F-16IN to make a comeback in MMRCA-II

[anant_s]

I suppose one of the biggest lesson from all this circus that hopefully is learnt, that unless you act fast, things will never get sorted out.
The whole thing started as replacement of MiG 21s, then got converted to replacement of MiG 27 and Jaguars as well. In the meantime, bureaucracy thought why not make it open for all (good intentions but really bad on execution part), have a competition. IAF obliged and did their part in time only to find successive governments sitting on file and later finding that they are in a situation where there is no solution. To muddle the waters further, claims of LCA coming in, Russians pressing for additional Sukhois, other European and American contractors offering deals and not to mention nobody ready to take a decision.
If someone could write a book on all this, it would be titled HOW NOT TO PROCURE MILITARY HARDWARE: A HANDBOOK.

 

[SrNair]

There is no MMRCA2.
And we wont buy F 16.You already mentioned one reason.
And we cant trust US.

Then how many types of fighter fleets will the Indian AF operate? How will they standardize their AF? How can it share tactical information/data with Su-30 MKI or PAKFA? Irrelevant and harmful to maintain, support.

 

[rockstarIN]

Then how many types of fighter fleets will the Indian AF operate? How will they standardize their AF? How can it share tactical information/data with Su-30 MKI or PAKFA? Irrelevant and harmful to maintain, support.

Then how many types of fighter fleets will the Indian AF operate?
Very difficult, logistics are nightmare!
How will they standardize their AF?
All the new acquisitions will have common equipments in critical areas, likeBVR(Astra), OBOGS, IFF, MEWS, Avionics, communication etc.
How can it share tactical information/data with Su-30 MKI or PAKFA?
Data connection in all IAF/IN air crafts including AWACS is of Indian origin.

 

[[Bregs]]

India will never buy such a critical front line aircraft from US

 

[GURU DUTT]

India will never buy such a critical front line aircraft from US

thats right its just another pressure tactics by dassault guys to spread confusion and speed up ther process but if ever there will be a US fighter in IAF then it will be either F/A-18 E/F advanced super hornet or F-35 rest all are just not worth it

 

[Viper0011.]

Rafale is going to be bought. If france behaves itself maybe well buy more than 36.

The French are the manufacturer and they don't negotiate the Indian way. You are asking them to:
1) Reduce cost per unit by millions
2) Allow India to integrate other missiles and weapons, which means the'll have to give you access and some TOT. They don't want to.
3) You want them to follow Offsetting laws of India and manufacture or assemble majority of these inside India. Which they don't want to as they'll be late in delivery and will be penalized.

So WHY should a manufacturer should sell you these advanced jets, open the modifications and also take the risk!!!! The French program officer has already provided a report back saying this deal might now go through as of yesterday. This is simply too much being asked by India and they can't take a loss or higher than normal risk.

 

[[Bregs]]

thats right its just another pressure tactics by dassault guys to spread confusion and speed up ther process but if ever there will be a US fighter in IAF then it will be either F/A-18 E/F advanced super hornet or F-35 rest all are just not worth it

Lol i again feel that this can turn out to be diplomatic blunder is India allowed US to set up shop for front line aircraft. Need to think twice

although F/A 18E/F and F35 are options worth considering but only after weighing all pros and cons

The French are the manufacturer and they don't negotiate the Indian way. You are asking them to:
1) Reduce cost per unit by millions
2) Allow India to integrate other missiles and weapons, which means the'll have to give you access and some TOT. They don't want to.
3) You want them to follow Offsetting laws of India and manufacture or assemble majority of these inside India. Which they don't want to as they'll be late in delivery and will be penalized.

So WHY should a manufacturer should sell you these advanced jets, open the modifications and also take the risk!!!! The French program officer has already provided a report back saying this deal might now go through as of yesterday. This is simply too much being asked by India and they can't take a loss or higher than normal risk.

Off set clause doesn't mean they have to invest back minimum 30% of money in Rafale related project alone, this amount can be invested in defense related equipment in India

 

[GURU DUTT]

Lol i again feel that this can turn out to be diplomatic blunder is India allowed US to set up shop for front line aircraft. Need to think twice

although F/A 18E/F and F35 are options worth considering but only after weighing all pros and cons

thats why i said its all a confusion campain spreead by dassault

 

[Viper0011.]

Off set clause doesn't mean they have to invest back minimum 30% of money in Rafale related project alone, this amount can be invested in defense related equipment in India

India wants them to use that money for future customization or setting up a JV for future Indian weapons integration. And they don't want to and I don't blame them. I don't want anyone touching my Ferrari, even a customer, asking me rights to modify the tech, engine and suspension in it...

 

[[Bregs]]

thats why i said its all a confusion campain spreead by dassault

But bro asking 200m $ per aircraft even if we consider India asking for couple of changes is too much.

 

[GURU DUTT]

But bro asking 200m $ per aircraft even if we consider India asking for couple of changes is too much.

first of all 200 millon $$s are life time tarining , running and maitainence costs without wepons pakage and frenchies are right they as of now cant integrate astra BVR on rafales as astra is not yet ready

 

[[Bregs]]

India wants them to use that money for future customization or setting up a JV for future Indian weapons integration. And they don't want to and I don't blame them. I don't want anyone touching my Ferrari, even a customer, asking me rights to modify the tech, engine and suspension in it...

There has been this off set options in various deals all over world and the french agreed for this offset clause in M2K up-gradation too

Two upgraded Mirage 2000 handed over to India in France - timesofindia-economictimes

first of all 200 millon $$s are life time tarining , running and maitainence costs without wepons pakage and frenchies are right they as of now cant integrate astra BVR on rafales as astra is not yet ready

Looks like all these news o talks stuck or France not ready to budge are part of some conspiracy by partisan media, although this is complicated big deal and is taking time but by september i feel deal is signed

 

[GURU DUTT]

There has been this off set options in various deals all over world and the french agreed for this offset clause in M2K up-gradation too

Two upgraded Mirage 2000 handed over to India in France - timesofindia-economictimes




Looks like all these news o talks stuck or France not ready to budge are part of some conspiracy by partisan media, although this is complicated big deal and is taking time but by september i feel deal is signed

actualli the main part taking time is regarding cost calculations for spares and training equipment cause these 36 rafales will be fully built in france and the probl;em right now is about the nagociation or terms of seting up a new manufacturing facilty of dassult here in india and it will take time

 

[Beast]

Rafale is going to be bought. If france behaves itself maybe well buy more than 36.

Looks more like Indian need to behave itself before they can get their Rafale. The French can even forsake the mistral LHD deal at a loss. What's makes you think indian is at a upper end.

 

[[Bregs]]

actualli the main part taking time is regarding cost calculations for spares and training equipment cause these 36 rafales will be fully built in france and the probl;em right now is about the nagociation or terms of seting up a new manufacturing facilty of dassult here in india and it will take time

Bro the offset deal can be fulfilled by MICA or thales too both are ancillary units to dassault