Five dams being built in occupied Kashmir

[Jackdaws]

Lots of lines I see - but still how has India contravened the IWT? It made designs and then made modifications as mandated by the commission? So when exactly has India broken the treaty?

 

[Xeric]

Is the inglish really so difficult to understand?

 

[TechLahore]

Lots of lines I see - but still how has India contravened the IWT? It made designs and then made modifications as mandated by the commission? So when exactly has India broken the treaty?

By holding back more than the allowed .01 MAF of water in reservoirs. We've had this discussion before in two other threads. The attempt to rapidly fill Baglihar reservoirs (last year) resulted in India violating the thresholds allowed under the IWT. Pakistan lost at least 0.2 MAF of water in contravention of the treaty.

Unless you think 0.2 MAF < .01 MAF, then the conclusion is simple. India has violated the IWT.

 

[Xeric]

^^ Tech, somethings are too subtle for people to understand

 

[karan.1970]

^^ That's it? A one liner?

So you want to suggest that india is not using Western Rivers for agricultural use?

These two examples proves that by agreeing to these modification india has vindicated Pakistan’s position and thereby confirmed that the concerns and objections shown by Pakistan are valid!!

Why the mischief?

Why being a smart a$$?

We dont object to india's right on the basis of IWT, but then this hypocrisy is what we are worried of.

You extend a hand of friendship on one side and back stab us with the other?!!

Xeric, I do not contest your stand of India stepping around the provisions of IWT. In my view this is a pressure tactic being employed to pressurize Pakistan to see its point of view on terrorism since this is the only thing directly in control of India that can build pressure on Pakistan to counter Terrorism (so called freedom fighters) originating from Pakistan occupied Kashmir. There is fairly little Pakistan can do on this except approaching world bank and the arbiteration can go on for decades to come.. Some thing very much like the terrorism targeting india. And I think Pakistan knows this...

I also believe that the impact that you talk about in the water availability in Pakistan is not purely due to this as if India is angling to use this as a bargaining chip, it wont damage the situation beyond repair.

However having said that my question to you is that what can be possible results of this counter??

 

[Xeric]

Xeric, I do not contest your stand of India stepping around the provisions of IWT. In my view this is a pressure tactic being employed to pressurize Pakistan to see its point of view on terrorism since this is the only thing directly in control of India that can build pressure on Pakistan to counter Terrorism (so called freedom fighters) originating from Pakistan occupied Kashmir. There is fairly little Pakistan can do on this except approaching world bank and the arbiteration can go on for decades to come.. Some thing very much like the terrorism targeting india. And I think Pakistan knows this...

I also believe that the impact that you talk about in the water availability in Pakistan is not purely due to this as if India is angling to use this as a bargaining chip, it wont damage the situation beyond repair.

However having said that my question to you is that what can be possible results of this counter??

So you declare india as a habitual treaty/rule breaker. First it was the UN and now the WB.

Why india has to commit 'crimes' to use them as what you call 'pressure tactics'?

Is that how things work in india? The largest democracy?

Instead of taking a legal course, getting the things done by softer and civilized actions and resolving issues through mutual exchanges you prefer the Hitler school of thought?!

God Bless You!

 

[Hutchroy]

Punjab walks out of Irsa meeting

ISLAMABAD: A dispute among provinces over water share intensified on Thursday when a meeting of the advisory committee of the Indus River System Authority (Irsa) ended in deadlock and Punjab walked out in protest against opposition from Sindh, Balochistan and federal members to a proposal to allow it to draw more water during the remaining period of the current crop season.

This was perhaps the worst crisis of its kind faced by Irsa in its 18-year history, despite some improvement in water situation and an estimated decline in shortage from 34 per cent to 30 per cent after the recent rainy spell.

The meeting presided over by Irsa Chairman Aman Gul Khattak was presented with the revised water probability of 7.42 million acre feet (MAF), which Sindh claimed was a shift from all past traditions when water probabilities were worked out at the start and not in the middle of cropping seasons. The meeting was attended by all Irsa members, provincial irrigation and agriculture secretaries and representatives of the agencies concerned.

“The meeting was hit by the differences and now the authority will take a decision” about water probabilities and provincial shares, Irsa spokesman Khalid Rana told reporters.

The provinces were not only divided over the probable water availability calculated by Irsa for the next six weeks, but also took extreme positions on how to share whatever quantities were expected to be available from Feb 11 to March 31.

While the members from Sindh and Balochistan and the federal member (belonging to Sindh) opposed allowing Punjab to open the Chashma-Jhelum link canal to draw more water from the Indus zone, Punjab insisted on drawing more water from that as well as the Taunsa-Punjnad canal.

According to sources, Irsa’s revised estimates suggested 1.48MAF of additional water share for Punjab from the Indus zone, but the three members refused to accept the estimates. They claimed that Punjab had already consumed more than its share from the Indus and should now compensate Sindh and Balochistan for 400,000 acre feet of water it had drawn, under a Dec 15 decision of Irsa.

According to the revised estimates for Feb 11 to March 31, Irsa calculated Punjab’s total remaining share for the current season at 4.09MAF — 2.6MAF from Jhelum-Chenab and 1.48MAF from the Indus zone. Sindh’s share was estimated at 2.6MAF, NWFP’s at 270,000 acre feet and Balochistan’s 450,000 acre feet.

Irsa member for Punjab Shafqat Masud told reporters that Sindh and Balochistan were not ready to agree to the remaining water share from Indus that Punjab was entitled to draw from Chashma-Jhelum and the authority could not reach a decision. “We decided to walk out in protest.”

He said the water share of Punjab stood at 4.9MAF, part of which it had the right to draw from the Chashma-Jhelum canal.

But Sindh and Balochistan had a different view. “By working out water probabilities in the middle of the season, Irsa has set a new example in violation of traditions and, therefore, we don’t accept it,” Sindh’s representative Shuja Ahmed Juneju said.

He said Irsa had tried to establish Punjab’s additional share from the Indus zone “that we have contested and proved with facts that revised probabilities were not acceptable”.

He said Irsa had tried to confuse different issues that would add to the problems instead of solving them. He said Sindh had demanded closure of the Taunsa-Punjnad and Chashma-Jhelum canals because Punjab had already utilised its share from the Indus zone.

He claimed that Irsa’s federal and Sindh members had neither been consulted in preparation of the revised probabilities nor before their presentation to the committee.

An irrigation official from Balochistan said his province supported Sindh’s stand of not allowing more water for Punjab from the Indus and demanded that the two lower provinces should be compensated by Punjab for the 400,000 acre feet of water it had been allowed to draw in December. He said the Taunsa-Punjnad canal should also be closed.

When asked if Balochistan had taken up its complaint against Sindh for allegedly not providing its share, he said the matter had been taken up, but Sindh’s representatives said they themselves could not get their full share and hence Balochistan also had to suffer. He said the issue would be taken up again at an appropriate forum.

 

[Hutchroy]

Second Editorial: Track-2 dialogue with India

One good signal came when our Indus Waters Commissioner Mr Jamaat Ali Shah left for India last week for talks with his counterpart. Reported in Nawa-e-Waqt (May 31, 2009), Indus Waters Treaty Commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah, while leaving for New Delhi to talk about waters shared by India and Pakistan, said that Pakistan was getting its share of waters under the Indus Treaty and that building a dam was the right of India. He said less water in Pakistani rivers was because of lack of rain, not because India had blocked it.

 

[karan.1970]

So you declare india as a habitual treaty/rule breaker. First it was the UN and now the WB.

Why india has to commit 'crimes' to use them as what you call 'pressure tactics'?

Is that how things work in india? The largest democracy?

Instead of taking a legal course, getting the things done by softer and civilized actions and resolving issues through mutual exchanges you prefer the Hitler school of thought?!

God Bless You!

See.. The holier than thou approach doesn&#8217;t work when your neighbor is constantly trying to destabilize you by sending its terrorists (which it calls freedom fighters)into your country. You use what ever is available at your disposal to counter it. Playing by the book especially when dealing with Pakistan is a naive approach for which India has already paid a price. Bending the treaties is nothing compared to sending over terrorists to kill innocent people, so please save the sermon...

The idea was to discuss the implications of this approach if in reality the GOI is being smart enough to use this tactic.

and btw, its not the Hitler approach but what we call Chanakya Niti of Saam Daam Dand Bhed...

Thanks for the blessings.. you too sir...

 

[karan.1970]

Second Editorial: Track-2 dialogue with India

One good signal came when our Indus Waters Commissioner Mr Jamaat Ali Shah left for India last week for talks with his counterpart. Reported in Nawa-e-Waqt (May 31, 2009), Indus Waters Treaty Commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah, while leaving for New Delhi to talk about waters shared by India and Pakistan, said that Pakistan was getting its share of waters under the Indus Treaty and that building a dam was the right of India. He said less water in Pakistani rivers was because of lack of rain, not because India had blocked it.

Interesting.. Seems like the right kind of noises being made to ensure the Talks start on the right footing...

 

[Xeric]

See.. The holier than thou approach doesn’t work when your neighbor is constantly trying to destabilize you by sending its terrorists (which it calls freedom fighters)into your country. You use what ever is available at your disposal to counter it. Playing by the book especially when dealing with Pakistan is a naive approach for which India has already paid a price. Bending the treaties is nothing compared to sending over terrorists to kill innocent people, so please save the sermon...

The idea was to discuss the implications of this approach if in reality the GOI is being smart enough to use this tactic.

and btw, its not the Hitler approach but what we call Chanakya Niti of Saam Daam Dand Bhed...

Thanks for the blessings.. you too sir...

Dont blame us if we stopped playing by the book....

BTW, you still need to prove alot. And you already screwed up your dossiers when you offered us the 'friendship' hand.

 

[kallol]

The Repesentatives of the Countries are at work and Team from Pakistan is also supposed to visit India (as per Dawn and Daily times) to verify the ground facts.

Let us wait and see what is the outcome.

Water will be a problem for the subcontinent due to the global warming and other natural factors.

It is survival at stake for all the countries.

I am sure all countries are aware of this. They definitely will be working on this to a satisfactory conclusion.

Pakistan has all the right to complain, as it did earlier, if India is deviating from the rules. I am sure you will appreciate that India changed its position after the ruling.

Another assurance is that our political system has some checks and balances which takes care of justice (though slow as generally democracies are slow).

 

[weaponx]

I think india should aggressively proceed with interlinking of rivers....

this will solve atleast our problems....our population is huge and we must think abt india......


India first.....

 

[Hutchroy]

Interesting.. Seems like the right kind of noises being made to ensure the Talks start on the right footing...

Very perceptive of Pakistan's Indus Waters Commissioner Mr Jamaat Ali Shah to make such a Statement say over Eight Months in Advance.

This statement was made in May-June 2009. Has the position changed so drastically in Eght Months? I doubt it.

Time will tell.

 

[Hutchroy]

I think india should aggressively proceed with interlinking of rivers....

this will solve atleast our problems....our population is huge and we must think abt india......


India first.....

Sorry.

India cannot - and will never be able to - deprive Pakistan its agreed amount of River Waters as per IWT.

So stop Dreaming.