FATA Situation

[MrConcerned]

Jana,

the person captured in Guantanamo is Abdullah Mehsud, who's already been killed by the PA.

Freed Guantanamo inmates take up arms - World - theage.com.au

Baitullah has never been in Guantanamo.

I thought you are a journalist??

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana,

the person captured in Guantanamo is Abdullah Mehsud, who's already been killed by the PA.

Freed Guantanamo inmates take up arms - World - theage.com.au

Baitullah has never been in Guantanamo.

I thought you are a journalist??

you need to check the statistic. It was Baittullah and not Abdullah.
i will post in details 2mrw.

anyway you continue with your Anti-Pakistan psotings.

better do not be ashamed of your true identity from acorss

 

[MrConcerned]

Abdullah Mehsud, who Pakistani officials say is dead, was a Taleban veteran of Guantanamo Bay who became one of Pakistan's most wanted Islamic militant leaders.

Mehsud, 33, spent 25 months in custody at the US base in Cuba before his release in March 2004.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Profile: Abdullah Mehsud

Tune down your writing language, and post with respect in mind. Thanks! - Web

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Jana,

Has Baitullah Mehsud operated in Afghanistan?

If not, why was he in Guantanamo? I thought only those in Afghanistan were captured and sent packing to Gitmo.

I am not too aware if those who have no connection with Afghanistan was taken into Gitmo.

I would be surprised if the Americans picked up people from Pakistan who were not involved in Afghanistan.

If indeed this Mehsud is a Pakistani, then does it not prove that Pakistanis were also in Afghanistan? And disprove Road Runner's vehement denial?

Or is this Mehsud an Afghani operating in Pakistan?

All this contradiction is really confusing from those who are not from Pakistan.

What is the reality?

And the correct fact position?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

MrConcerned:

Stop denying the obvious. That will be a good first step. No wonder the international countries are enraged at what they see are Pakistan's obsfucation and denials.

What obfuscation and denials? From your own source:

"I know that at some [border] posts a blind eye was being turned," Musharraf told reporters today, "but we are taking all kinds of action to the people implementing our orders on the ground at the checkpoints.""....


General Pervez Musharraf, the president of Pakistan, made a rare admission on Sunday before hundreds of Pakistani and Afghan delegates at a grand tribal assembly here, saying that support for militants emanating from Pakistan had caused problems for Afghanistan, and that his country should work to secure peace on its side of their mutual border.

That clearly indicates that Musharraf realizes the problem - if there was "denial and obfuscation" there would never have been any recognition of the problems he mentioned. The first quote is very telling - it indicates that while the GoP issued specific orders, they were apparently not implemented on the ground by border officials, who are probably FC (Tribal recruits who perhaps were more amenable to being convinced to turn a blind eye). There are strong ties between the FC and the people in FATA, and complications that may have arisen take time to work out - I don't see denial and obfuscation here, I see hitherto unforeseen complications being recognized and worked out over time

About the whole Taliban thing. I believe that RR and Jan do have legitimate points about their being no such thing as a "unified Taliban force". In fact I would argue that there is no such thing as a unified "Pakistan Taliban force". Only recently was the Tehrik Taliban Pakistan (TTP) formed by combining several local Taliban groups (not all).

On Friday, a shura, or council, of 40 senior Taliban leaders established the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan -- the Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan -- and appointed powerful South Waziristan Taliban commander Baitullah Mehsud its leader.

The shura was made up of Taliban representatives from the seven tribal agencies of North and South Waziristan, Khyber, Orakazi, Bajaur, Mohmand, and Kurram, as well as the settled districts of Swat, Bannu, Tank, Lakki Marwat, Dera Ismail Khan, Kohistan, Buner, and the Malakand division.
Pakistani Taliban unites under Baitullah Mehsud - The Long War Journal

What the article suggests is that the Taliban are a motley array of groups, with no unified command or control until this recent event. What the article also suggests is that RR's assertion about Tribe sensitivities is also correct. Note that before the TTP, the Taliban seem to be divided on a regional (Tribal) basis. Note also the tensions between Mullah Nazir (Ahmedzai Wazir and pro GoP Taliban) and Baitullah Mehsud (Mehsud tribe and anti GoP Taliban).

If the same situation is replicated in Afghanistan (assuming the tribal structures are similar) then it is not likely that the insurgency is being waged by "outside Tribes". Yes there are probably some militants from either side of the border (and foreigners -Arabs, Chechens etc.) mingling and fighting with Taliban of each tribe - but the majority of the militants more than likely belong to that particular area or Tribe, as is evident from the quote above about the situation in FATA.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

AM,

There may be no unified force called the Taliban or even AQ, and it maybe true that Tribal affinity is the core of each group, but then to state that there is no cross border support would also be far fetched.

If indeed 100O people can be mustered to attack and it is again repeated, then it is not a very comfortable thought, because under the cloak of being Talibans, they are actually up in rebellion to separate from the entity called Pakistan.

I rather think that they are misguided Islamists than secessionists!

Therefore, fighting the Taliban, who think that they are the vanguard of Islam, is still a better option that to ever imagine that secessionists are at work.

It bring back the theory of Pakhtunistan.

Whatever, it is not a comfortable situation.

What is the correct situation?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Reading the DAWN, I came across this letter to the editor---this gentleman should have writing for the defence forum---here it is for your reading---


It is baffling how 400 Taliban fighters, indicating a battalion-sized force, had overrun and captured the Sararogha Fort. These forts, built by the British, were intended to serve as outposts. The purpose of such forward military bases is to observe insurgent activity, to patrol the area and to block the enemy from threatening the local population.

The Sararogha Fort sits on a ridge overlooking the Razmak-Jandola Road. Given that the insurgents were carrying heavy weaponry, mortars and rocket launchers, it is unlikely that they came on foot. To transport such a force with their munitions would require a convoy of minimum 40 vehicles.

The terrain is rugged – there are patches of pine forest, also some agricultural plots mostly terraced, but for the most part, are rocky. Mean elevation is 2,000m – peaks at 2,200m and valleys at 1,800m. In this time of rain, the area is well watered by torrential streams. As a result, the off-road terrain is ‘unjeepable’ given the rocky, terrace and water obstacles. In all probability, therefore, the Taliban convoy travelled on the main road on the Razmak to Sararogha segment.

As is usual in night operations, the convoy would have waited till sundown and then mobilised -- indicating 5.30pm local time. The attack itself commenced at 9pm, which means they must have arrived at a safe nearby spot around 8pm and begun to regroup and take positions for the assault. This indicates a two-and-a-half hours travel time.

If the 40-odd vehicles travelled in a single convoy from start, then it could well have come out of the pine forested Shawal Mountains that straddle the Afghan border. These mountains can be seen from Razmak and are less than 50 miles from the Sararogha Fort. Alternatively, several smaller convoys of four to five vehicles, hidden in the small residential settlements, could have converged on the main road from different directions. This mode would generate considerable wireless chatter that savvy intelligence can pick up. In either mode, the convoys would be travelling with headlights off except for the lead vehicle — a suspicious thing even for a casual onlooker.

It is baffling that a convoy of 40 vehicles carrying armed Taliban, travelling on the main road for several miles can elude intelligence, roadside checkposts and aerial surveillance.

The operation commenced around 9pm with the Taliban breaching a hole in the wall of the fort using explosives. Even then, the 38 FC personnel held off the invading battalion for six hours. When did the FC HQ receive the first distress signal? Was it communicated to their commander?

Did the commander request for reinforcements for his men in trouble? What is the standard operating procedure in an event of this nature?

As the FC men fought on, was a request sent to the Army Aviation squadrons under the Peshawar Corps to send in the Cobra AH1-F attack helicopters -- eight of which are night-capable (C-NITE equipped)? Did the Ludda Fort nearby receive a distress call requesting artillery fire on the Taliban position? What artillery equipment was available to it and who was going to make the decision? Was it in artillery range and were the Taliban’s coordinates known?

Apart from rescuing the lives of the 38 FC personnel and the morale of all other FC personnel, this was an opportunity to take out 400 Taliban fighters – thereby striking a major blow to their operations in the area.

The Taliban butchered and captured the FC personnel, and after removing ammunition and communications equipment, set the fort on fire and made their way back probably reaching their safe havens before sunrise. Again, nobody saw where the 40 vehicles carrying armed Taliban went, and so they live to fight another day.

This brings us to the question: Are we conducting our national fight against these elements to the best of our abilities? This is the real battle for Pakistan. I would urge Gen Kayani to hold an inquest into this case. I am concerned that in the not too distant future we may be facing a Taliban assault force of brigade strength.

MOAZZAM HUSSAIN,
Lahore

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM,

There may be no unified force called the Taliban or even AQ, and it maybe true that Tribal affinity is the core of each group, but then to state that there is no cross border support would also be far fetched.

If indeed 100O people can be mustered to attack and it is again repeated, then it is not a very comfortable thought, because under the cloak of being Talibans, they are actually up in rebellion to separate from the entity called Pakistan.

I rather think that they are misguided Islamists than seccessionists!

Therefore, fighting the Taliban, who think that they are the vanguard of Islam, is still a better option that to ever imagine that secessionists are at work.

It bring back the theory of Pakhtunistan.

Whatever, it is not a comfortable situation.

Cross border support is present, but then the situation is so complicated that Iran has been accused by both the Afghan Govt. (their former NA allies) and the US of supplying weapons and support to the militants. P2bP mentioned Iranian weapons showing up in Pakistan in Parachinar, and the Iranians have accused the US of supporting Jundullah in Baluchistan (in Iran, though no doubt they are committing mischief in Pakistan as well). It has been pretty much admitted by both sides that there is no way to prevent people from crossing the border if they please.

Salim a thousand people does not seem to large a force given precedent. The Wazirs were able to assemble a 600 man Lashkar in a few days after the killing of the 8 Jirga members. The Mehsud tribe is larger, and they are known to be sheltering non Pashtun militants, the cause of their fallout with the Wazir (300 foreign militants were killed in that drive within the Wazir areas alone). So while there probably are militants from other Tribes fighting with the Mehsud now (given he is the leader of the TTP now), even alone he would be able to assemble such a force.

I also disagree with the premise of secession, given the ideology of the people here. AQ is looking for a Pan-Islamic empire, and while the immediate goal for the Taliban may be to rid Afghanistan of the US occupation, this would probably turn into a "Greater Islamic state of Afghanistan and Pakistan" drive. Extreme Islamism at its core seems to me to be "territorially unifying" not seccessionist.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

About pakistani froces involvement in afghanistan during the russian invasion---my aunt's brother in law was a non comm an ssg---in 82 or 83 I met him---he talked discreetly about a few trips that he had taken into afghanistan---he talked about encounters with russians in afghanistan---later he was posted as security to the pakistan embassy in poland---his body came back in a sealed coffin---family was not allowed to open it. Rumour had it that the russians avenged their loss.

Pakistanis indeed took quite a few trips into afghanistan to test the mettle and quality of its special forces. If somebody says to the contrary, they are either ill informed or are hiding the truth.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Mastan,

That DAWN letter was an eye opener.

One can understand the systemic problems better and not go by the sensationalism of the journalists who because of their inability to understand the situation, indirectly because of blissful ignorance, painted a gloomy picture and with false national pride, left it to be inferred that the FC men were chumps and incompetent coots that let the nation down.

This letter proves that because of total systemic failure, the FC men were sacrificial goats and are no less gutsy as anyone else wearing the uniform.

Thank you for this since it makes me comfortable that the men in uniform, whatever be the colour, fof their uniform, are still ready to soldier on for the Nation!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Hi,

About pakistani froces involvement in afghanistan during the russian invasion---my aunt's brother in law was a non comm an ssg---in 82 or 83 I met him---he talked discreetly about a few trips that he had taken into afghanistan---he talked about encounters with russians in afghanistan---later he was posted as security to the pakistan embassy in poland---his body came back in a sealed coffin---family was not allowed to open it. Rumour had it that the russians avenged their loss.

Pakistanis indeed took quite a few trips into afghanistan to test the mettle and quality of its special forces. If somebody says to the contrary, they are either ill informed or are hiding the truth.

My condolences to the bereaved.

A high price to pay for one's nation and the Nation should be proud of their contribution!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Salim,

Thankyou. People don't realize that these forts that the FC is entrenched in were not designed for today's modern warfare. They are a remnant of the past and their location and design is as such that it is very difficult for 50 people to defend it against 400---700 fighters who are pretty well equipped. If the FC man can shoot down 500 yds down slope---the insurgent can also shoot up-slope 500 yds with the same accuracy.

Now on top of that, add to it the fire power of 500 insurgents from 4 sides. You are looking at so much firepower that the 36 men in the fort would not have any chance to raise their heads and fire back----but they did---bottomline is the 36 or 50 is too few a number to hold that fort down against an onslaught of 500 plus. Now if they were between 100 to a 150 and they laid their weapons down---that would be a big concern. But close to half of them laid their lives down---accordingly the battle raged on for 6 hours---that is a long long time for such a small group to hold on against such a large force.

I personally believe that there is a major cover up happening at this time in the millitary. I can't seem to put my finger on the issue. Even the top brass is involved in the cover up. Looks like some really really weak General commanding officer has been promoted to the higher rank.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

One of the biggest problem is the mindset.

The military mind, at all level, is regimented to think in a oriented fashion.

The unusual usually confounds.

Hence, the mismatch.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Forces capture 50 militants in S. Waziristan operation​

Updated at Saturday, January 19, 2008 1745 PST

ISLAMABAD: Security forces captured 50 militants in an operation in the rugged tribal region of South Waziristan, the military said Saturday.

Troops also recovered 10 bodies of miscreants from Chaghmalai area of South Waziristan, chief military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas said.

"Security forces have completed operation in Chaghmalai area and captured 40 militants," he told Geo News. "The village has been completely cleared of the militants," he said. Troops also recovered 10 bodies of miscreants from Chaghmalai area killed yesterday in an operation.

Security forces also launched a search operation in Tank area and arrested 10 militants including some of their local commanders, the spokesman said.

The forces fought off insurgents in Ladha area and periodic exchange of fire was continued in the area.

The skirmishes between security forces and the miscreants continued for last five days in various parts of South Waziristan resulting in death of over 130 miscreants.

Security forces launched an operation against miscreants in Swat and detained 10 miscreants along with weapons and explosives stocked in a mosque of the area.


Forces capture 50 militants in S. Waziristan operation

 

[spanion_ank]

we are also very much worried about pakistan as we are far away from pakistan God bless pakistan and long live pakistan