't trust. You can't understand this dilemma of F-16 trade, if you are not aware of US-Pak relations.

Now with developing recent love affair of Uncle Sam with India, Pakistan must has to be extremely cautious about US equipment. Pakistan has only one threat, and that's comes across her eastern border. Pak-US relations have very bad history during Indo-Pak wars, and now that US was even spying on Israeli drones and F-16s, no credibility left in their favor. That's why many people in Pakistan want to run away from F-16s.

300 million is not a big money in defense sector but in terms of Sino-Pak relations, it's meaningful amount. China being cornered by Uncle Sam and India, is ready to provide every possible help to Pakistan. China trusts Pakistan and Pakistani establishment trusts China. China definitely wants a stronger Pakistan in coming hard days. Ball is now in PAF court.

 

[Iqbal's Eagle]

Hi,

Let us even out that number to $300 million even. This is a good sum of money for the paf to invest into its future procurement program.

The first 50 million dollars need to put as down payment for a LEASE of 1 sqdrn of J10C aircraft----if you can get them with lesser down payment---well and good---.

The second 100 million dollars needs to be spent for a physical upgrade of the JF17 to the future BLK4 standards.

The BLK4 aircraft should have a physical upgrade like the Gripen NG----wheels moved outwards towards the wings---providing more space on the fuselage for fuel storage---the modular fuselage upgraded for a larger powerful engine---the wings given a slightly larger covered area---basically making this aircraft around 15 - 20 % larger with a load carrying capacity of around 7500 lbs---9 to 11 hard points.

With this design paf would kill two birds with one stone.

It would still build the BLK 2/3---because this aircraft has its own unique utility----the supposed BLK 4---the larger aircraft will fill in the hole of the missing F16's and take it to the next step upwards---.

My supposed BLK 4 project would be completed in about a year / year and a half time and in two years looking at production.

The rest of the 100-150 million dollars would be down payment for an electronic package available from either Vixen or Aselsan or the chinese for the purchase of a potent electronic warfare system for an X number of aircraft.

Once the first sqdrn of the BLK 4 is available and integrated---the paf may chose to return the leased J10C's if it wants to----.

Thery can then look forward to building about a 150-200 my BLK4 type JF17's and keep up with the BLK3 production as well if there are any buyers for that aircraft

We also need to keep in mind that the BLK 4 would also be coming with a 2 seater aircraft.

With a larger aircraft in service---the paf then can focus on the J31 type of aircraft.

The main reason I am taling about my BLK 4 design is that the if we got the F16's---we won't start to get them for another 2-3 years----and same with any other aircraft from an outside vendor.

We can have our own BLK 4 in that time period---and a sqdrn of Leased J10C's would give us the needed cover for the time being.

I think we need to focus on the acquisition of S-400 system from Russia or if definitely going for jets then Yak-130 is the best option.....

 

[Hassan Fz]

Why Pakistan don't buy JAS-39 Gripen they are really cost effective and making headlines in Europe. Fighters against this jet is Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon.

 

[Max]

Hi,

That was to start from scratch and build a totally new platform----. Now that you have an existing aircraft---there is no reason for the modifications to be in that amount.

You already know what it can do---a 100 million dollars top end should be sufficient to do that modification---.

sir my comment was for those who wants to join 5th gen program with this money yes for work on upgrades amount seems sufficient..

 

[Viper0011.]

I think it is the best option available out there.

But you are like 8-10 years out. Turkey building a Stealth is just like when the Chinese started to build J-10A like around 1990. It took them over 14-18 years to come up with a real version that works. Turkey knows F-16's very well, if this was an advanced version of the F-16, I'd suggest otherwise. But toying with creating Stealth (and a totally new "stealth tech" related industry behind it, and learning a lot of tough, expensive and new lessons for the first time), is very risky from a Pakistani standpoint.

Turkey can afford to experiment, waste money, learn lessons and all, because at the end, they are a NATO country. Pakistan OTOH is by itself. The US is shifting priorities, India is growing and becoming a regional power VERY rapidly. So the situation Pakistan is in, it doesn't allow for her to do "long term" investments and wait for 10 years before you could see a squadron in the PAF. And then, there would be weapons, training, tactics, maintenance and ALL those other issues that come up as you acquire a new platform (and the time here, looking at 10 years).....so by the time the PAF has built tactics, weapons, etc, etc, it would be like 12 years before this can be fully inducted.

Joining the project isn't a bad idea. But, if you want to join this very long term investment, you have to provide cover to the PAF till then. So back to JFT block III and IV (IV being a possible smaller version of either J-31, or J-10C with TOT). This option would take the PAF totally off from any need to acquire foreign jets (as the mainstay). You can always buy more advanced jets as you please and if the money allows for it (in a complimentary situation obviously). But the JFT block IV as I suggested, would really take care of your top tier from a defensive standpoint.

So outside of the JFT block IV situation, to go away from external influence, the next on the list are SAAMS and BVR weapons. All three of these things IMO should have the highest priority as your main defense goes with the PAF.

 

[MastanKhan]

PAF pilots are trained to fly any aircraft that flies in the PLAAF. Reason being PAF has provided very productive strategy & doctrine improvements.



But more agile, longer range, and a lower RCS.

Hi,

People tend to forget how much favors we have done to the chinese----. There is a reason why they support us in the manner they do.

And you are correct and I did not want to bring that in---the pilot training and sharing air combat tactics is something that a number cannot be put into it and just can only be paid back in a friendship gesture.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

There are several things between China and Pakistan which are never disclosed or only disclose when necessary.

No wonder India is working overtime to isolate Pak as much as possible. Will she be successful???

 

[MastanKhan]

No wonder India is working overtime to isolate Pak as much as possible. Will she be successful???

Sir,

It is not the problem with India working against Pakistan----the problem is that it is the pakistanis working against pakistan that is an issue.

Look on this board---how many are totally blind to the threats given by the U S senator over future sanctions and how he wants to have control over pakistan thru the F16"s---and they still want the F16's.

 

[Viper0011.]

Look on this board---how many are totally blind to the threats given by the U S senator over future sanctions and how he wants to have control over pakistan thru the F16"s---and they still want the F16's.

I agree, and look how many Pakistanis on here are too busy bashing each other for political reasons.....when the above reality is where the entire nation should focus so the economy can grow and a strong defensive posture can shape up. After all every big military power has a bigger economy providing $$$$ for weapons and training and all. Sadly, when Pakistanis would start acting like a nation without "group ware" as I call it, an integrated Pakistan will be formed with a huge economy and a very strong offensive - defensive posture and a defense budget between $ 25-30 billion. That is TOTALLY achievable within the next 5 years, if the nation can focus on stability and growth. But, like its been the case, there are politics and group drama that apparently goes beyond caring for Pakistan. Too much individualism and ethnic-ism in Pakistan. One of the major issues to overcome as groups divide.

No wonder India is working overtime to isolate Pak as much as possible. Will she be successful???

Why does it matter if India will be successful or not? The REAL question Pakistanis should ask is, what do we "a nation" has to do, to become so economically strong that we can afford a 600 4th gen new Jets, and 18-20 advanced subs and a 750K strong Army with total automation in battle management (net centric warfare) between Air, Ground and Naval assets. That means a $ 25-20 billion defense budget per year. Which is highly possible starting in 5+ years. BUT, the nation has to act like a nation and avoid this political instability for the sake of groups and personalities. Stability would bring much more billions in investments as Pakistan is on the growth path and that's the need of the hour.

 

[Basel]

No wonder India is working overtime to isolate Pak as much as possible. Will she be successful???

only when Pakistanis are not safeguarding national Interest.

One more thing is that major western powers specially US didn't want China rising as Superpower and they are banking on several pawn states in Asia to do their job and India os their biggest bet, that is why Pakistan and China relationship become more important specially for China. There is a reason many Chinese say Pakistan is there Israel. Although Pakistan is much more important than that to them.

 

[aakash_2410]

Option 1:
Deposit and Intent for joint J-31 program , Stealth plane : Deposit 270 Million Dollars


Option 2:
Put money in bank for 1-2 years till it becomes 1 Billion

Wow! which bank trebles your money in 1 or 2 years. Please tell me! I have a few pennies that need investing!!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

There is something called put the money in Bank and add more contribution over 1-2 years from future budgets

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

only when Pakistanis are not safeguarding national Interest.

One more thing is that major western powers specially US didn't want China rising as Superpower and they are banking on several pawn states in Asia to do their job and India os their biggest bet, that is why Pakistan and China relationship become more important specially for China. There is a reason many Chinese say Pakistan is there Israel. Although Pakistan is much more important than that to them.

In this case, the USA's losing leverage on Pak will be counter productive for India as the void will be vigorously filled by China. Given India's compulsion to maintain overwhelming conventional superiority over Pak, the Pak Army's successes against proxies, the weakening of Afgan government supported by India, and India's volunteering to check Chinese designs for future - China may make it increasingly costly for India to maintain Nash equilibrium (from Game Theory) in defense procurements by taking a leaf from the US policies against the USSR like so many other things. The irony of the fate is that Pak is again occupying the center stage...