For Indian war planners, is the PAF their worst fear?

[Hasnain2009]

Just one question. Are the warheads used in Shaheen-II maneuverable? We are talking about BM not CM. Babur is a CM and not a BM. And what do u mean by change in trajectory?

Re-entry vehicle carried by the Shaheen-II missile have a mass of 1050kg. This re-entry vehicle mass of 1050kg carry Nuclear Warhead weight of the re-entry vehicles itself and a terminal guidance (as confirmed by Dr. Samar Mubarakmand[2])which is most probably radar correlation terminal seeker to achieve extremely accurate CEP in range of 30-50m similar to US PERSHING II[3].This re-entry vehicle unlike that of Shaheen-I does not have four moving delta control fins at the rear and small solid/liquid-propellant side thrust motors motors, which can be used to orientate the re-entry vehicle after boost burn out or before reentry to improve the accuracy by providing stabilization during the terminal phase and this can also be used to fly evasive maneuvers, making it immensely problematic to intercept by any existing anti-ballistic missile defence systems. As Shaheen-II may change its trajectory several times during re-entry and even during the terminal phase, effectively preventing pre-calculated intercept points of radar systems - which is a method nearly all ABM systems using these days. This re-entry vehicle also has GPS updates to further improve its CEP

Shaheen-II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MaXimMaRz]

CEP (circular error of probability ) of a BM or CBM or what ever , must with in 0.01 % of the range it covers. Both India and Pakistan still cant get that right.

So don't fight chill out , no one is using BMs or CBMs , its not cost effective till yet.

 

[anoopsaxena76]

......It can be fired from warships, submarines and aircraft. To avoid radar detection and penetrate through enemy air defense systems,[1][3] the missile uses its high degree of maneuverability to fly very low and "hug" the terrain. ....[

Babur missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No radar can detect it, so how would you intercept it!!

"to avoid radar detection" is not the same as "no radar can detect it".

Generally cruise missiles are designed to fly "hugging" the ground to avoid radar detection. By radar, it is meant, ground radars. But there are many other non-ground based radars which do detect them. Besides most of the cruise missiles fly at subsonic speeds so once detected they are very easy targets.

This is true of all cruise missiles that are subsonic. I am not suggesting Brahmos / Yukhont here at all btw, because I am sure US must have done some research to counter it. Perhaps a Super Hornet with AESA radar!

Regards,
Anoop

 

[anoopsaxena76]

CEP (circular error of probability ) of a BM or CBM or what ever , must with in 0.1 % of the range it covers. Both India and Pakistan still cant get that right.

<truly enjoyed this one and I am not disagreeing>

What is the CEP claimed for Babur?

Thanks and regards,
Anoop.

 

[Patriot]

Cruise Missile is somewhat stealthy.They travel at subsonic speeds to reduce radar signature.

 

[anoopsaxena76]

Cruise Missile is somewhat stealthy.They travel at subsonic speeds to reduce radar signature.

1.) Do you mean they are stealthy in design? or because they fly so low?
2.) I do not know hence I ask, when you say they travel at sub sonic speed to reduce radar signature do you mean the heat signature?

I think, and please do correct me if I am wrong, that cruise missiles fly at subsonic speeds because it is technically challenging to make one that flies supersonic. Only Russia has successfully achieved this into service. I discount Brahmos because it is just a copy of the Russian missile. US had tried it with their version of ramjets but they were not accepted by the military.

But that is just my opinion and if I am missing something please do let me know.

Regards,
Anoop.

 

[MaXimMaRz]

<truly enjoyed this one and I am not disagreeing>

What is the CEP claimed for Babur?

Thanks and regards,
Anoop.

Its used to calculate how much of missiles would be needed to neutralize a threat

 

[anoopsaxena76]

No I meant what is the CEP value claimed for Babur by Pakistan military?

Thanks,
Anoop

 

[MaXimMaRz]

Cruise Missile is somewhat stealthy.They travel at subsonic speeds to reduce radar signature.

speed cant determine radar signature till the point you acquire Blind speed of that radar and blind speed of a radar can be achived if ur radial velocity is a multiple of its PRF (pulse repetition freqency) .

radars have high blind speeds like 1500 M/H and higher.

CMs are sub sonic cuz:

1. Its more easily maneuverable that way. other wise it will have to maneuver in high Gs

2. Being at super sonic speed at Low attitude means maintaing 660 Kts. that means alot of Propellant is required, and it has to have a bigger size. which is bad and not possiable

 

[Hasnain2009]

<truly enjoyed this one and I am not disagreeing>

What is the CEP claimed for Babur?

Thanks and regards,
Anoop.

"Pinpoint Accurate"

Ra'ad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ra'ad ALCM gives Pakistan Air Force the capability to attack fixed enemy installations (such as radar posts, command nodes and stationary surface to air missile launchers) at standoff range, keeping the launching aircraft away from enemy air defense systems. The accuracy of the missile is reported to be comparable to Pakistan's Babur cruise missile, which is labeled as having "pinpoint accuracy" by official PAF sources

 

[Hasnain2009]

CEP would be 2-5m!!

 

[MaXimMaRz]

my mistake CEP should be 0.01&#37; of the distance travelled , NOT 0.1%

 

[MaXimMaRz]

LOLLLL
What can Pakistan operate other than your Refurbished F-16s?



And btw, why does this thread exist.... we know you people won't stop your arguments. But I hear from you guys "Why does India compare with US??"...

Well my question: "Why does Pakistan compare to India" when the world KNOWS for a fact, just as USA is superior by far to India, India is superior by far to Pakistan.

You cannot deny it.. yes the IAF is larger but don't tell me your PAF pilots are much better than ours... because *cough* we do conduct joint exercises with Britain, France, and US -- Red Flag, the most recent one.

And even if ur pilots are the "best" it won't matter... IAF's well trained too and in that case our #s will help. War India Pakistan... not goin to happen. IF?

Pakistan will win
oh wait... don't get excited there ^^ I was just kidding.

I think u need to know that India in Changing from Gen. Sunderji Doctorine of having three Offensive and 4 defensive cores to " COLD START".
Now Why would a massive and established army do that. I wont get into the details of the "WHY". I will invite you to tell me yourself and then decide What Far Superior Means !

Try reading India's "COLD START FOR HOT WAR" and its reasons and the infrastructure required . Again far superiority doesn't demand such a massive change . Please Read and decide

 

[hj786]

Ignore him, he's just a stupid troll who wants to provoke arguments. Can some moderator PLEASE take action against him (kavuru)? I've reported him several times for his trolling and nothing happens. What is the point of a report button if no moderator pays attention to the reports?

 

[satishkumarcsc]

I think u need to know that India in Changing from Gen. Sunderji Doctorine of having three Offensive and 4 defensive cores to " COLD START".
Now Why would a massive and established army do that. I wont get into the details of the "WHY". I will invite you to tell me yourself and then decide What Far Superior Means !

Try reading India's "COLD START FOR HOT WAR" and its reasons and the infrastructure required . Again far superiority doesn't demand such a massive change . Please Read and decide

Dont feed the troll