F-16 obsession ....... this is why

[The Accountant]

that is the thing in AWACS my friend ....... even AWACS and RADARS and ground defence forces use tactics ........... e.g downing of night hawk in serbia was not an accomplishment of RADAR but of commander using it ..... technology does not guarantee kill ....... BVR missiles can be out maneuvered and even be targeted by infrared homing dogfighting missiles are by canons although there has not be an example yet and i doubt anyone is trying so but in theory it is possible ............................

in the end tech matters but the tactics matter most ...
as for aerial scenario
we never hit a stop gap even during 90s we maintained operational capability by Project ROSE
we dont need overly expensive techs which we can neither appropriately operate nor can maintain
what we need is just the kick nothing more and nothing less and we do have it

Sir i would like to disagree respectfully ... there are 2 methods ... either you put quantity or quality ... unfortunately we are putting neither of them ... we do need a platform whi can outperform rafael ...

 

[CriticalThought]

Sir i would like to disagree respectfully ... there are 2 methods ... either you put quantity or quality ... unfortunately we are putting neither of them ... we do need a platform whi can outperform rafael ...

Outperform in what area?

 

[The Accountant]

Air superiority in general ... specifics radar ew suite, avionics, bvr missile, high off bore sight wvr missiles data fusion capabilities

Outperform in what area?

 

[CriticalThought]

Air superiority in general ... specifics radar ew suite, avionics, bvr missile, high off bore sight wvr missiles data fusion capabilities

But Radar, EW, Avionics, BVR missiles, high off bore sight wvr and data fusion are features that can be implemented on any platform... including the JF-17 Thunder. Why do you need an entirely new platform for this?

 

[The Accountant]

When did i say new platform ... i said platform which can outmanover rafael ...

We cannot put all these goodies on thunder ... we know that it was never meant to be air superirority fighter ... it has air frame limitations ... small air frame small engine and hence can take less ammunitions .. less liiter time ... smaller less powerful radar and ew suite ... that simply dont suite the requirement .. although with all such capability it will be an excellent and more capable air defence fighter interceptor and second tier fighter ...

But Radar, EW, Avionics, BVR missiles, high off bore sight wvr and data fusion are features that can be implemented on any platform... including the JF-17 Thunder. Why do you need an entirely new platform for this?

 

[CriticalThought]

When did i say new platform ... i said platform which can outmanover rafael ...

We cannot put all these goodies on thunder ... we know that it was never meant to be air superirority fighter ... it has air frame limitations ... small air frame small engine and hence can take less ammunitions .. less liiter time ... smaller less powerful radar and ew suite ... that simply dont suite the requirement .. although with all such capability it will be an excellent and more capable air defence fighter interceptor and second tier fighter ...

Block 3+ will Insha Allah have better engine, more power, bigger nose, more payload... in short all the criticism should be addressed. Also, payload can be offset simply by numbers.

We need latest gen missiles and EW suit though. This is the area on which we need to do double time.

 

[The Accountant]

Block 3+ will Insha Allah have better engine, more power, bigger nose, more payload... in short all the criticism should be addressed. Also, payload can be offset simply by numbers.

We need latest gen missiles and EW suit though. This is the area on which we need to do double time.

If it can house powerful radar, EW suite, irst, atleast 4 bvr missiles ... hmd/s fifth generation wvr missiles with numbers than probably rafael but still you need another high potential fighter ... f16 is not reliable now and sanction prone

 

[CriticalThought]

If it can house powerful radar, EW suite, irst, atleast 4 bvr missiles ... hmd/s fifth generation wvr missiles with numbers than probably rafael but still you need another high potential fighter ... f16 is not reliable now and sanction prone

The standard config is 2 BVR + 2 WVR. It makes a lot of sense in terms of load distribution and balancing payload with agility and manoeuvrability. Do you really think the Rafale loaded with missiles is a very good idea? Yes, it has radar jamming and EM Suppression capabilities, but against Pakistani AWACS, all those externally mounted missiles will brighten up the radar screen. Numbers are better in this case than payload. So why exactly do we need an aggressor aircraft? Note that the role of stealth fighters is not that of aggressor. They don't challenge the enemy head to head, don't do a merge, and don't form a furball. So why do we need another fighter?

 

[The Accountant]

The standard config is 2 BVR + 2 WVR. It makes a lot of sense in terms of load distribution and balancing payload with agility and manoeuvrability. Do you really think the Rafale loaded with missiles is a very good idea? Yes, it has radar jamming and EM Suppression capabilities, but against Pakistani AWACS, all those externally mounted missiles will brighten up the radar screen. Numbers are better in this case than payload. So why exactly do we need an aggressor aircraft? Note that the role of stealth fighters is not that of aggressor. They don't challenge the enemy head to head, don't do a merge, and don't form a furball. So why do we need another fighter?

coz in fight you cant just depand on single fighter as it will make enemy's job easy ...

 

[ebrahym]

Sir i would like to disagree respectfully ... there are 2 methods ... either you put quantity or quality ... unfortunately we are putting neither of them ... we do need a platform whi can outperform rafael ...

we are adding both
AWACS for quality and thunders for quantity
P.S thunders have data link

 

[The Accountant]

we are adding both
AWACS for quality and thunders for quantity
P.S thunders have data link

Sir you are saying like AWACS are something out of the world ... Our adversary has the same ... Furthermore we don't know yet the capabilities of link 17 and I am sure it donot have the capability of data fusion ...

And what quantity are you talking about .. Almost 150 thunders and vipers against 230 mki 69 flankers 50 Mirage's 150 jaguars ...

Please wakeup guys we are short of planes we are relying on nuclear weapons

 

[Centurion2016]

Sir you are saying like AWACS are something out of the world ... Our adversary has the same ... Furthermore we don't know yet the capabilities of link 17 and I am sure it donot have the capability of data fusion ...

And what quantity are you talking about .. Almost 150 thunders and vipers against 230 mki 69 flankers 50 Mirage's 150 jaguars ...

Please wakeup guys we are short of planes we are relying on nuclear weapons

WHY have you completely discounted these beauties

These equip 3 sqds with 42 planes and are as good as anything in the sub continent

 

[The Accountant]

WHY have you completely discounted these beauties

View attachment 402237

View attachment 402238

View attachment 402239

These equip 3 sqds with 42 planes and are as good as anything in the sub continent

Pardon ... forgot those ...

 

[ebrahym]

Sir you are saying like AWACS are something out of the world ... Our adversary has the same ... Furthermore we don't know yet the capabilities of link 17 and I am sure it donot have the capability of data fusion ...

And what quantity are you talking about .. Almost 150 thunders and vipers against 230 mki 69 flankers 50 Mirage's 150 jaguars ...

Please wakeup guys we are short of planes we are relying on nuclear weapons

sir Pakistan has small airspace
AWACS are not out of the world
they serve their purpose
and that is long range target identification in air and target acquisition on ground

next pakistan has expressed their will to increase their aircraft in fighter category to 400
thats enough quantity for us
as for data links we have ......... they are reliable in the functions they are intended to do ....nothing more nothing less
we are testing them in waziristan war and exercises
we are confident they will serve their purpose
of course they will not make every jet a blk 3 thunder or blk 52+ viper but still they help a lot

 

[The Accountant]

sir Pakistan has small airspace
AWACS are not out of the world
they serve their purpose
and that is long range target identification in air and target acquisition on ground

next pakistan has expressed their will to increase their aircraft in fighter category to 400
thats enough quantity for us
as for data links we have ......... they are reliable in the functions they are intended to do ....nothing more nothing less
we are testing them in waziristan war and exercises
we are confident they will serve their purpose
of course they will not make every jet a blk 3 thunder or blk 52+ viper but still they help a lot

Sir if you are satisfies with the current aircraft inventory vs india then no one can argue with you based on knowledge