F-16 obsession ....... this is why

[ebrahym]

Sir if you are satisfies with the current aircraft inventory vs india then no one can argue with you based on knowledge

actually no
even PAF is not satisfied with current inventory
but problem is money
we dont have it we have to make most of it
and yes we are most satisfied with PAF spending it efficiently on AWACS , thunders and vipers instead of getting ahead of themselves and over-stretching themselves
what we must do is create a fifth generation airforce rather than fifth gen aircraft

 

[The Accountant]

actually no
even PAF is not satisfied with current inventory
but problem is money
we dont have it we have to make most of it
and yes we are most satisfied with PAF spending it efficiently on AWACS , thunders and vipers instead of getting ahead of themselves and over-stretching themselves
what we must do is create a fifth generation airforce rather than fifth gen aircraft

Sir then stop publicizing than thunders and vipers are enough ... they are not we all agree ... and threads like this ...PAF obsession with F16 give the wrong message that PAF is stuck with f16 due to its performance ... fact is we are stuck due to funds and f16 is already becoming obsolete in terms of threats we have ... f16s are no match to rafaels ... whereas against mkis they are too low in numbers

 

[ebrahym]

Sir then stop publicizing than thunders and vipers are enough ... they are not we all agree ... and threads like this ...PAF obsession with F16 give the wrong message that PAF is stuck with f16 due to its performance ... fact is we are stuck due to funds and f16 is already becoming obsolete in terms of threats we have ... f16s are no match to rafaels ... whereas against mkis they are too low in numbers

are you crazy
f-16s not enough?
we are stuck with thunders while we want vipers
USAF is replacing some f-15 squadrons with upgraded f-16s
f-16 even in the face of 5th gen zenith will not be obsolete
and yes mkis and rafaels?
new batches of f-16 and mlu's are enough
there is a difference between an Indian in MKI and rafael and a Pakistani in f-16
trust me if we would be given options between typhoon , rafael , su-35 , or any other non 5th gen aircraft and f-16
PAF would choose f-16 every single time
our pilots blood group is f-16 blk 52+
its the thunders we have to make do with and after the third blk even they will be as good as blk 52+ vipers(however i am unable to confirm the details of new thunder yet but i assure you it will be introduced by the end of this year most probably September as there are some airshows at that time of the year)

the next aircraft PAF would go after will be fifth-gen
there is no chance we will buy another 4th gen aircraft
and even that acquisition is scheduled for 5 years later by the closest guess

 

[The Accountant]

are you crazy
f-16s not enough?
we are stuck with thunders while we want vipers
USAF is replacing some f-15 squadrons with upgraded f-16s
f-16 even in the face of 5th gen zenith will not be obsolete
and yes mkis and rafaels?
new batches of f-16 and mlu's are enough
there is a difference between an Indian in MKI and rafael and a Pakistani in f-16
trust me if we would be given options between typhoon , rafael , su-35 , or any other non 5th gen aircraft and f-16
PAF would choose f-16 every single time
our pilots blood group is f-16 blk 52+
its the thunders we have to make do with and after the third blk even they will be as good as blk 52+ vipers(however i am unable to confirm the details of new thunder yet but i assure you it will be introduced by the end of this year most probably September as there are some airshows at that time of the year)

the next aircraft PAF would go after will be fifth-gen
there is no chance we will buy another 4th gen aircraft
and even that acquisition is scheduled for 5 years later by the closest guess

I really doubt your knowledge on fighter aircarfts ... Can you put some facts based on which you think our F16s are even on Par with Rafael ... One is IRST, AESA, HMD/S equipped and F16 has none of this while our F16s are not equipped with AIM9X and latest AMRAAM whereas Rafaels are for sure have better WVR and BVR missiles ...

On MKIs I agree that F16 blk 52 has little edge but how many blk 52 we have 18 + some 30 MLU near blk 52 standards ... and you are putting these 50 birds in front of 230 MKIs ... this little edge will be blown in matter of couple of days by putting numbers ...

You fan boys of f16 ... can't you think rationally ???

 

[ebrahym]

I really doubt your knowledge on fighter aircarfts ... Can you put some facts based on which you think our F16s are even on Par with Rafael ... One is IRST, AESA, HMD/S equipped and F16 has none of this while our F16s are not equipped with AIM9X and latest AMRAAM whereas Rafaels are for sure have better WVR and BVR missiles ...

On MKIs I agree that F16 blk 52 has little edge but how many blk 52 we have 18 + some 30 MLU near blk 52 standards ... and you are putting these 50 birds in front of 230 MKIs ... this little edge will be blown in matter of couple of days by putting numbers ...

You fan boys of f16 ... can't you think rationally ???

sir you are really starting to annoy me
aircrafts are defined by the roles they are put in
in our case we are defensive and prime role would be interception
As for air superiority India will enjoy it
but just not inside our borders
we here in Islamabad dont want to dominate the whole air scenario of the world
we can not match a bird by bird with India
its called working smart by the funds available
if you would have thought rationally , you would have realized PAF posture
next please take into consideration my signature before quoting
nice to talk to you

 

[The Accountant]

sir you are really starting to annoy me
aircrafts are defined by the roles they are put in
in our case we are defensive and prime role would be interception
As for air superiority India will enjoy it
but just not inside our borders
we here in Islamabad dont want to dominate the whole air scenario of the world
we can not match a bird by bird with India
its called working smart by the funds available
if you would have thought rationally , you would have realized PAF posture
next please take into consideration my signature before quoting
nice to talk to you

Listen when did you find my posts without referrence to the fact ???

Brother this whole phychy of defensive force is share stupidity ... tell this to the slodiers fighting right at the border and will be roasted by indian aircrafts through stand off munitions while flying 30 to 40 kms within their border and when the same thing will be tried by our fighter we will be engaged by BVR missiles of supperrior rafael and higher no of mkis mirrages and fulcrums ... we need much more fighters in quality and numbers ... money is a separate matter ... based on shortage of money you cant say that my requirements are met ...

 

[Mugwop]

10 typhoons are almost 1% of Pakistan's gdp.
There is a twin engine policy also.

indians have trained with the singapore airforce which means they know alot about F-16 blk 52
Our relations with the US also impacts the bird.

Btw it was the italian typhoons that the PAF beat afaik. Still pretty impressive

 

[CriticalThought]

10 typhoons are almost 1% of Pakistan's gdp.
There is a twin engine policy also.

indians have trained with the singapore airforce which means they know alot about F-16 blk 52
Our relations with the US also impacts the bird.

Btw it was the italian typhoons that the PAF beat afaik. Still pretty impressive

If we absolutely needed Typhoons to defend the homeland, they would be made available, by hook or by crook. Most people fretting over India's advantage have no clue about aerial warfare and how to tackle the various threats. All it takes is some Indian troll to come online and rattle off a list of features that aren't even relevant to winning a dog fight, and a list of problems with the Thunder that are non-existent in reality, and less than informed Pakistanis start yelping for the in vogue dream list, comprising at various times: J-10, Su-35, and of course EFT. It doesn't help that people who are mental slaves to American greatness are seen as venerable seniors and their every word treated as gospel. Hence an environment of dejection and hopelessness. Thankfully, lately some people have started to question this online congregational self-flagellation.

 

[The Accountant]

If we absolutely needed Typhoons to defend the homeland, they would be made available, by hook or by crook. Most people fretting over India's advantage have no clue about aerial warfare and how to tackle the various threats. All it takes is some Indian troll to come online and rattle off a list of features that aren't even relevant to winning a dog fight, and a list of problems with the Thunder that are non-existent in reality, and less than informed Pakistanis start yelping for the in vogue dream list, comprising at various times: J-10, Su-35, and of course EFT. It doesn't help that people who are mental slaves to American greatness are seen as venerable seniors and their every word treated as gospel. Hence an environment of dejection and hopelessness. Thankfully, lately some people have started to question this online congregational self-flagellation.

Facts states otherwise bro ... we need an air superirotiy ffighter which can inside enemy's territory ... thunder is exceptional fighter but is a light weight and cannot be used as aggressor or air superiority role ...

 

[ebrahym]

Listen when did you find my posts without referrence to the fact ???

Brother this whole phychy of defensive force is share stupidity ... tell this to the slodiers fighting right at the border and will be roasted by indian aircrafts through stand off munitions while flying 30 to 40 kms within their border and when the same thing will be tried by our fighter we will be engaged by BVR missiles of supperrior rafael and higher no of mkis mirrages and fulcrums ... we need much more fighters in quality and numbers ... money is a separate matter ... based on shortage of money you cant say that my requirements are met ...

nice to have your opinion sir
hope you have a great day
P.S pakistan's military doctrine is not defensive
its offensive-defense
or more specifically rapid response

its our military posture thats defensive

nevertheless great to have your opinion
hope to hear from you soon
(on some other thread maybe)

thunder is exceptional fighter but is a light weight and cannot be used as aggressor or air superiority role

seriously??????
gripen?
F-16?
J-10?
mirage-2000?

seriously?

sorry to respond but this was way too dumb

P.S
Viper is used by USAF for strike missions as well
inside enemy territory as seen in Iraq war

indians have trained with the singapore airforce which means they know alot about F-16 blk 52

Pakistan trains with chinese and china have a way bigger flanker stockpile including Su-30 in MKK configuration
every countries tactics are different and we are playing with vipers for almost 40 years now

 

[CriticalThought]

nice to have your opinion sir
hope you have a great day
P.S pakistan's military doctrine is not defensive
its offensive-defense
or more specifically rapid response

its our military posture thats defensive

nevertheless great to have your opinion
hope to hear from you soon
(on some other thread maybe)


seriously??????
gripen?
F-16?
J-10?
mirage-2000?

seriously?

sorry to respond but this was way too dumb

P.S
Viper is used by USAF for strike missions as well
inside enemy territory as seen in Iraq war


Pakistan trains with chinese and china have a way bigger flanker stockpile including Su-30 in MKK configuration
every countries tactics are different and we are playing with vipers for almost 40 years now

Not only that, we have actual kills against Russian fighters flown by Russian pilots in Afghanistan, we train with Turkey who has actual kill against Russian fighter flown by Russian pilot. In the mid 2000 the Turks lost two vipers in two separate incidents against Greek M2Ks and still they love their vipers. And that's because they have onboarded the lessons from those kills and our vioers are upgraded by the Turks. I would profess undying love for the viper but the reality is we need to wean ourselves away from dependence and bring the Thunder to a level where it's better than even Block 70+.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

A perfect example.
So while we still have every reason to cherish and celebrate that glorious past (or our command against EFT in dog fights) we need to prepare the new challenges of modern game to stay relevant (the BVR combat)

Plus it is inevitable that getting too close to another fighter jet will simply not be an option.

It is only a matter of time before laser dazzlers and beam weapons appear on fighter jets for close in attacks. It will all be automatic. You get close and a computer AI controlled dazzler hits your cockpit blinding you and then another simple beam hits the glass compromising its integrity. You'll be screwed quick.

 

[CriticalThought]

Plus it is inevitable that getting too close to another fighter jet will simply not be an option.

It is only a matter of time before laser dazzlers and beam weapons appear on fighter jets for close in attacks. It will all be automatic. You get close and a computer AI controlled dazzler hits your cockpit blinding you and then another simple beam hits the glass compromising its integrity. You'll be screwed quick.

I'd wait for these to actually become operational. You don't strategize based on technology that's 20 years in the future.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I'd wait for these to actually become operational. You don't strategize based on technology that's 20 years in the future.

Dazzlers were first used in 1982 during the Falkand's War by the British.

US military uses them already. Putting them on a fighter jet is no biggie.

Laser weapons are coming too:
US Air Force to test laser weapons for supersonic fighter jets in 2019http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...r-Dominance-fighters-use-radical-weapons.html