Female circumcision

[Ahmad]

Yuck!

This seriously dents my earlier impression about this so-called docile nerdy community ....



Why is male circumcision imposed on male kids?

Let them grow up too and then take a call.

You are right, thats another argument. But with male circumsion, it at least doesnt come with horrible consequecnes in their adult life.

 

[vsdoc]

You are right, thats another argument. But with male circumsion, it at least doesnt come with horrible consequecnes in their adult life.

I agree about the extent but its well documented that male circumcision does lead to a certain degree of reduced responsiveness of the glans penis. Much as removal of the clitoris in the female, though to a lesser extent.

That said, it is equally untrue that a female with the outer nub of the clitoris removed is incapable of enjoying sexual stimulation. There are other doctors here who can corroborate.

 

[user1]

There is no mentioning of circumcision in Quran, male or female.

 

[niaz]

Whereas male circumcision is the norm among Muslims and Jews, female circumcision is more contentious.

Female circumcision is known to be carried out in more than 28 countries, mainly in western and southern Asia, the Middle East, including Yemen and Saudi Arabia, and parts of Africa such as Somalia, Egypt, Ethiopia and Sudan.

I have not come across any verse in the holy Quran about making circumcision obligatory be it male or female. There is however a hadith about prophet Ibrahim (AS) and interpretation according to Sahih Bukahri & Sahih Muslim that implies it is obligatory for male Muslims especially those who are born Muslims. Understand that according to Imam Abu Hanifa it is an obligation but not an ordinance.

Quote

Reported by Abu Huraira, Abraham circumcised himself at the age of eighty, using a hatchet’. Allah says Then We inspired you (with this message): Follow the creed of Abraham (16:123). Another hadith quotes Ibn Abbas as saying that the commandments by which God tested Abraham and which the latter fulfilled & were qualities of normal, sound human nature, one of which was circumcision.

Unquote.

There are very few references about female circumcision. One mentioned in Sunan Abu Dawood, book 41, number 5251 states.

Quote:

Narrated by Umm Atiyyah Al- Ansariyyah. A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The holy Prophet (PBUH) said to her “Do not cut severely as that is better for women and more desirable for a husband.”

Unquote.

In my view circumcision both male and female is tribal and cultural practice and not obligatory thru Quranic laws. It is possible that it is practiced is some communities in Pakistan but it is certainly not common. I have not come across female circumcision in Pakistani Punjab.

I believe in freedom of choice. Just as I am against Wahhabis using force to enforce their beliefs; I am against banning a cultural practice thru legal or media trial. As long as you don’t force me to follow your beliefs and practices, I am okay with it.

 

[Ahmad]

Whereas male circumcision is the norm among Muslims and Jews, female circumcision is more contentious.

Female circumcision is known to be carried out in more than 28 countries, mainly in western and southern Asia, the Middle East, including Yemen and Saudi Arabia, and parts of Africa such as Somalia, Egypt, Ethiopia and Sudan.

I have not come across any verse in the holy Quran about making circumcision obligatory be it male or female. There is however a hadith about prophet Ibrahim (AS) and interpretation according to Sahih Bukahri & Sahih Muslim that implies it is obligatory for male Muslims especially those who are born Muslims. Understand that according to Imam Abu Hanifa it is an obligation but not an ordinance.

Quote

Reported by Abu Huraira, Abraham circumcised himself at the age of eighty, using a hatchet’. Allah says Then We inspired you (with this message): Follow the creed of Abraham (16:123). Another hadith quotes Ibn Abbas as saying that the commandments by which God tested Abraham and which the latter fulfilled & were qualities of normal, sound human nature, one of which was circumcision.

Unquote.

There are very few references about female circumcision. One mentioned in Sunan Abu Dawood, book 41, number 5251 states.

Quote:

Narrated by Umm Atiyyah Al- Ansariyyah. A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The holy Prophet (PBUH) said to her “Do not cut severely as that is better for women and more desirable for a husband.”

Unquote.

In my view circumcision both male and female is tribal and cultural practice and not obligatory thru Quranic laws. It is possible that it is practiced is some communities in Pakistan but it is certainly not common. I have not come across female circumcision in Pakistani Punjab.

I believe in freedom of choice. Just as I am against Wahhabis using force to enforce their beliefs; I am against banning a cultural practice thru legal or media trial. As long as you don’t force me to follow your beliefs and practices, I am okay with it.

And this act(female circumcision) is not an unislamic act as some suggest. It is not in the Quran, but it is in quit a few Ahadith(as you posted some of them). I am glad that it is not happening in south/central asia the way it is a norm in middle east and africa.

 

[DDLJ]

While male circumcision is a ritual but female circumcision is aimed at removing all sexually active parts of female organs so that she could not indulge in adultary which is indeed the exploitation of woman who can't have a normal sexual life with her husband.

 

[vsdoc]

While male circumcision is a ritual but female circumcision is aimed at removing all sexually active parts of female organs so that she could not indulge in adultary which is indeed the exploitation of woman who can't have a normal sexual life with her husband.

Can you expand with details on the part in bold above please?

 

[DDLJ]

Can you expand with details on the part in bold above please?

It means the a women having underwent Female circumcision won't feel anything while having sex with her husband and her life is reduced just as a child producing machines. And I don't know much biology you can google about that.

 

[vsdoc]

It means the a women having underwent Female circumcision won't feel anything while having sex with her husband and her life is reduced just as a child producing machines. And I don't know much biology you can google about that.

That's what I was referring to in my earlier post. The female will still be capable of getting sexual stimulation, possibly even an orgasm, without the outer nub of the clitoris. There are many other nerve ending receptors located internally in the wall and musculature of the vagina as well as the cervix for instance. Which is why I was intrigued by your claim about "all sexually active parts of female organs." Not possible without a radical hysterectormy. And that still leave many other erogenous zones like th breasts and nipples.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

^ I wanted to share this peice with you all, once you guys post your comments i will do the same. There is no point of talking to myself.

Next time post news about Bachi Bazi, zoophilia, women abuse, child abuse, homosexuality etc that goes on in Afghanistan in a huge scale.

 

[DDLJ]

That's what I was referring to in my earlier post. The female will still be capable of getting sexual stimulation, possibly even an orgasm, without the outer nub of the clitoris. There are many other nerve ending receptors located internally in the wall and musculature of the vagina as well as the cervix for instance. Which is why I was intrigued by your claim about "all sexually active parts of female organs." Not possible without a radical hysterectormy. And that still leave many other erogenous zones like th breasts and nipples.

You are right. I looked into Wikipedia, there are four types of Female Circumcision, what you have mentioned is Type I according WHO classification and least severe, there other three more severe categories Type II,III and IV

Female genital mutilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ahmad]

Next time post news about Bachi Bazi, zoophilia, women abuse, child abuse, homosexuality etc that goes on in Afghanistan in a huge scale.

You are right, those issues need to be addressed fully in Afghanistan. What happens in Afghanistan(those things you mentioned) should be a matter of concern for us. If we dont address it or recognize our faults, we wont be able to do somthing about it.

On the other hand, you look a bit disappointed about this thread.

 

[vsdoc]

You are right. I looked into Wikipedia, there are four types of Female Circumcision, what you have mentioned is Type I according WHO classification and least severe, there other three more severe categories Type II,III and IV

Female genital mutilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is correct. Though classically what I was referring to is Type II actually.

Type I is just removal of the prepuce (the skin fold overing the clitoris) - anatomically this is equivalent to the standard male circumcision.

Type II both prepuce and clitoris are removed - anatomically this is equivalent to removal of the prepuce as well as glans penis in males.

Type III prepuce and clitoris are removed, along with extension downwards to remove the labia minora (inner genital folds) as well - this is pretty significant mutilation, with hormonal and severe sensory consequences, not to mention increased frequency of ascending urinary tract infections.

Type IV is the most radical where all of the above is removed, along with the labia majora (outer genital folds), and the remaining edges of the flaps are approximated and sewn together to completely occlude the genital opening, except for two artificial small openings - one for the urethra for urination, and the other for the vagina for intercourse and menstrual flow.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

You are right, those issues need to be addressed fully in Afghanistan. What happens in Afghanistan(those things you mentioned) should be a matter of concern for us. If we dont address it or recognize our faults, we wont be able to do somthing about it.

good thing you realized.

On the other hand, you look a bit disappointed about this thread.

Look at the topic you chose!

 

[Ahmad]

Look at the topic you chose!

What topic should it be then?

By the way, i didnt choose the topic.