F-35’s can knock down whole PAF & IAF: Pervez Hoodboy

[crankthatskunk]

Fly by wire ka wire kaat do, khail khatam (before idiots start to abuse me, it is a metaphor).
Vulnerability is the world.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Pata nahi nashtay mian kiya khata hay ye banda.

 

[Fledgingwings]

What is he smoking these days ?

Limp d**k science crack.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Fifth generation aircraft — such as the F-35 stealth fighter — have tilted an already tilted playing field much further. In Atlantic war exercises these fighters have been repeatedly tested against the kind of third- and fourth-generation fighters like those currently in the Pakistani and Indian air fleets. While kill ratios are secret, they are sometimes leaked. Assuming the leaks are correct, in some hypothetical war just two squadrons of American F-35s could knock down the combined might of the PAF and IAF fleets fighting together for the loss of just one F-35 — or perhaps none.


https://www.dawn.com/news/1475818

What is he smoking these days ?

What's surprising about this? Just four Pakistan F-16 squadrons could knock out the entire USAF, German Luftwaffe and RAF from World War 2. Just four Spitfire squadrons could have knocked out entire German Airforce Fokker fleet from World Waer One. This is how it works. Technology continously evolves making previous gen redundant.

So what is he smoking? Reality.

 

[iFFe]

First half of your post is European narrative and rest is correct Europeans just never admit that they lost against Muslims. They never give credit to Muslims for anything. Absolute bollocks is what they write .
They were huge huge huge force . Attacking .Enemy on its own soil is not a joke .you need at least 5 times more army to initiate such attack .
And romands and Persians were well equipped and romans werea naturallywarriors . They were not easy to defeat. Europeans make it look like that they gave it to Muslims like a hot cake. Very easy. DONT LISTEN TO them.

There has always been a gap in various asoects between us and them. However , ALLAH has promised us thar we will be victorious if we are momin and even if t he ratio is 1 is to 10 between us and enemy

I agree that we need to make progress and look around. BUT we don't need doubt ourselves or get scared by something .
We have always compensated for that gap by our passion to fight and transit to the world which is eternal .
I hope you get my point

There is a very famous hadees, I'm quoting below;

Anas ibn Malik reported: A man said, “O Messenger of Allah, should I tie my camel and trust in Allah, or should I leave her untied and trust in Allah?” The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Tie her and trust in Allah.”

Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2517

One of the lesson/explanation from this hadees is that as Muslims we have to take responsibility and have to make sure that we put our affairs in order. And this is what (I believe) @LeGenD was trying to say, that we also need to put our affairs in order.

Although I dont believe a 2 squadrons of F-35 can take out whole of PAF. But F-35 does presents a challenge, even if it is half as good as it is said to be. We have a 'responsibility' to be prepared not just for it and but for something even 200% better or advance then it.

Another point which I would like to make is that there is no rule book which says you have to counter a fighter plane with a fighter plane. You can counter it with anything as long as it produces result.

*cough* may be *cough* autonomous UCAV *cough*

 

[tkmd]

I am a little disturbed by the endless posts here that somehow Hoodhboy is insane. Hes a PhD in Physics, extremely well read and is being treated here like hes Khadim Hussain Rizvi.

If the US decided to deploy its fleet of F16s...Pakistan would be overwhelmed. Lets not even talk about the F-35. This is not to downplay the training/courage/morale of our forces. But come on guys lets get real. Furthermore, they could do the same to India and we all know that too.

Our forces lived in the real world for perhaps the first time in my life in this Balakot encounter. They knew their capability, knew their limitations and engaged the enemy on their terms. Lets not go back to living in a fairy tale world.

 

[mingle]

F35 has very good sensors no doubt but critics say it's a fat turkey not a good dog fighter due to small wings not much lift like F104.

 

[shambhu]

Lol. Name ONE Indian citizen who got the Nobel Prize in the field of science after India got independence.
Pakistan already has one: Dr. Abdul Salam. You have NONE. Now go crawl back to your sh*thole.

good you remember dr abdul salam

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Bahi woh Keh raha hai F35 purchase Karo


Yeh I feel it F35 can replace our old F16s or we can it separate 36 pieces r enough to keep India at Bay and Modis Rafale

I was reading on twitter by US defence Jurno that F35 prices slated 75 million per copy by US Govt if its true then we should go far it rather new F16 I know it's waiting time but LM built assembly at Italy too.

bhai f16 to khariday nahi ja rahay 75 million ka yeh toy is waqat hamari economy bardasht nahi ker sakti.
lakin f35 agressive fighter nahi hai. Turkey bhi intrested nahi hai. f22 130million ka hai su35 ziyada acha rahay ga.

 

[mingle]

bhai f16 to khariday nahi ja rahay 75 million ka yeh toy is waqat hamari economy bardasht nahi ker sakti.
lakin f35 agressive fighter nahi hai. Turkey bhi intrested nahi hai. f22 130million ka hai su35 ziyada acha rahay ga.

Hamara Bakra hamasha kiston main hi Ata Hai

 

[pahadi]

Lol. Name ONE Indian citizen who got the Nobel Prize in the field of science after India got independence.
Pakistan already has one: Dr. Abdul Salam. You have NONE. Now go crawl back to your sh*thole.

If that single person can fix pakistan, then surely ask him to do the needful, and do compare no of patents....

And a single DG of ISPR is enough to put all of India in it's place.

Your same DG was so Confused that he claimed his own pilots as ours, later denied too, putting pakistan and army into face saving mode, where is that second pilot that was alive?

We literally launched airstrikes in India and took out two of your aircraft whilst you were (and are) unable to do anything.

ask your DG, why did it took so long for him to take international media to that hill top?? 43 days? looks like repair work is quick in Pakistan, a lot of practice from LOC?

dr .hoodbhoy is a respected physicist , he is detested by right wing pakistanis because of his secular values .

and does that gives the whole of Pakistan the audacity to compare him and his IQ to 1.4 billion people? our country is right now a developing country, yet our people pack a punch in their identity, do Pakistanis have such favorable identity across the world? let alone a favorable point of view from leading companies....

 

[Aasimkhan]

You can all politely disagree with Dr. Hoodbhoy's analysis, but can you please stop bashing him? He's an INVALUABLE ASSET to our country.

No he is not
He could have been had he remained on his subject which is physics
But he started venturing into politics that too anti Pakistan, that's why he lost all respect

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Hi,

Being defensive against a committed or a larger enemy---gets you destroyed every time---.

Absolutely bullseye sir thats where powerful thermonuclear weapons and road mobile marved icbms breaks the back of all such calculations

 

[litman]

I am a little disturbed by the endless posts here that somehow Hoodhboy is insane. Hes a PhD in Physics, extremely well read and is being treated here like hes Khadim Hussain Rizvi.

If the US decided to deploy its fleet of F16s...Pakistan would be overwhelmed. Lets not even talk about the F-35. This is not to downplay the training/courage/morale of our forces. But come on guys lets get real. Furthermore, they could do the same to India and we all know that too.

Our forces lived in the real world for perhaps the first time in my life in this Balakot encounter. They knew their capability, knew their limitations and engaged the enemy on their terms. Lets not go back to living in a fairy tale world.

but the chances of a war between US and pak and US and india are zero so why should we compare between the aerial capabilities of these countries. it would be waste of time to compare the air forces like e.g pak ys nepal and at the end one says that one squadron of pak f-16s can destroy the entire air force of nepal.

 

[LeGenD]

lol that ''superpower'' could not kill few thousand cavemen in 20 years and you are talking about 1 hour?

Ever bothered to take a look at the sheer size of American nuclear arsenal?

Allow me.

Majority of those warheads are thermonuclear. In fact, reports are surfacing that US have scrapped INF nuclear treaty with Russia and started to expand its nonstrategic nuclear arsenal base.

Emphasis mine. US can bring can end to the entire world as we know, if it wants to. Forget Afghanistan. A small number of thermonuclear weapons are sufficient to wipe Afghanistan clean, but their radiation might creep into neighboring countries (depending upon the flow of winds) and end up killing/ruining the lives of many more.

Now take a step back from nuclear weapons, and take a look at what US-led forces can achieve through conventional bombing as well.

[1] This is the city of Raqqa - former stronghold of ISIS in Syria.

US-led forces blasted this city into ruins during clashes with ISIS-affiliates, turning it into a ghost town for a while.

[2] This is the city of Dresden - one of the centers of power of Nazi regime in Germany.

US-led forces blasted this city into ruins with a fleet of long-range bombers, and the sheer scale of devastation rivaled a nuclear strike on a city.

[3] This is the city of Tokyo - capital of the Imperial regime in Japan.

US-led forces blasted this city into ruins with a fleet of long-range bombers, killing thousands in this city alone.

So yes, if the objective is to EXTERMINATE a country, US can pull it off in a short span - no ifs and buts.

---

Now what happened in Afghanistan?

US-led forces decimated the 'original Taliban government' in a span of 2 months tops at the start of the war - thousands of Taliban-affiliates perished during this time, and scores of survivors fled to Pakistan. Mullah Omar fled to his hometown and kept a low profile until his death.

Nevertheless, US is NOT trying to exterminate Afghanistan or even close - even Bush administration which is credited for decimating the 'original Taliban government' in the first two months of the war, had no intention to hunt Taliban to extinction. Americans only wanted to get rid of the Al-Qaeda affiliates in the region, and NATO succeeded in this endeavor by 2011, and pulled much of their forces from Afghanistan by 2014.

Taliban remnants regrouped within Afghanistan and Pakistan (Afghan refugee camps [4]), and SIMPLY WAITED for the bulk of US-led forces to EXIT from Afghanistan; resurgence commenced in 2015.

[4] Take a look: https://www.unhcr.org/publications/...orth-west-frontier-province-january-2008.html

Now Afghans are busy killing each other as usual, but a small contingent of US-led forces in Afghanistan are preventing the worst from happening. They are NOT trying to eradicate the resurgent Taliban but rather talking to them, to find a political resolution of the ongoing chapter of violence in Afghanistan, and to EXIT afterwards.

Taliban learned a lesson from their defeat at the hands of Bush administration, and played it smart since.

---

In summation:-

1. Every conflict is different with distinct political objectives set for it.

2. US - Pakistan war (God forbid) will be of entirely different character in comparison to what happened in Afghanistan. Would Pakistani nationals (numbering in crores) go to India, China and Iran, and WAIT for the bulk of American troops to be pulled from Pakistan?

BE SENSIBLE.

lols

i wonder why they couldnt destroy Taliban after dropping bombs for more than a decade!

See above.

I wonder why -- after the US debacle in Afghanistan -- did all the world's militaries not reformed themselves after the Taliban. After all, if the Taliban supposedly 'defeated' the US, surely that style of military is clearly 'proved' to be superior, right?

So when will you advocate the Pakistan military to get rid of ships, tanks, aircrafts, and uniforms?

Brilliant point.

Logic takes a back seat in these type of discussions sometimes.

Taliban had the luxury to transition from a VISIBLE FORCE to an ELUSIVE FORCE across Afghanistan and Pakistan, regrouped and waited for the bulk of US-led forces to EXIT from Afghanistan in 2014.

A professional army exist to safeguard borders and to fight another professional army (if necessary) - to prevent potential invasions from external entities. When this fails, then asymmetric pressures are applied on foreign occupants until they decide to leave. Even asymmetric pressures can fail sometimes such as in the case of Iraq even though Iraqi insurgents offered much greater level of resistance to US-led forces than Taliban in Afghanistan.

Mixed situation, or difference in level of commitments to a theater.

Pakistan had ships tanks fighter jets a nuclear freaking bomb and yet the greay general Mr Mushraf bowed down when USA threatened him! and Taliban stood firm had faith and defeated the enemy!

You know better then him, right?

VISIBLE FORCE, and what US can do about it, is the point. Economy is also a factor, full-scale war is not cheap.

There is a reason why Pervez Musharraf became COAS, and you did not.

Do you know what is speed of an ICBM?? greater than 25 mach when it reenters the atmosphere, We have the range, If USA was so much confident about its ABM system it would had attacked Russia by now, and Keep your missiles away from the direction in which Israel is otherwise the same Trident missile would roast your land to a burnt beacon, a nuclear buffer zone between Middle east and us....

A very good ICBM can approach 7 KM/sec mark in speed (MACH 20) during the midcourse phase of its flight but the re-entry vehicle begins to loose its speed during the course of its re-entry into the atmosphere due to the forces of friction.

India does not have any functional ICBM which can approach US mainland, at present.

American GMD network have demonstrated the capability to intercept ICBMs in complex live-fire events FYI.

FTG-15 event on May 30, 2017
FTG-11 event on May 25, 2019

Attacking Russia is not wise anytime soon; Russian nuclear arsenal is vast with a fleet of 300+ ICBMs. US will have to consider preemptive strikes and risk spreading radiation across the globe.

2, but we get your point. However, Serbia was far weaker than both India and Pakistan are today in comparison to the US.

Serbia had a professional military at the time, but NATO ruined it.

Not only that, but Syrian S-200s already managed to track and open fire upon an Israeli F-35 last year, temporarily bringing it out of service.

This is FALSE information.

One of the stealth choppers went down.

True.

Losses can be expected even in a well-planned military operation.

See my assessment of Dr. Hoodbhoy's remark: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/f-35...af-pervez-hoodboy.613519/page-8#post-11369035

I clearly DISAGREE with his view, and do not believe that F-35 is infallible. It is a machine - a cutting-edge machine - but a machine in the end, and human factor is still there.

However, some of the comments and utter-lack-of-judgement in this thread...

Same was said about Su30 MKI till a few days ago.

There is no comparison between Su-30 MKI and F-35 variants, period.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/f-35...af-pervez-hoodboy.613519/page-8#post-11368864

Indians are a bunch of idiots on average, bought into Russian hype. I have had discussions with them about the sheer hype they had created in regards to Su-30 MKI and I reminded that F-16 in PAF's inventory can defeat them in aerial engagements, but they didn't pay much attention.

WE should NOT be like Indians on the other hand - DELUSIONAL to the CORE, or perhaps PDF Indian crowd is like this. Because there are sane Indians out there.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown

OK - nobody said that machines are infallible.

However, take a look at this MONSTER.

50+ sorties over Serbia, and NO LOSS.

In one of the sorties, a B-2 Spirit took out the freaking Chinese embassy in Serbia and got away with it: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...-bomber-dropped-weapons-chinese-embassy-52312

In fact, numerous sorties around the world, and NO LOSS.

B-2 Spirit is the best VLO design in existence, it is VLO across all known BANDS and frequencies. The epitome of human engineering and ingenuity. Only the largely obscure RQ-180 is in this league. And US is now developing relatively superior B-21 Raider.

A single B-2 can level entire city blocks (if armed with conventional weapons), and entire provinces (if armed with nuclear weapons), and get away with it.

My point is to not generalize, and not to underestimate. There are very effective stealthy platforms out there.