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F-16 obsession ....... this is why

ebrahym

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RAF Eurofighter Typhoons ‘beaten by Pakistani F-16s
July 2, 2016 | admin




Pakistani pilots flying modernized versions of the 1970s-vintage F-16 Falcon fighter have beaten the RAF’s brand-new Euro fighter Typhoon super fighters during air combat exercises in Turkey, according to a Pakistani officer.

This interview with an unnamed but evidently experienced Pakistani Air Force (PAF) F-16 pilot on exchange with the Turkish air force, posted on the official site of the PAF display team, includes the following intriguing passage. (Hat tip to the excellent DEW Line blog for flagging this up.)

Q: Any memorable experiences that you would like to share?A: On one occasion – in one of the international Anatolian Eagles – PAF pilots were pitted against RAF Typhoons, a formidable aircraft. There were three set-ups and in all three, we shot down the Typhoons. The RAF pilots were shocked.

Q: Any particular reason for your success?

A: NATO pilots are not that proficient in close-in air-to-air combat. They are trained for BVR [Beyond Visual Range] engagements and their tactics are based on BVR engagements. These were close-in air combat exercises and we had the upper hand because close-in air combat is drilled into every PAF pilot and this is something we are very good at.

The Anatolian Eagle air-combat exercises are hosted by the Turkish air force and would have seen Pakistani pilots on exchange with the Turks flying modernized Turkish “Block 50” F-16s, a much-upgraded version of the original US made 1970s Fighting Falcon, which is now in service with many air forces and assembled under licence in various countries including Turkey
 
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with AWACS and AEWCs making way into S.Asia in big numbers, the number of BVR engagements will grow much more. WVR combats maybe reduced to few and far between. but if the fighters are taken out before they can engage bogeys WVR, then what use being very good at it?

this is still kudos to the pilots for beating more capable systems, but BVR is the logical evolution at this point in my opinion.
 
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A self satisfactory statement ... even if they performed good then it was against some performance criteria ... every aircraft has its plus and minus ... even in some specific third generation f7pgs can come on top of typhoons but can this be converted into victory in a real scenario ???

In a real scenario typhoon will not allow to get into wvr combat as it is the weak spot of the aircraft in comparison to f16s ... even if bvr range missile miss the target tphoons will be in much better to engage f16 at wvr range as f16s while busy in saving their a** from bvr missile typhoon can come to comfortable position to engage in wvr combat ...

So stop this non sense chest thumping and try to get some decent machine for our pilots which can give them atleast qual fighting chance in all scenarios against rafaels ...


RAF Eurofighter Typhoons ‘beaten by Pakistani F-16s
July 2, 2016 | admin




Pakistani pilots flying modernized versions of the 1970s-vintage F-16 Falcon fighter have beaten the RAF’s brand-new Euro fighter Typhoon super fighters during air combat exercises in Turkey, according to a Pakistani officer.

This interview with an unnamed but evidently experienced Pakistani Air Force (PAF) F-16 pilot on exchange with the Turkish air force, posted on the official site of the PAF display team, includes the following intriguing passage. (Hat tip to the excellent DEW Line blog for flagging this up.)

Q: Any memorable experiences that you would like to share?A: On one occasion – in one of the international Anatolian Eagles – PAF pilots were pitted against RAF Typhoons, a formidable aircraft. There were three set-ups and in all three, we shot down the Typhoons. The RAF pilots were shocked.

Q: Any particular reason for your success?

A: NATO pilots are not that proficient in close-in air-to-air combat. They are trained for BVR [Beyond Visual Range] engagements and their tactics are based on BVR engagements. These were close-in air combat exercises and we had the upper hand because close-in air combat is drilled into every PAF pilot and this is something we are very good at.

The Anatolian Eagle air-combat exercises are hosted by the Turkish air force and would have seen Pakistani pilots on exchange with the Turks flying modernized Turkish “Block 50” F-16s, a much-upgraded version of the original US made 1970s Fighting Falcon, which is now in service with many air forces and assembled under licence in various countries including Turkey
 
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with AWACS and AEWCs making way into S.Asia in big numbers, the number of BVR engagements will grow much more. WVR combats maybe reduced to few and far between. but if the fighters are taken out before they can engage bogeys WVR, then what use being very good at it?

this is still kudos to the pilots for beating more capable systems, but BVR is the logical evolution at this point in my opinion.
DACT WVR is still important and practiced.
 
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A self satisfactory statement ... even if they performed good then it was against some performance criteria ... every aircraft has its plus and minus ... even in some specific third generation f7pgs can come on top of typhoons but can this be converted into victory in a real scenario ???

In a real scenario typhoon will not allow to get into wvr combat as it is the weak spot of the aircraft in comparison to f16s ... even if bvr range missile miss the target tphoons will be in much better to engage f16 at wvr range as f16s while busy in saving their a** from bvr missile typhoon can come to comfortable position to engage in wvr combat ...

So stop this non sense chest thumping and try to get some decent machine for our pilots which can give them atleast qual fighting chance in all scenarios against rafaels ...

been in a dogfight?
 
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BVR kill ratios is like 1 in 4 chance ie 25% kill probability at 50km +

At 25 km this improves to 50%

At 10km you are in WVR territory ie DOG FIGHT

In theory F16 & F7 can win DOG FIGHT

But the Typhoons Rafales even mki have better chance of success
 
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BVR kill ratios is like 1 in 4 chance ie 25% kill probability at 50km +

At 25 km this improves to 50%

At 10km you are in WVR territory ie DOG FIGHT

In theory F16 & F7 can win DOG FIGHT

But the Typhoons Rafales even mki have better chance of success

pilot becomes important at close range
 
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A self satisfactory statement ... even if they performed good then it was against some performance criteria ... every aircraft has its plus and minus ... even in some specific third generation f7pgs can come on top of typhoons but can this be converted into victory in a real scenario ???

In a real scenario typhoon will not allow to get into wvr combat as it is the weak spot of the aircraft in comparison to f16s ... even if bvr range missile miss the target tphoons will be in much better to engage f16 at wvr range as f16s while busy in saving their a** from bvr missile typhoon can come to comfortable position to engage in wvr combat ...

So stop this non sense chest thumping and try to get some decent machine for our pilots which can give them atleast qual fighting chance in all scenarios against rafaels ...
in real scenario Pakistani f-16s and jf-17s are to be accompanied by AWACS which just makes our odd better

BVR kill ratios is like 1 in 4 chance ie 25% kill probability at 50km +

At 25 km this improves to 50%

At 10km you are in WVR territory ie DOG FIGHT

In theory F16 & F7 can win DOG FIGHT

But the Typhoons Rafales even mki have better chance of success
BVR is more modren approach and has not yet been tested successfully apart from Iraqi invasion where many kills were BVR ..... interception is still gonna be WVR .......

according to a Pakistani officer. This interview with an unnamed but evidently experienced Pakistani Air Force (PAF) F-16 pilot .. wow ! soon they will beat F 22!
sir you need to click on this bold green interview and it will direct you to the source which will further enlighten you about the post
 
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with AWACS and AEWCs making way into S.Asia in big numbers, the number of BVR engagements will grow much more. WVR combats maybe reduced to few and far between. but if the fighters are taken out before they can engage bogeys WVR, then what use being very good at it?

this is still kudos to the pilots for beating more capable systems, but BVR is the logical evolution at this point in my opinion.
you are certainly right
but as i said BVR is not properly tested on active field yet ........ Against Iraq they were succesfull but that cannot yet change the whole game

The efficacy of BVR air-to-air missiles has been criticized. The increased success rate of BVR combat during Operation Desert Storm may have significantly depended on other factors, such as assistance of AWACS, NCTR system of F-15Cs, as well as enemy incompetence.
Beyond-visual-range missile - Wikipedia
 
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Let's be honest - if we had the choice between F16s and Typhoons, what would the PAF take?
of course F-16s as they come in block 52+ and in Coalition Support Fund ....... typhoon is expensive and will need new infrastructure ...... which we can not afford

No we try to beat F22 but heard from the F22 pilot that some Tejas nami maklook behind the hanuman pilot beat 4X F22 at a time... ooo behns
Pakistani F-7 have actually participated in escorting and interception missions with F-22
PAF f7 escorting f22
 
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in real scenario Pakistani f-16s and jf-17s are to be accompanied by AWACS which just makes our odd better


BVR is more modren approach and has not yet been tested successfully apart from Iraqi invasion where many kills were BVR ..... interception is still gonna be WVR .......


sir you need to click on this bold green interview and it will direct you to the source which will further enlighten you about the post

But sir do we want to leave this on chances ??? This is something very critical ... in a war if you want to enhiliate a country and not to capture you just need to have air superirority and then you can bomb their navy army quite at ease ... so strenghthening of air defense should be our first priority but apparently we are still living in 65 where primary weapon of aircraft was his gun and pilot skills mattered alot but in current scenario pilot is just manager of different sub systems of aircraft and more job is to be done by sub systems ...

been in a dogfight?
No suerly not but have read enough to understand the wars happening around technologies being adopted ...

By the definition of OP we should not even go for BVR missiles and should just keep on working our strength of WVR engagements ... is that what you are suggesting ?
 
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But sir do we want to leave this on chances ??? This is something very critical ... in a war if you want to enhiliate a country and not to capture you just need to have air superirority and then you can bomb their navy army quite at ease ... so strenghthening of air defense should be our first priority but apparently we are still living in 65 where primary weapon of aircraft was his gun and pilot skills mattered alot but in current scenario pilot is just manager of different sub systems of aircraft and more job is to be done by sub systems ...


No suerly not but have read enough to understand the wars happening around technologies being adopted ...

By the definition of OP we should not even go for BVR missiles and should just keep on working our strength of WVR engagements ... is that what you are suggesting ?

BVR is the way forward but we must also ensure that pilots are expert is close combat. its is possible for older highly agile aircraft to take on and even beat modern aircraft. but these are just exercises and not real war
 
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