F-22P a bad decision by PN?

[Guest]

175m for the a F22P is a bad decision definately, but the price tag of 053h3 is 80m, which included all the weapons and a Z9. so presumably, the price would be more or less the same with the F22Ps if PN wanted the ships only.

more importangly, the F22Ps have 2 major advantages compared with the perry class. firstly, the weapon systems are almost compatible with French counterparts. secondly, 0 cost for C3I informations form on shore or airborne platforms.

btw, if PN is willing to pay more for a better ship. 054As or 052Bs are also available, 220m and 300m respectively.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

more importangly, the F22Ps have 2 major advantages compared with the perry class. firstly, the weapon systems are almost compatible with French counterparts. secondly, 0 cost for C3I informations form on shore or airborne platforms.

F-22P has no decisive technical edge over OHP despite being more expensive other then non technical edge which is new frame and lower RCS for being a small frigate. PN has recently placed an order or in proses of receiving 50+ Harpoon block II SLAM which is by far the best AShM in the world.

 

[Arsalan]

no doubt in harpoon being in the top positions inn its category!!
the F22p will be using C803 which also seem to be real good, atleast as far specs on paper are concerned, the main disadvantage being not battle tested whereas the harpoons have been through a nice period of maturity!!

regards!

 

[wangrong]

---------------------
C803 almost sunk israel ship in labanon war.Its better then it expected.

no ,it is C-802

 

[Guest]

F-22P has no decisive technical edge over OHP despite being more expensive other then non technical edge which is new frame and lower RCS for being a small frigate. PN has recently placed an order or in proses of receiving 50+ Harpoon block II SLAM which is by far the best AShM in the world.

you just didn't get my point. all right let's make it simple.
can a US warship launch French missiles without being upgraded, which require permitions from both the countries, but the F22P can. you can change any radar or missile on the ship to French made ones whit no or limited upgrade to the ships. why? coz the protocols and interfaces are almost identical, and this was emphasised by the PN for servel dozen times.

i never said F22Ps are "decisive technical edge over OHP", but they have the potential to overwhelm OHP in a system combact. F22Ps can launch their 803s 200KMs away with the informations provided by the KJ200 or some on shore devices( you will know their names and delivery date later). at this range, the OHP, by himself, would not even konwn where the F22Ps are. and suppose it got warned by other means, it could not launch anything until it acquired the target informations by its own radars. bear this in mind: the earth is round, so the effective range of most radars, in detecting surfaces ships, is below 50KMs.

 

[Guest]

no ,it is C-802

no. to be more precisely, it was a Iranian copy of C802, of which the warhead weight was reduced to 50KGs.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

uffff...

you just didn't get my point. all right let's make it simple.
can a US warship launch French missiles without being upgraded, which require permitions from both the countries, but the F22P can. you can change any radar or missile on the ship to French made ones whit no or limited upgrade to the ships. why? coz the protocols and interfaces are almost identical, and this was emphasised by the PN for servel dozen times.

I highly dough you can integrate Exocet block III in F-22P without any upgrades. PN is way better off with Haproon block II which is by far the best AShM so why bother go one step behind? Never the less one should not under estimate Chinese and French AShM capabilities. and one should not select F-22P on base that it is capable of firing french exocet.

i never said F22Ps are "decisive technical edge over OHP", but they have the potential to overwhelm OHP in a system combact.

and you just said it

F22Ps can launch their 803s 200KMs away with the informations provided by the KJ200 or some on shore devices( you will know their names and delivery date later).

okay listen.. most of russian/soviet armaments have longer range then American weapons so does that mean they have a technical edge? At max range you can not utilize your weapons' full potential why because at longer distance your enemy will be aware of the threat and be prepared for counter measures. i dont think KJ200 is going to have much role in naval warfare context.

at this range, the OHP, by himself, would not even konwn where the F22Ps are. and suppose it got warned by other means, it could not launch anything until it acquired the target informations by its own radars. bear this in mind: the earth is round, so the effective range of most radars, in detecting surfaces ships, is below 50KMs.

alots of self contradictory in your own posts. i advice you to re read your own posts first.

 

[Guest]

uffff...



I highly dough you can integrate Exocet block III in F-22P without any upgrades. PN is way better off with Haproon block II which is by far the best AShM so why bother go one step behind? Never the less one should not under estimate Chinese and French AShM capabilities. and one should not select F-22P on base that it is capable of firing french exocet.


and you just said it

okay listen.. most of russian/soviet armaments have longer range then American weapons so does that mean they have a technical edge? At max range you can not utilize your weapons' full potential why because at longer distance your enemy will be aware of the threat and be prepared for counter measures. i dont think KJ200 is going to have much role in naval warfare context.


alots of self contradictory in your own posts. i advice you to re read your own posts first.

dude, can you provided something more concrete other than "i think" "i dough".

and you don't konw the differences between "being warned" and "being connected", do you.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

dude, can you provided something more concrete other than "i think" "i dough".

and you don't konw the differences between "being warned" and "being connected", do you.

being self contradictory? have you provided any credible information your self?
its just waist of exercise to prove that Harpoon is a superior AShM.

 

[Guest]

being self contradictory? have you provided any credible information your self?
its just waist of exercise to prove that Harpoon is a superior AShM.

all right, lets sum it up.
the topic of the thread is "Is F-22P a bad decision by PN? "
and my answer is NO, because
1) they are not the best but adequate,(2500tons,730,C803,HQ7...)
2) 4 out of 8 (or 1 in 4 for now)of them will be built by PN, which will improve the the capability to build major surface combattant in Pakistan;
3)the systems protocals and interfaces are compatible with the French's, 2 suppliers mean more reliable and in time supplyment during war time;
4)they have free access to the C3I informations from other platfroms, they can share everything with anybody;

next, you answers is YES, because
1)the ships are substandard; (base on what standard)
2)the ships are expensive; (so how much they cost exactly, ships only, excludeing the weapons, copters and the technology transfer expenditures)
3)the c803 is inferior. (except for longer range, faster, heavier warhead, anything else? )

so do waste a little exercise to enlighten me plz.

 

[Penguin]

you just didn't get my point. all right let's make it simple.
can a US warship launch French missiles without being upgraded, which require permitions from both the countries, but the F22P can. you can change any radar or missile on the ship to French made ones whit no or limited upgrade to the ships. why? coz the protocols and interfaces are almost identical, and this was emphasised by the PN for servel dozen times.

i never said F22Ps are "decisive technical edge over OHP", but they have the potential to overwhelm OHP in a system combact. F22Ps can launch their 803s 200KMs away with the informations provided by the KJ200 or some on shore devices( you will know their names and delivery date later). at this range, the OHP, by himself, would not even konwn where the F22Ps are. and suppose it got warned by other means, it could not launch anything until it acquired the target informations by its own radars. bear this in mind: the earth is round, so the effective range of most radars, in detecting surfaces ships, is below 50KMs.

PAF operates some 11 Crotale 2000/3000/4000 systems. The HQ7/FM80/FM90 is new to the PN inventory. These is no reason to assume the naval launcher and guidance unit are compatible with Crotale: the Chinese have made significant independent changes. Likewise, I see no reason to assume Exocet are interoperable with Chine AShMs. Plus, there is no real benefit: why would you want to fire frenh weapons from Chinese launchers?

The AN/SPS-49 serves as a primary air-search radar aboard numerous ships world wide, including Perry class. It is also serves in a complementary role aboard Aegis cruisers with the AN/SPY-1.
Range = 250 nmi (460 km)

 

[Myth_buster_1]

all right, lets sum it up.
the topic of the thread is "Is F-22P a bad decision by PN? "
and my answer is NO, because

hmm no. i say it has to do more with politic gains then technical and wont be surprised if kickbacks were used to bribe top officials.

1) they are not the best but adequate,(2500tons,730,C803,HQ7...)

in another words the bottom of the pyramid?
HQ7? and you know what IN is getting on their frigates? BARAK. heck even ESSM is way better then HQ7 which is bound to be installed in our OHP.

2) 4 out of 8 (or 1 in 4 for now)of them will be built by PN, which will improve the the capability to build major surface combattant in Pakistan;

we could have the same capability even with other frigates or even corvettes. in fact Milgem is more Superior even with lesser displacement and is totally new state of the art design with far more latest naval war fare capability. and they offer all this at additional 50 million dollars of F-22P cost. PN would be better off with spending additional 1.5 billion dollars on Milgem corvettes then F-22P.

3)the systems protocals and interfaces are compatible with the French's, 2 suppliers mean more reliable and in time supplyment during war time;

nope.. Penguin has summed it up well.

4)they have free access to the C3I informations from other platfroms, they can share everything with anybody;

as if other naval platforms of 21st century do not have this capability.

 

[Guest]

PAF operates some 11 Crotale 2000/3000/4000 systems. The HQ7/FM80/FM90 is new to the PN inventory. These is no reason to assume the naval launcher and guidance unit are compatible with Crotale: the Chinese have made significant independent changes. Likewise, I see no reason to assume Exocet are interoperable with Chine AShMs. Plus, there is no real benefit: why would you want to fire frenh weapons from Chinese launchers?

The AN/SPS-49 serves as a primary air-search radar aboard numerous ships world wide, including Perry class. It is also serves in a complementary role aboard Aegis cruisers with the AN/SPY-1.
Range = 250 nmi (460 km)

HQ7s and C803s are all originated from the French, so the interfaces and protocols were settled down many decates before. The French may have made some improvement of them but they will never changed them completely and neither will the chinese. about what benefits? who konws, we just did it by your request. or maybe PN is going to import some French weapons but not ships.

250nmi for aircrafts, not for vessels. there is a huge difference between looking up and looking down. the ships 50KMs aways would be several dozen or even several hundred meters below horizon coz the earth is round.

 

[Guest]

in another words the bottom of the pyramid?
HQ7? and you know what IN is getting on their frigates? BARAK. heck even ESSM is way better then HQ7 which is bound to be installed in our OHP.

oh, first C803,and then HQ7. how well do you konw about HQ7s, do some researh first plz.

we could have the same capability even with other frigates or even corvettes. in fact Milgem is more Superior even with lesser displacement and is totally new state of the art design with far more latest naval war fare capability. and they offer all this at additional 50 million dollars of F-22P cost. PN would be better off with spending additional 1.5 billion dollars on Milgem corvettes then F-22P.

maybe u r ringht at the "capability", the question is when.
but the 1.5 billion dollars can not be verified, r u sure the next upgraded 4 F22Ps cost 750 million dollars.

as if other naval platforms of 21st century do not have this capability.

of course you can have this capability, but not for free. not after you buy the US made AWACs and the on shore communication equipments.


btw, what about your arguments, giving them up?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

first of all bro no hard fellings.. i have nothing against china.

oh, first C803,and then HQ7. how well do you konw about HQ7s, do some researh first plz.

HQ7 is a chinese variant of French Crotale which they acquired in 1980s.

maybe u r ringht at the "capability", the question is when.
but the 1.5 billion dollars can not be verified, r u sure the next upgraded 4 F22Ps cost 750 million dollars.

first 4 F-22P with 2500 tonne displacement costs 750 million dollars, the next 4 are assumed to be 3,000 tonne class with better features so i am guessing the price could be more then 750.


at the end of the day.. is this deal worth it? i mean we are getting state of the art latest non-nuclear submarines from germany the Type-214 at 1.5 billion dollars.. and yes both submarine and frigates have different roles. but let me tell you given the task to inflict damage on Indian navy i bet you 3 Type-214 will be much much more lethal then 8 F-22P.