First PAF IL-78 mid-air refueller aircraft arrives in Pakistan

[Barrett]

I need this model! Where can I get one? Can someone ship it out to me? Black blood, chha gya hai yara! where the heck did you find this?

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=jf-17&_armrs=1&_from=R10&_ipg=&_sop=1

 

[MaXimMaRz]

Because the only two planes that we plan on keeping in service longer then the rest are Mirages and F-7PG, JF-17 and FC-20 will be equipped with drogues and as you know F-16 has a different technology for its mid-air refueling so this left PAF to make the choice between Mirage and F-7PG.

First of all hello every one...I was away for a long time...hope every one is doing good.

1. I think Mirages are going to get replaced ASAP along with the A-5s.

2. I think we only need AAR (air to air re fueler) for JF-17 and F-16 .

3. I dont think AAR is here just to increase on station CAP timing or deeper strikes. I think the prime purpose is to provide redundancy to Second strike capability ( i am talking about nukes). People usually talk about sub marines as a good source of second strike capability but i think Fighter jets that too F-16 class will be the best solution, more flexible

 

[Barrett]

First of all hello every one...I was away for a long time...hope every one is doing good.

1. I think Mirages are going to get replaced ASAP along with the A-5s.

2. I think we only need AAR (air to air re fueler) for JF-17 and F-16 .

3. I dont think AAR is here just to increase on station CAP timing or deeper strikes. I think the prime purpose is to provide redundancy to Second strike capability ( i am talking about nukes). People usually talk about sub marines as a good source of second strike capability but i think Fighter jets that too F-16 class will be the best solution, more flexible

Hello, I can only speak for myself so i'm doing great thanks.

Let me try to explain. Mirages are not going anywhere till 2016-17 while A-5s will be decommissioned in 3 or maybe 4 years max and the other planes going out with them will be F-7P. So this left PAF to make the choice between F-7PG and Mirages to be the first to equip with refueling probes and hence it led to this.


Second strike capability is certainly something the top brass keeps into consideration but AAR facility gives you the advantage of keeping your air power in the air longer during high alert situations and another big advantage is low wear and tear due to less frequent take offs and landings.

 

[MaXimMaRz]

Hello, I can only speak for myself so i'm doing great thanks.

Let me try to explain. Mirages are not going anywhere till 2016-17 while A-5s will be decommissioned in 3 or maybe 4 years max and the other planes going out with them will be F-7P. So this left PAF to make the choice between F-7PG and Mirages to be the first to equip with refueling probes and hence it led to this.

Second strike capability is certainly something the top brass keeps into consideration but AAR facility gives you the advantage of keeping your air power in the air longer during high alert situations and another big advantage is low wear and tear due to less frequent take offs and landings.

If we look at the on station time of F-7PG and F-7Ps and the time taken to refuel them, the result would be a ration of 3:1 approx . for example it stays on CAP for 30 or 35 mins and then refuels more or less in 10 mins approx... to stay in air for another 30 to 35 mins. The ration between the refueling time and the on station time is of the essence. it may not be cost effective and operationally feasible.

As far as Mirages goes, they got a pretty good ROA (radius of action) and i am sure if you send them on a strike mission refueling after take off and before crossing the border would be a pain in the neck rather then plus point. Its like this you take off say 8 mirages one by one then they go to the rally point form up proceed to the refueling point refuel then re-form and move on. i think by that time all of the enemy ADA will be waiting as receptionists. In terms of Aircraft the only added advantage is that now the fighters in the north can go bomb some enemy target in the south. More like unpredictability.

The bottom line is we dont have the depth and need to to refuel or aircraft for strikes. For CAPs JF-17 and F-16 are the suitable option for AAR

 

[Barrett]

If we look at the on station time of F-7PG and F-7Ps and the time taken to refuel them, the result would be a ration of 3:1 approx . for example it stays on CAP for 30 or 35 mins and then refuels more or less in 10 mins approx... to stay in air for another 30 to 35 mins. The ration between the refueling time and the on station time is of the essence. it may not be cost effective and operationally feasible.

As far as Mirages goes, they got a pretty good ROA (radius of action) and i am sure if you send them on a strike mission refueling after take off and before crossing the border would be a pain in the neck rather then plus point. Its like this you take off say 8 mirages one by one then they go to the rally point form up proceed to the refueling point refuel then re-form and move on. i think by that time all of the enemy ADA will be waiting as receptionists. In terms of Aircraft the only added advantage is that now the fighters in the north can go bomb some enemy target in the south. More like unpredictability.

The bottom line is we dont have the depth and need to to refuel or aircraft for strikes. For CAPs JF-17 and F-16 are the suitable option for AAR

Brother, to be honest with you I didn't understand a word of that.
What exactly is your point ? because I was answering to Blackblood's question: "Why are mirages the first planes to get refueling probes"

 

[MaXimMaRz]

Brother, to be honest with you I didn't understand a word of that.
What exactly is your point ? because I was answering to Blackblood's question: "Why are mirages the first planes to get refueling probes"

Never mind...have fun

 

[TOPGUN]

Mirages arent going anywhere for a while its even silly to think that they are .. they have a long range strike cap plus with mid air refueling it will enhance even more plus i belive that PAF has modified several mirages for nuke strike role here to stay .

 

[MaXimMaRz]

Mirages arent going anywhere for a while its even silly to think that they are .. they have a long range strike cap plus with mid air refueling it will enhance even more plus i belive that PAF has modified several mirages for nuke strike role here to stay .

ok. i got a Question about that....how exactly do you plan to refuel a group of mirages in such a shallow depth of our country and going deeper means more music to face...what avionics do they got in this regard?

please dont mind if my question sounds silly

 

[Barrett]

Never mind...have fun

No seriously I would like you to explain what exactly is your point?
Mirages shouldn't be equipped with refueling probes?

All of us are here to learn.

 

[MaXimMaRz]

No seriously I would like you to explain what exactly is your point?
Mirages shouldn't be equipped with refueling probes?

All of us are here to learn.

My friend even if you put a re-fueling pod on K-8 that would be fruitful for the student pilots...but talking about war time our typical mirage is a bit more then a triangle piece of metal with bombs under it. It has almost zero self protection capability once inside enemy area.

Lets say you plan to go deeper in the hostile zone, mirage as a bomber would require more number of aircraft as escorts and a time would come that you will feel that the attrition rate would surpass the achievement gained from mission success.

Its not that simple to load a few aircraft refuel them some where and send them deeper. the deeper you go the more aircraft you need and the more they get shot.

As far as air refueling goes, the time taken to refuel and re-form the formation of aircraft would be equal to the time taken to the border, so why take the hassle. You can refuel if you are coming from the farthest point in Baluchistan and going for a strike on to dehli, but you don't need to refuel if you are already taking off form a place that is visible to the enemy AWACS.

If i had money i would put pods on mushak too, i mean it wont hurt to try, but then we are not rich enough. so its better to put your money on the best horse

 

[Barrett]

My friend even if you put a re-fueling pod on K-8 that would be fruitful for the student pilots...but talking about war time our typical mirage is a bit more then a triangle piece of metal with bombs under it. It has almost zero self protection capability once inside enemy area.

Lets say you plan to go deeper in the hostile zone, mirage as a bomber would require more number of aircraft as escorts and a time would come that you will feel that the attrition rate would surpass the achievement gained from mission success.

Its not that simple to load a few aircraft refuel them some where and send them deeper. the deeper you go the more aircraft you need and the more they get shot.

As far as air refueling goes, the time taken to refuel and re-form the formation of aircraft would be equal to the time taken to the border, so why take the hassle. You can refuel if you are coming from the farthest point in Baluchistan and going for a strike on to dehli, but you don't need to refuel if you are already taking off form a place that is visible to the enemy AWACS.

If i had money i would put pods on mushak too, i mean it wont hurt to try, but then we are not rich enough. so its better to put your money on the best horse

Ok now here is a situation, Pakistan is about to get a refueling tanker, the planes in your inventory are F-16, Mirage, F-7PG, F-7P and A-5 phantans.
F-16 uses a completely different technology, F-7P and A-5 will be decommissioned sooner then any other planes so you have to decide between F-7PG and Mirage. What will you do?

 

[MaXimMaRz]

Ok now here is a situation, Pakistan is about to get a refueling tanker, the planes in your inventory are F-16, Mirage, F-7PG, F-7P and A-5 phantans.
F-16 uses a completely different technology, F-7P and A-5 will be decommissioned sooner then any other planes so you have to decide between F-7PG and Mirage. What will you do?

I dont know what they will do...but i will hyberdize F-16 for it...come on we all know we are best in this field. plus i will put pods on the PGs and before thinking of putting pods on the mirages i will try to get a better avionics package for only those mirages that are not equal to scrap. and wait for JF-17 lol.

 

[Imran Khan]

My friend even if you put a re-fueling pod on K-8 that would be fruitful for the student pilots...but talking about war time our typical mirage is a bit more then a triangle piece of metal with bombs under it. It has almost zero self protection capability once inside enemy area.

Lets say you plan to go deeper in the hostile zone, mirage as a bomber would require more number of aircraft as escorts and a time would come that you will feel that the attrition rate would surpass the achievement gained from mission success.

Its not that simple to load a few aircraft refuel them some where and send them deeper. the deeper you go the more aircraft you need and the more they get shot.

As far as air refueling goes, the time taken to refuel and re-form the formation of aircraft would be equal to the time taken to the border, so why take the hassle. You can refuel if you are coming from the farthest point in Baluchistan and going for a strike on to dehli, but you don't need to refuel if you are already taking off form a place that is visible to the enemy AWACS.

If i had money i would put pods on mushak too, i mean it wont hurt to try, but then we are not rich enough. so its better to put your money on the best horse

wait now sir murad will come and he fix all this.sir murad fly mirages and he love mirages like his sons.

as per sir murad until today mirages are iron eagles and we can use them more 10 years. and i respect there view

 

[Barrett]

I dont know what they will do...but i will hyberdize F-16 for it...come on we all know we are best in this field.

please elaborate on Hybridization

plus i will put pods on the PGs

I'm sure PAF made the choice based on their experience and knowledge which is far greater then yours and mine put together.

and before thinking of putting pods on the mirages i will try to get a better avionics package for only those mirages that are not equal to scrap. and wait for JF-17 lol.

Mirage 5 ROSE


Project ROSE (Retrofit Of Strike Element) was an upgrade programme launched by the Pakistan Air Force
to upgrade old Dassault Mirage III and Mirage 5 aircraft with modern avionics. In the first phases of the project, 33 ex-Australian Mirage III fighters were upgraded and designated ROSE I. The PAF then procured surplus Mirage 5F fighters in the late 1990s from the French Air Force in two batches. 20 fighters from the first batch were upgraded with new cockpits, navigation/attack suites
Nav/attack system defensive aids systems and a FLIR sensor under the aircraft's nose/cockpit, being designated ROSE II. The cockpits included new MFDs, HUDs, HOTAS controls, radar altimeters and RWRs. 14 Mirage 5F fighters from the second batch were upgraded similarly but with newer systems and designated ROSE III. The FLIR sensors allow the Mirage 5 ROSE fighters to specialize in the night-time attack role.

 

[MaXimMaRz]

wait now sir murad will come and he fix all this.sir murad fly mirages and he love mirages like his sons.

as per sir murad until today mirages are iron eagles and we can use them more 10 years. and i respect there view

I respect your feelings....

The mustangs of WWII and F-86 saber are still loved by those who flew them, but neither those flyers nor the Aircraft can be used in war today....time changes everything and sentiments cant stop the over whelming threats and advancements in technology