Facing China threat, Vietnam seeks American balance

[nufix]

Nope. Any reason to?

Actually, for a complete story you can read the books by George R. R. Martin first, then you can go for the series created by HBO. Frankly speaking I read and watch it because I find it quite amusing, and it is not cheap rate movie series.

There's one thing I learn (as a student of Politics) in the movie; it is all about games, you don't point your sword because you hate your opponent, you point it because you have a business to settle with. Once it is done, you can draw it back and make "friends" with them or simply put an end to your opponent. Just like when Walder Frey took the Starks of Winterfell as a friend first when King Robb Stark had the Lannisters on the run, and later took the Lannisters when King Robb broke his oath to marry Frey girl and threaten Walder Frey position to the winning Lannisters. Not to mention that well, personally, Walder had a grudge to the High lords of the north.

So going from that, we can imagine that the Twins of the crossing is Vietnam, Stark is China and the Lannister is U.S.A. Both had great power and wealth and allies, where Walder (Vietnam) is a middle power, trapped in big countries interests. Walder of the Twins doesn't have enough firepower to conformally declare alliance with one of fighting factions and directly involved in the war , but in order to save his position, regardless the outcome of the war, he used Stark when the Stark had the Lannister on the run for the sake of the northmen, just like when Vietnam befriended China to assist her during Vietnam war for the sake of Communism when South Vietnam armies were on the run from the NVA. And later, when the Stark (China) started to endanger Walder's (Vietnam's) position, he turned to the Lannister of Casterly Rocks for support. And in the end of Book 3, the much smaller fortress and army of the Twins of the crossing still stands in the midst of the warring big factions with their great fortress and army.

There's no honorable and dishonorable thing in Politics, everything is grey, you have got to endure with everything in your disposal or you lose and you die with nothing to gain. I would not be saying Vietnam is dishonorable by taking its former friend as its current opponent as long as the purpose is to save Vietnam's existence and security, I'd rather say it brilliant.

Mark this one, in Politics, honorable man dies quickly, simply just like Jon Arryn, followed by Ned Stark in the film I mentioned earlier. So never ever say any political and diplomatic decisions as dishonorable or honorable, because we will never understand unless you work for Vietnam's foreign diplomatic chamber.

The same thing goes for China too, I would not be saying China's political decision is good or bad, because I don't know what's the thing that became the factor of the decision. As a great power, China plays its growing Pivots and play the game of break and divide, just like when the lord of Casterly Rocks, Tywin Lannister broke House Bolton's vow to Robb Stark and finally make House Bolton betrayed the Starks of Winterfell, a fellow Northern Lordship.

 

[Wholegrain]

and u started with"China is stronger than VN , so China can crush VN easily"

So, we VN have better missile than u, then we can crush u easily ,too


No one r allowed to sell ballistic missile and nuke capable missile to other nations, so we made those missile ourselve,dude

Yeah all that Soviet made Scud B technology, and Russian made anti ship missles were developed by Vietnam LOL. Vietnam is still buying entire missle launchers and batteries from other nations while North Korea is building long range missles and launching sattelites and has nukes, and they have a population 5 times smaller than Vietnam, are under international sanctions, and nobody is selling weapons to them.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

and u started with"China is stronger than VN , so China can crush VN easily"

So, we VN have better missile than u, then we can crush u easily ,too

So. Is it a lie that China is stronger than Vietnam & can defeat Vietnam?

 

[ChinaToday]

and u started with"China is stronger than VN , so China can crush VN easily"

So, we VN have better missile than u, then we can crush u easily ,too


No one r allowed to sell ballistic missile and nuke capable missile to other nations, so we made those missile ourselve,dude

hey are you stupid or what ? read the title again Facing China threat, Vietnam seeks American balance does this title sound like Vietnam is stronger than china

 

[Rechoice]

And Vietnam was slave to China for over 1,000 years and slave to France. The pathetic Viet Minh did not accomplish anything during World War 2 against Vichy France or Japan. Last time I checked a map, Britain and Japan never took over the eniter China, the entire Japan was occupied by America.

Russia was also a slave to Mongols and the Soviet Union would have been squashed by nazi germany if they didn't receive American aid. China fought both the Soviet Union and Japan in world war 2. The soviets attacked china in 1937 in Xinjiang and in 1944 the Soviets and communist Uyghur separatists under Ahmad jan Qasim attacked China in the Ili rebellion.

The pathetic Viet Minh also could not lift a finger when the Republic of China occupied north Vietnam after receiving the Japanese surrenders when world war 2 ended. The entire north vietnam was under China's control, and France was the one who managed to secure China's withdrawl after the French had to give up all their concessions and privileges in China. Vietnam could not do anything against the Republic of China army.

Vietnam was a slave state to the Soviet Union and allied to the humiliated stooge Najibullah in Afghanistan.

You chinese don't have nothing to say about truth was that Chinese were slaves of Mongolian, and etc... and Portuals until 1999 year, lucky numer 1999. You kneed and begged. Today, in reality Taiwan is under control of USA. China is not Independence State now

we have been beating all invaders, aggressors: China, France, USA and last China 1979 ran away. It's clear.

 

[Wholegrain]

You chinese don't have nothing to say about truth was that Chinese were slaves of Mongolian, and etc... and Portuals until 1999 year, lucky numer 1999. You kneed and begged. Today, in reality Taiwan is under control of USA. China is not Independence State now

we have been beating all invaders, aggressors: China, France, USA and last China 1979 ran away. It's clear.

I can say the exact war in which Hong Kong was taken, that was in the Opium War.

I challenge you to find the non existent war in which Portugal took Macau from China. . In the battles fought between Portugal and the Ming dynasty, Portugal LOST.

Tere are sources on these articles in the references,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Tamao

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Tamao

Macau was leased, Portugal could not take anything with military force before they were whipped and beaten by China.

No evident showed that China involved in Afganistant, it shoud be propaganda of CCP when you are slaves of USA.

Article is sourced by references.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovie...Foreign_involvement_and_aid_to_the_mujahideen

The biggest foreign shipment of weapons were not the American stinger missles, but Dashika machine guns, type 56 rifles, mines, and missles from China. There were training camps operated in China by the People's liberation army near the border with Afghanistan.

Vietnam was ruled by China for over 1,000 years, and China started to beat the Mongols just after 80 years of rule, China defeated France in Taiwan during the Keelung Campaign and forced them with agree to withdraw from Taiwan and the Pescadores, Vietnam beat France in 1954 and America only with massive foreign help from Communist bloc states, it was supported with weapons shipments by the Soviet Union and technical assistance. If thats called "beating all invaders". Vietnam always had to beg a more powerful state like China or the Soviet Union for help and be a vassal slave state. Vietnam begged China for help after France smashed Vietnam in the Tonkin Campaign.

 

[ViXuyen]

I can say the exact war in which Hong Kong was taken, that was in the Opium War.

I challenge you to find the non existent war in which Portugal took Macau from China. . In the battles fought between Portugal and the Ming dynasty, Portugal LOST.

Tere are sources on these articles in the references,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Tamao

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Tamao

Macau was leased, Portugal could not take anything with military force before they were whipped and beaten by China.



Article is sourced by references.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovie...Foreign_involvement_and_aid_to_the_mujahideen

The biggest foreign shipment of weapons were not the American stinger missles, but Dashika machine guns, type 56 rifles, mines, and missles from China. There were training camps operated in China by the People's liberation army near the border with Afghanistan.

Vietnam was ruled by China for over 1,000 years, and China started to beat the Mongols just after 80 years of rule, China defeated France in Taiwan during the Keelung Campaign and forced them with agree to withdraw from Taiwan and the Pescadores, Vietnam beat France in 1954 and America only with massive foreign help from Communist bloc states, it was supported with weapons shipments by the Soviet Union and technical assistance. If thats called "beating all invaders". Vietnam always had to beg a more powerful state like China or the Soviet Union for help and be a vassal slave state. Vietnam begged China for help after France smashed Vietnam in the Tonkin Campaign.

Viet Nam humiliated China in 1979 both politically and military without any foreign help

 

[Wholegrain]

Viet Nam humiliated China in 1979 both politically and military without any foreign help

China humiliated Vietnam

Johnson South Reef Skirmish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Battle of the Paracel Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And in the "boundary adjustments" after the war was finish, Vietnam gave up land to China.

 

[ViXuyen]

China humiliated Vietnam

Johnson South Reef Skirmish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Battle of the Paracel Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And in the "boundary adjustments" after the war was finish, Vietnam gave up land to China.

Read the Gulf of Beibu Treaty in 1999, China sure is a sore loser. Viet Nam gain a net of 8000 square kilometers of sea area

Touting about the Johnson Reef where you shot our unarmed sailors and transport ship is the best supa bowa military feat that you got against us; quite pathetic for you Chinese

 

[Wholegrain]

Read the Gulf of Beibu Treaty in 1999, China sure is a sore loser. Viet Nam gain a net of 8000 square kilometers of sea area

Touting about the Johnson Reef where you shot our unarmed sailors and transport ship is the best supa bowa military feat that you got against us; quite pathetic for you Chinese

Cool story, bro. A ship of the Vietnamese Navy full of Vietnamese naval military personnel just happened to be unarmed when they suffer defeat, near a reef that they knew was disputed, everyone totally buys that.

If every country in the world acted like Vietnam, every time a country suffers a defeat their soldiers are mysteriously unarmed.

In the gulf of beibu treaty, Vietnam did not even get what it was entitled to under the full effect of its EEZ. Vietnam did not get the 8000 sq km FROM China, it just got 8000 km MORE than China when the boundaries were being drawn.

http://cat.middlebury.edu/~scs/docs/zou keyuan-sino-vietnam boundary delimitation.pdf

One important circumstance not mentioned in the Boundary Agreement is the effect of islands on the delimitation line. The two parties agreed to give the Bach Long Vi Island a 25% effect, thus this mid-ocean island has a 12 nautical mile territorial sea and a 3 nautical mile EEZ and continental shelf. Another small Vietnamese island, Con Co Island, about 13 nautical miles off the coast of Vietnam at the mouth of the Gulf of Tonkin, was given a 50% effect in the delimitation of the EEZs and continental shelves along the closing line of the Gulf.18 Full effect for these Vietnamese islands would have moved the boundary line in favor of Vietnam; no effect would have favored China. The final agreement on the effect to be given these two islands is obviously a negotiated compromise.

 

[Wholegrain]

China is big country with hug population, but was ruled by small nations. It's problem.

Before the Mongols conquered Song China, the first conquered the xixia, the entire central asia, persia, the abbasid caliphate in Iraq, and then Russia. Their empire was then ten times bigger than China. The mongols then drew upon soldiers and engineers from all parts of their massive new empire and it took them over 30 years to conquer Song China while they swept over the steppes of Russia, central asia and to baghdad in a few years. The Mongols also used hundreds of thousands of northern Chinese soldiers from the former Jin dynasty to conquer the Song.

The Manchus first defeated the Mongols and Koreans and forced both of them to ally with their state. They then drew thousands of defectors from China. The manchus could not even penetrate Shanhai pass at the great wall until the Ming general Wu Sangui defected to their side with his army, because rebels under Li Zicheng overthrew the Ming emperor and killed Wu's father. They then managed to take over China only with the help of Wu Sangui and his massive army of .ming defectors. In fact most of their soldiers were not Manchu but Han people.

Britain ruled over a massive empire already when it attacked China in the Opium Wars. Britain ruled Canada, India, singapore and parts of Malaya and colonies in Africa. The British used armies of Indian sepoys to attack China and fleets based in India and resupplied in Malaya and Singapore. Te population of their entire empire was near China's population and their territory was bigger than China.

All those empires which attacked China were bigger in China in botth population and area.

 

[ViXuyen]

Cool story, bro. A ship of the Vietnamese Navy full of Vietnamese naval military personnel just happened to be unarmed when they suffer defeat, near a reef that they knew was disputed, everyone totally buys that.

If every country in the world acted like Vietnam, every time a country suffers a defeat their soldiers are mysteriously unarmed.

In the gulf of beibu treaty, Vietnam did not even get what it was entitled to under the full effect of its EEZ. Vietnam did not get the 8000 sq km FROM China, it just got 8000 km MORE than China when the boundaries were being drawn.

http://cat.middlebury.edu/~scs/docs/zou keyuan-sino-vietnam boundary delimitation.pdf

EEZ or not, Viet Nam netted 8000 km more than China in this treaty, not 8, 80, 800 but 8000 km of square kilometers of sea area. I'm pretty sure China would take it if it got 8000 km of sea area more than Viet Nam; not to mention the Chinese side loses massive fishing rights.

And yes, the Vietnamese transport ship at Johnson Reef was unarmed that's why they could not fire back, see videos for yourself.

 

[soaringeagle]

Actually they did killed millions of unarmed (now ASEAN ) citizens in the 70s and 80s.

I agree, it is comedy, because of the millions of non existent Chinese "killed" in the region, also considering that dozens of Prime Ministers of Thailand have been ethnic Chinese and the Thai King is part Chinese.

Also whats comedic is that the nations of Vietnam and India, both of which were entirely under the control of French and British masters who treated the locals like dogs are laughing about a sign in a fictional Bruce Lee movie.

This comedy can't get any better, I'm laughing so hard right now.

 

[Soryu]

Nope. Any reason to?

@Soryu Learn English properly before you join an international forum.

Yeah, and you should go to real life and learn more life experience before you speak about Vietnam-USA relationship and history.

Ask Nice Guy he's started it with "Vietnamese missiles flying toward Indonesia." I agree Dominate is a poor choices of word. More like Bigger .

The only dispute we have is between me & Nice Guy.

So you can just ignore him and spare it !???

Nice Guy is proud that Vietnam has scud missles while Indonesia doesn't, what he doesn't mention is that none of them were manufactured by Vietnam. A country under international sanctions like North Korea can develop long range ballistic missles and nuclear bombs, and a country like Vietnam which is openly supported by Russia and the west and which is not under sanctions, cannot built any of its own ballistic missles or anti ship missles, all of which are bought from Russia.

I'm so scared.... When the spare parts to the scuds fall out will Vietnam beg Russia for replacements?

Did you know how long since Russian sell their missiles for Vietnam!?

We're produce many part of these Scud for replacements, and in the near future, when Russia-Vietnam cooperation in produce X-35U missile begin, we have more capable for missile production.

 

[Soryu]

China humiliated Vietnam

Johnson South Reef Skirmish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Battle of the Paracel Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And in the "boundary adjustments" after the war was finish, Vietnam gave up land to China.

Sorry Kid, we'll never give up to China about anything.
China robbed our Islands when we were in weak time, but we still fighting brave and hold most Islands in our control.

You can laugh with Ah-Q spirit that you win, but remember, Japanese was slaughter Chinese in WW2 like trash mud, and you can not against them until USA and SU kick them out for you.
And until now, Taiwanese still love Japan more than PRC ...

So. Is it a lie that China is stronger than Vietnam & can defeat Vietnam?

Of course that things can happen, may be. But they never can crush VN so easily.

Actually they did killed millions of unarmed (now ASEAN ) citizens in the 70s and 80s.

Hmm, The wars were happend, and many people died, USA do it, China do it, Cambodia do it, in more brutal way than Vietnam, read it in history.