Florida Pulse gay club attacked in Orlando - 50 dead and 53 injured

[Sliver]

The BBC world report today on the NPR radio (tuesday, June 14 2016) says the number of killed is 49. just updating the people in here.

 

[iPhone]

New reports are saying he used to frequent the same gay club. Yo, I knew he was gay. No wonder his marriage with a female companion didn't work out.

He had homosexual tendencies but was probably angry at himself for having those as he's suppose to be a tough afghan man.

And the night of the shooting that gay rage erupted and the results are in front of us.

 

[Viper0011.]

You are talking to someone who owns three firearms: Steyr M40 pistol, Noveske AR-15, and a DSA FAL 308.

And you may be talking to someone who may have more toys then you listed Gambit. I don't think you read my first post. Till day before yesterday, I felt, believed and acted exactly like you are today.

However, when I saw these suffering people and the pain and the loss of life right here in front of me (I went to the closest hospital for blood donations, etc in Orlando as I was visiting a friend for the weekend), it changed my entire thought process. I am a big believer in our second amendment.

But like I said, I don't think the forefathers were testing out an AR-15 or an AK-47 when they were writing the second amendment and nor did that stuff exist back then!! This problem has multiple faces, terrorism is obviously one but looking at the previous mass shootings (schools, churches, etc), having access to hi-caliber firearms is also another arm of this issue.

A hollow point on a .45 is MUCH less deadlier than an AR-15. I think this statement alone should tell you I am not looking at the pictures of these guns and writing these posts. An AR-15's 5. round does a LOT more damage than 9MM or .45 etc. I think .45 hollow point and shot guns are good for home defense or self defense and they can be available like they are right now. But the higher caliber should have a stricter process, a longer FBI check with mental health data combined, terrorist links checked, etc, before a deadly assault rifle is given to someone. We are just talking about avoiding more incidents like these, or LIMITING the damage. I would rather see 80 injured who'd recover because this bast*ard used a 9MM or a .45 pistol than 50 dead and 30 injured. That's just freaking crazy if you think about the loss of human life!! We are the most civil and sophisticated society. We know better and we can save our citizens better. That's all I am saying. And we can do this WHILE we have the second amendment in-tact. Restriction on caliber or refusal to give a gun to a crazy bi-polar doesn't mean the second amendment is being breached. It means we are avoiding highly crazy individuals to not have access to these deadly weapons!!

 

[livingdead]

The G3 is an automatic. Like I said earlier, the requirements to own a fully automatic weapon is so onerous that most American gun owners do not bother with it.


That is a lie. I never said such thing. What you did is dishonest and is fully expected. What I said was the operation of semi-auto between the pistol and the AR-15 is the same. That is not saying a pistol and a rifle are the same thing. But I fully expect such dishonest debating tactic with people like you. I had yrs of that on this forum.


Am asking if you agree with the UK doctors who now want to ban certain kitchen knives base on design. Do you agree ?


And you are wrong. Simple as that.

its upto americans to decide what level of violence is acceptable. Americans need to compromise on either gun ownership, or more intrusive govt or occasional mass killing. Comparing a developed country like US with el salvador is unfair. You need to compare it with countries with similar economic/social status.

 

[gambit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States

When you claim something, the burden of proof lies upon you to back it up.

The amount of gun laws, federal and states, would overwhelm this discussion.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/how-many-gun-laws-are-there-study-disputes-20000-number

You expect me to research them all, even if not 20,000 ?

Now the first two are interesting because apparently If he is US citizen he can get a weapon it does not matter if he is delusional, depressed, bipolar, schizophrenia or whatever name you want to give him. So much for the law.

So how many in YOUR neighborhood that you know for certain have mental health issues ?

No wonder why americans find it easy to get an assault weapon again a case in point the attack in Orlando.

What was the assault weapon in the Pulse nightclub shooting ? Care to specify ?

Say what ever you want but it remains a fact that Gangs or no gangs Individual are involved which have no relation or affiliation with any Gang. You made it look as if gun violence is something done by gangs alone which is not the case as evident from these repeated mass shootings.

Another dishonest one who put words in my mouth. Am not surprise at all. That kind of dishonest debating seems to be typical of your people, eh ?

Nowhere did I said that gun violence came from gangs ALONE. I challenge you to show everyone that post, liar. And yes, I just called you a liar. If you managed to show the readers where I said that, I will publicly apologize and withdraw from this discussion.

What I said was gun related violence was overwhelmingly GANG RELATED. Far different from GANGS ALONE. Are you able to see the conceptual difference ?

Am I or are you the one who is being delusional here. what is it going to take for you to call a spade a spade? Seriously your expertise are in radars it would better if you stick to that.

Then unless you have lived for yrs in the US and is deep into American culture, I suggest you keep to Pakistani issues, eh ? Seems to me you should stay out of debating as well since you proved to be willing to put words in my mouth.

And you may be talking to someone who may have more toys then you listed Gambit.

Then walk the talk and give up your guns.

 

[livingdead]

New reports are saying he used to frequent the same gay club. Yo, I knew he was gay. No wonder his marriage with a female companion didn't work out.

He had homosexual tendencies but was probably angry at himself for having those as he's suppose to be a tough afghan man.

And the night of the shooting that gay rage erupted and the results are in front of us.

gay rage? is that a thing?

 

[gambit]

its upto americans to decide what level of violence is acceptable. Americans need to compromise on either gun ownership, or more intrusive govt or occasional mass killing. Comparing a developed country like US with el salvador is unfair. You need to compare it with countries with similar economic/social status.

Ah...So now you are saying that it is people that kills people. Not guns. Thanks.

It is not 'unfair' to compare US, a developed country, to El Salvador. The vast majority of US gun owners are responsible and law abiding. If a place of business post that they do not want guns on premise, the law abiding gun owner will respect that. Criminals will not. So if a less developed country that have restrictive gun laws but higher violent crime rates, what does that tell you about US ?

 

[iPhone]

gay rage? is that a thing?

Lol sorry, in the homosexual community, it is

 

[Red-Bull]

gay rage? is that a thing?

maybe he was conflicted about his inner gay and religious self, in the end his religious side... overcompensated ?

 

[Viper0011.]

Then walk the talk and give up your guns.

LOL, I don't think the debate is for "let's take all the guns away". There is a common sense approach to it. Why would I sit on a branch when someone is cutting it in front of me (or can cut it)?? Same is the logic, extended background and mental health checks for combat / assault rifles. And the shot guns and Pistols / Revolvers should be available as is.

And if there is a need for me to go through an extended background check to keep my guns belonging to me, I am open to it. But in this recent case, I bet you, if an extended check was performed, this moron would've walked away with a pistol and they would've refused to sell the AR per FBI's info back to the shop, or would've kept it for a month until all clear was given. None of this would've resulted in violating the second amendment.

 

[Red-Bull]

they've deleted my post here but there is a good article by Majid Nawaz (ex extremist) on the daily beast, people should check it out.

 

[IceCold]

The amount of gun laws, federal and states, would overwhelm this discussion.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/how-many-gun-laws-are-there-study-disputes-20000-number

You expect me to research them all, even if not 20,000 ?


So how many in YOUR neighborhood that you know for certain have mental health issues ?


What was the assault weapon in the Pulse nightclub shooting ? Care to specify ?


Another dishonest one who put words in my mouth. Am not surprise at all. That kind of dishonest debating seems to be typical of your people, eh ?

Nowhere did I said that gun violence came from gangs ALONE. I challenge you to show everyone that post, liar. And yes, I just called you a liar. If you managed to show the readers where I said that, I will publicly apologize and withdraw from this discussion.

What I said was gun related violence was overwhelmingly GANG RELATED. Far different from GANGS ALONE. Are you able to see the conceptual difference ?


Then unless you have lived for yrs in the US and is deep into American culture, I suggest you keep to Pakistani issues, eh ? Seems to me you should stay out of debating as well since you proved to be willing to put words in my mouth.
.

Looks like i have touched a nerve here. Calm down old man, no need to get over hyped up. I am not putting words into your mouth nor do i have a habit of that. You brought gang members into the debate and affiliated violence with them. My original post was only related to bringing Islam and Muslim community as a whole and then you brought all sort of other arguments with personal insults because you could not answer it.
I would mind my own business and remain associated with Pakistan but than again My Father was US green card holder and i still have family members there, so yeah i do care about what happens in the US and how muslim community in general gets affected by that.

 

[livingdead]

Ah...So now you are saying that it is people that kills people. Not guns. Thanks.

It is not 'unfair' to compare US, a developed country, to El Salvador. The vast majority of US gun owners are responsible and law abiding. If a place of business post that they do not want guns on premise, the law abiding gun owner will respect that. Criminals will not. So if a less developed country that have restrictive gun laws but higher violent crime rates, what does that tell you about US ?

a less developed country that is torn apart by drug war? I mean will you compare US with iraq or afganistan just because these two countries might have strict gun laws? Its an abuse of statistics if anything.
Guns are not conscious entity and need some actor to operate, whoever operates it(human, chimp, dolphin?) are responsible for it, that goes without saying. I was simply suggesting its more or less expected to have mass shooting every now and then, and as long as citizen of USA are okey with it(and think it as acceptable risk for a greater goal), I see no problem. This is what democracy is all about.
I find it weird when people express shock and outrage at mass shooting, you give guns to ordinary Indians, you will probably see more mass shooting than americans...

 

[gambit]

Looks like i have touched a nerve here. Calm down old man, no need to get over hyped up. I am not putting words into your mouth nor do i have a habit of that. You brought gang members into the debate and affiliated violence with them. My original post was only related to bringing Islam and Muslim community as a whole and then you brought all sort of other arguments with personal insults because you could not answer it.

You said...

You made it look as if gun violence is something done by gangs alone...

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/florida-...d-and-53-injured.434579/page-32#ixzz4BZ7pC7VH

Now prove it. Show the readers where I use those words, liar.

What you did was dishonest and despicable, but fully expected based on my yrs of being in this forum. When it comes to the American members here, I do not expect intellectual honesty from any camp, and you just further confirmed the nature of this forum.

 

[Anubis]

The guy was gay.....Bill Maher once said that many of these home grown terrorists do it out of guilt...remember how the 911 fuckers ordered prostitutes in their hotel room...they do the things that they find in the free world...and then they feel guilty because the big guy in the sky is watching and then they go on holy war. Fuckwits!