Five dams being built in occupied Kashmir

[Xeric]

Isnt india supposed to inform Pakistan before undertaking any major development on these waters as per the Treaty?

 

[Jackdaws]

Isnt india supposed to inform Pakistan before undertaking any major development on these waters as per the Treaty?

Yes it is - how do you think Pakistan knows India is building 5 dams? And read the Treaty - India is allowed to use all the rivers for power generation as it deems fit as far as certain specifications are met - there isn't an upper limit to the number of dams that can be built.

 

[Xeric]

Yes it is - how do you think Pakistan knows India is building 5 dams? And read the Treaty - India is allowed to use all the rivers for power generation as it deems fit as far as certain specifications are met - there isn't an upper limit to the number of dams that can be built.

We know that because Hazrat Jibrail (RA) came down and told us.

Dont fool around.

No formal information was furnished, not in all the cases.

As for your "India is allowed to use all the rivers for power generation as it deems fit", i think you probably missed the following while 'reading' the treaty:

"9. On those Tributaries of The Jhelum on which there
is any Agricultural Use or hydro-electric use by Pakistan ,
any new Agricultural Use by India shall be so made as not
to affect adversely the then existing Agricultural Use o r
hydro-electric use by Pakistan on those Tributaries ."

And i think we do use/plan on using Jhelum for electricity production

You also probably have misunderstood the following clause in Annex C of IWT:

"3. India may withdraw from the Chenab Main such
waters as India may need for Agricultural Use on the following
canals limited to the maximum withdrawals noted
against each:

Name of Canal​

Maximum Withdrawals forAgricultural Use​

​

(a) Ranbir Canal​

1,000 cusecs from 15th April to 14t h
October, and
350 cusecs from 15th October to
14th April.​

(b) Pratap Canal​

400 cusecs from 15th April to 14t h
October, an d
100 cusecs from 15th October to
14th April."​

So what do you say about the following:

 

[Hyde]

Let India build dams for Pakistan..... one day Kashmir will be free....... and we will occupy these dams :p

 

[Jackdaws]

Xeric,

It is using it for power generation not for agriculture use.

 

[equiliz3r]

Let India build dams for Pakistan..... one day Kashmir will be free....... and we will occupy these dams :p

which day mate??????

 

[Hyde]

which day mate??????

21 December 2012.............

 

[DesiGuy]

21 December 2012.............

good one.

 

[mrwarrior006]

21 December 2012.............

in tat case see u in africa

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

Thats lame, rather lamest argument you could put as a reason of breaching International Water Treaty. What about India failing to provide any credible evidence against Hafiz Saeed? Are you even aware Interpol can access and arrest Hafiz Saeed if India had given them evidence against him? Why would India provide that when they have "great" things to do as an excuse for Pakistan not doing anything against one person. Nice playing.

They say the best method to deal with a bully is to get a BIGGER bully to bully the bully! *ahem* who could that be???

Or better yet, China can dig canals that bypass India all together and goes straight to Pakistan, and another one straight to Bangladesh. We all know PRC is very capable to do so....

 

[mrwarrior006]

They say the best method to deal with a bully is to get a BIGGER bully to bully the bully! *ahem* who could that be???

Or better yet, China can dig canals that bypass India all together and goes straight to Pakistan, and another one straight to Bangladesh. We all know PRC is very capable to do so....

india will gets its own bully to bully another bully

 

[dvk1982]

They say the best method to deal with a bully is to get a BIGGER bully to bully the bully! *ahem* who could that be???

Or better yet, China can dig canals that bypass India all together and goes straight to Pakistan, and another one straight to Bangladesh. We all know PRC is very capable to do so....

here comes a guy who just wants to reassure pakistanis every possible way to get some praises...
economically going forward even if u like it or it.. china and india are going to be more important partners... expected 80$ billion trade by 2015, is only going to make each other more respectful...

dont mistake it to be for love but for pure economics and necessity..

Gud that we dont have dick heads in our govts who profess what u say...

People here get very sentimental and forget the realities by preching or claiming all out of the world possibilities...

And there is a gud saying which looses its punch if i translate.. but anyways this is how it goes... one who kicks sbdy's legs will get his head kicked by some other person.....

u bother us, u will face tune somewhere else.... u may be bigger geographically but not in human power...

 

[equiliz3r]

21 December 2012.............

are you sure?????

I am waiting

 

[jarnee]

Isnt india supposed to inform Pakistan before undertaking any major development on these waters as per the Treaty?

Isnt Pakistan supposed to inform India before sending infiltrators across the border, Isnt Pakistan supposed to inform India that they are harbouring terrorist and ensuring security to hafiz sayeed and team and making them do a rally on Pakistan side...

There are many things supposed to be.

 

[Xeric]

Xeric,

It is using it for power generation not for agriculture use.

^^ That's it? A one liner?

So you want to suggest that india is not using Western Rivers for agricultural use?

i am interested in discussing the use of western Rivers both as regards to Power generation and Agricultural purpose. So you just cant segregate the two by posting a one liner.

Anywaz, i think you seriously need to go through the Treaty one more time, especially the definitions part. Here, let me help you:

The term "Agricultural Use" means the use of water
for irrigation, except for irrigation of household gardens
and public recreational gardens.

(10) The term "Domestic Use" means the use of water for:

(a) drinking, washing, bathing, recreation, sanitation (including the conveyance and dilution of sewage and of industrial and other Avastes), stock and poul-
try, and other like purposes ;

(b) household and municipal purposes (including use for household gardens and public recreational gardens) ;

and
(c) industrial purposes (including mining, milling and other like purposes) ;

but the term does not include Agricultural Use or use for the generation of hydro-electric power.


(11) The term "Non-Consumptive Use" means any control or use of water for navigation, floating of timber or other property, flood protection or flood control, fishing or fish culture, wild life or other like beneficial purposes, provided that, exclusive of seepage and evaporation of water incidental to the control or use, the water (undiminished in volume within the practical range of measurement) remains
in, or is returned to, the same river or its Tributaries;

but the term does not include Agricultural Use or use for the generation of hydro-electric power.


Ok. Assuming that you now understand the actual meanings of these words my next concern is (let's talk of power generation for a while as you seem to be so fond of), that why wouldnt india build Run-of-River Plants on these rivers, (as provided in Part-3 of Annex 'D' of the IWT) and instead would try to hoodwink and construct either Conventional hydroelectric projects or out of specification projects?

We all know that there is be no restriction on the operation of the
following hydro-electric plants which were in operation on the Effective Date i.e. before the Treaty took effect:

Name of Plant Capacity​

(exclusive of standby units )(kilowatts)​

(i) Pahalgam​

186​

(ii) Bandipura​

30​

(iii) Dachhigam​

40​

(iv) Ranbir Canal​

1,200​

(v) Udhampur

640​

(vi) Poonch

160​

And we also know that there is no restriction on the completion of following projects as they were under construction back then:


Name of Plant

Designed Capacity (exclusive of standby units)
(kilowatts)​

(i) Mahora

12,000​

(ii) Ganderbal

15,000​

(iii) Kupwara

150​

(iv) Bhadarwah

600​

(v) Kishtwar

350​

(vi) Rajouri

650​

(vii) Chinani

14,000​

(viii) Nichalani Banihal

600​

But then this is not the issue.

We know that Baglihar Dam was a Run of the River Dam, but then why the hancky pancky and deception? Why india tried being a wise-guy when it made Baglihar thing out of the specifications (which were not permitted by IWT) and then Raymond Lafitte, the Swiss civil engineer who was appointed by World Bank to see into the issue had to direct india to make changes in Bagliar's design, like:

1-To reduce the Poundage capacity (read the definition at Annex D of the Treaty) by 13.5%,

2- To reduce he height of dam structure by 1.5 meter

3- And to raise the power intake tunnels by 3 meters, thereby limiting some flow control capabilities of the earlier design.



Also what the heck went wrong with Kishanganga Hydroelectric Project? Why did india decide to construct this Kishanganga as a Storage Power project instead of Run-of-River project? And when concerns were raised from this side then that minister of yours namely Kapil Sibal had to propose modifications in this 330-mw project to make it a run-of-the-river project, instead of originally storage and power generation project. FTW!!

These two examples proves that by agreeing to these modification india has vindicated Pakistan’s position and thereby confirmed that the concerns and objections shown by Pakistan are valid!!

Why the mischief?

Why being a smart a$$?

We dont object to india's right on the basis of IWT, but then this hypocrisy is what we are worried of.

You extend a hand of friendship on one side and back stab us with the other?!!