F-16 Justification---WHY?---ISPR

[Englishman]

Reminds me of a stubborn mother in law.

Poor daughter in law can't do good no matter what...

 

[doorstar]

Reminds me of a stubborn mother in law.

Poor daughter in law can't do good no matter what...

worse than that, he's a lousy janitor with delusions of grandeur.

 

[cranwerkhan]

Information warfare.. Did u notice why all these news are comming out now? When indian election is near. They want to win the election with lies we better expose them with truth

Hi,

The ISPR is just getting embroiled in a useless justification of no F16's shot down or no F16's involved in the skirmish---.

It was not very intelligent of the ISPR to give details of what aircraft were used on Feb 27th and how they operated and what tactics were used---.

This information was related to operational intelligence---and there was no reason for it to be released to the public on a public forum and to the enemy---.

We have weapons system---we used our weapons systems---we destroyed enemy aircraft---and that was it---.

Nothing more should have been stated---no further information was needed.

The ISPR Gen Ghafoor---disclosed secret information on public forum---told the enemy publicly what we used---what our capabilities are---and how we used them---and the tactics involved---it seemed like if he was teaching a high school students class on how a game of cricket.

I am am literally astounded at the belligerent leak of highly secret tactical & operational information in such a callous manner---.

Secondly---the Sqdrn Leader leaks out the information of the aircraft that he shot down to his family and friends---.

It looks like Pakistan's national operational security means nothing---everyone who gets the opportunity is racing to be the first to release this information openly---without thinking of the consequences---.

Further---I do not see any reason at all---why the DG ISPR would take it upon himself to keep releasing the information on the no F16 usage or no F16's shot down---.

The enemy has moved forward to get better and potent weapons systems and our ISPR is entangled in justifying what we did or what we did not do---.

@Khafee @Irfan Baloch @Mentee

 

[raja786]

Two guys just hijacked the thread. Nothing left to chat, Indian claims proven lies now. Just few Indian lovers and chootiyas trying to Curtin the Indian shame.
At the end for PAF they did good and made us all proud. Who dont like Pakistani Institution's and Generals and question there brilliance should get a mental check up.
Always Pakistan Zindabad.

 

[MastanKhan]

Actually we are only humiliating modi, as u know he is using terms ghus kar marain gay.. For his election win.. he is in big mess since FP revealed regarding pak F-16

Hi,

In my business dealings---I work with a lots of Sikhs---. The ones that I talk to---they all confirm that there is going to be no peace with India---.

BJP has spread too much hatred amongst the public against pakistan over the decades---and as pakistan has never stood up to counter the narrative as strongly as BJP has done it---they blame pakistan for everyone---.

They are basically brainwashed---and whatever pakistan may do---it is not going to change anything---the hatred is too deep.

As for embarrassing Modi---we need to understand---that you cannot bruise a pillow---. Modi is like a turtle---the water flows off his back---. It does not harm him---.

He has learnt the great american game---keep moving forward and let the enemy get embroiled in giving out justifications to clear themselves---and keep blaming the enemy with a new thing---.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

I don't give a sh-it about the whole institution just for the sake of institution---but I do know a lot about the indians---.

--.

 

[Crusher]

He has learnt the great american game---keep moving forward and let the enemy get embroiled in giving out justifications to clear themselves---and keep blaming the enemy with a new thing---.

You are right india has indeed learnt this art of blaming pakistan with a new thing with buzz words "terrorism", "terrorists", "terror" because they know these buzz words immediately draw sympathy from western powers post 2000 new terror buzzword paradigm. And the stupid elements of Pakistani establishment particularly foreign office keeps playing a victim narrative which no body buys at all. The western powers don't like never ending victim narrative but pakistani establishment doesn't get or perhaps doesn't want to get it, the narrative remains the same we have given "qurbaniyan" for this war on terror, but who gives a damn about "qurbaniyan" in international arena, there isn't even an equivalent word to "qurbaniyan" in international geopolitics anymore. And you are right there is no need to keep answering your adversary's never ending accusations about 27th February airforce skirmish, I think both indian as well as american establishments have identified the weakness of pakistani deep state of fondness to answer all kinds of rubbish allegations and accusations from india and america and they are playing this game very smartly. Somehow deep state in pakistan suffers from inferiority complex and is always trying their best to get "validation" from india, america that look we are "victims", we are "truth tellers", we are very "principled" but who gives damn about these virtues in international relations. But for some reason this desire by pakistani establishment to prove to others about their piousness and truthfulness is never satiated, they always are searching that moment of validation to satisfy their victim-hood souls.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi there Sir, it's been a while since I've replied to any of your very intriguing posts, you really do set the bar high as it should be.

Why did ISPR give the type of Aircraft used by PAF that struck the 6 locations inside IOK, operational pointers?

Probably to avoid unneeded speculation, unnecessary reaction, avoid being the one to respond later but being pro active and control the flow of only such information that suited Pakistan but more importantly to advertise JF17's capabilities in the field of battle and make the most of it.

On the other hand, India has tried it's best to downplay the role of JF17 defined by ISPR and in trying to counter the narrative and wrestle the control of information commanded by ISPR, they felt forced by ISPR enough to make the audacious counter claim of downing an F16 viz a viz Mig21.

Hook, line and sinker.

I think the world expected India to do the type of press conferences that DG ISPR conducted while the Indian Spokespersons appeared stammered and inconclusive on the information front.



As for the wing commander allegedly leaking info home, should always be strictly restricted and guarded with the threat of criminal proceedings against the perpetrators... if that too was not part of deliberate information warfare.



As for ISPR just getting embroiled in a useless justification of no F16's shot down etc, don't you think it is the job of ISPR to do exactly the same i.e. it's very job of leading the information warfare front.



It is not the job of ISPR to go for weapons systems but do exactly what it almost masterfully did, control information front.

Could it have been done any better? Certainly there is always room for improvement, but believe me Sir, the bar used to be quite low. Just like there is always room for improvement, the same can be said about criticism for which there is always room too, lol.

DG ISPR owes nothing but my gratitude.


Good point, the rest being highly classified is exactly why India is reluctant to show its AWACS charts.

Hi,

The raid on the 27th was beautifully planned but partially executed---.

The true shock and awe of the raid would have been to have kept quiet about how and what we used in the raid---.

This is war---why are we exposing our techniques and the machines used for this successful operation---.

We might have to perform these operations again---.

Paf and Pak military wanted to show off the world what we had done---. We would have been better off letting the world guess on its own and go crazy doing it---.

But we wanted to look so good in front of the world---.

Paf's ego got the best of this strategic strike---.

If I had a say in it---I would not have allowed the agency to utter a single word about the operation---the type of aircraft used----and the drama of locking a ground target and then moving the cursor away---.

The only thing released would have been the maximum number of aircraft show down---period---.

You are right india has indeed learnt this art of blaming pakistan with a new thing with buzz words "terrorism", "terrorists", "terror" because they know these buzz words immediately draw sympathy from western powers post 2000 new terror buzzword paradigm. And the stupid elements of Pakistani establishment particularly foreign office keeps playing a victim narrative which no body buys at all. The western powers don't like never ending victim narrative but pakistani establishment doesn't get or perhaps doesn't want to get it, the narrative remains the same we have given "qurbaniyan" for this war on terror, but who gives a damn about "qurbaniyan" in international arena, there isn't even an equivalent word to "qurbaniyan" in international geopolitics anymore. And you are right there is no need to keep answering your adversary's never ending accusations about 27th February airforce skirmish, I think both indian as well as american establishments have identified the weakness of pakistani deep state of fondness to answer all kinds of rubbish allegations and accusations from india and america and they are playing this game very smartly. Somehow deep state in pakistan suffers from inferiority complex and is always trying their best to get "validation" from india, america that look we are "victims", we are "truth tellers", we are very "principled" but who gives damn about these virtues in international relations. But for some reason this desire by pakistani establishment to prove to others about their piousness and truthfulness is never satiated, they always are searching that moment of validation to satisfy their victim-hood souls.

Hi,

The beauty of even a USELESS discussion is that someone will come up with a BRILLIANT analysis of the situation---.

And I thank you very much for putting it in those simple words---.

Hi,

The USAF struck a russian air base possibly early 50's---the strike ran rampant and the russians had no reply---.

The rumors were rife for 1/2 a century but no one knew the exact details of what had happened---. The public in general found out about it decades afterwards---

 

[denel]

I agree with it. There was no need to give any details. The could have answered the Yanks on official level on the use of F 16 once asked.

What ISPR should have done is to leak the video of the shooting down of the Su 30 without the voice recording, not to expose the pilot and any operational details in the voice recording.
F 16 is solved through independent means now. Please release the Su 30 kill by covert means, no need to get officially involved or give any news break or tweet. Unless ISPR needs to interact.

I concur, all operational details including equipment used etc etc - complete silence needs to be done.

 

[Shane]

Hi,
The true shock and awe of the raid would have been to have kept quiet about how and what we used in the raid---.

This is war---why are we exposing our techniques and the machines used for this successful operation---.

We might have to perform these operations again---.

Aa again.

Although I would like to agree with you that the true shock and awe of the raid could have been to have kept quiet about how and what we used in the raid but let me raise a few more points in addition to the ones in my earlier response.

We are, after all, a developing world nation and considering the literacy rate, we have to cater to the masses accordingly and how the Sultan Rahi loving masses, who not just love but demand such details, would have perceived ISPR's silence is anybody's guess. It was a gamble which ISPR probably was not prepared to take.

Already we see that Indian media is trying it's best to put out as much propaganda and disinformation as it can, acting as a tool of the extremist Modi government. Pakistani media, which displayed a lot more maturity, however, is still not focused enough on defence matters and too politically fractured to be at par on the propaganda front.

In essence, this same public hinted at in kind above, lol, and it's unprecedented demand and pressure is one of the major reasons why the PAF and the government felt it had to respond to the Indian aggression along with the foremost reason that our sovereignty was indeed breached.

So you see, we cannot afford the same luxuries with respect to staying quite about our operations that the developed nations enjoy. This stands true for both India and Pakistan, and we all know that the muted official response of Indians on information front has indeed turned out to be a total failure.

In my humble opinion, although your arguments carry weight and more so for developed countries but minus our particular regional scenario...There still seems to be more reasons "for" than "against" going public with those stated details.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Had ISPR not responded and let the Indians take over the narrative, the same people here that are criticizing them about disclosing their techniques and strategies would have been asking for them to be court martialed and hung for betraying the Pakistani nation and not challenging the Indian media and govt. claims. I mean, just go back and read the posts of members after the IAF strikes in Balakot and before our response came and the true color shows up for a lot of these posters.
@MastanKhan you seem to impress upon people your great intellect and strategic thinking, however, it is somehow always after the fact. Anyone can do that a month later of an event once the dust has settled and enough time has passed for you to change your thinking 3 times of how PAF should have handled itself. I think if you really want to show your mettle, why dont you come up with some base cases for a response to future Indian activities against Pakistan, both overt and covert and how/when/what our response should be like in different domains etc.
Most people already are of the opinion that Indians are not done with their new strategy of trying to make a new norm of attacking Pakistan. In the case this happens again, and say the Indians strike somewhere in Pakistan proper again, please elaborate what our response should be, and include different scenarios that take into account the size of the attack, damage done, pretexts, etc and then the response by Pakistan in terms of proportion, time/place, and ramifications etc.

 

[SIPRA]

Had ISPR not responded and let the Indians take over the narrative, the same people here that are criticizing them about disclosing their techniques and strategies would have been asking for them to be court martialed and hung for betraying the Pakistani nation and not challenging the Indian media and govt. claims. I mean, just go back and read the posts of members after the IAF strikes in Balakot and before our response came and the true color shows up for a lot of these posters.
@MastanKhan you seem to impress upon people your great intellect and strategic thinking, however, it is somehow always after the fact. Anyone can do that a month later of an event once the dust has settled and enough time has passed for you to change your thinking 3 times of how PAF should have handled itself. I think if you really want to show your mettle, why dont you come up with some base cases for a response to future Indian activities against Pakistan, both overt and covert and how/when/what our response should be like in different domains etc.
Most people already are of the opinion that Indians are not done with their new strategy of trying to make a new norm of attacking Pakistan. In the case this happens again, and say the Indians strike somewhere in Pakistan proper again, please elaborate what our response should be, and include different scenarios that take into account the size of the attack, damage done, pretexts, etc and then the response by Pakistan in terms of proportion, time/place, and ramifications etc.

Excellent analysis as well as a good suggestion for armchair/keyboard warriors and marshalls

 

[MastanKhan]

Had ISPR not responded and let the Indians take over the narrative, the same people here that are criticizing them about disclosing their techniques and strategies would have been asking for them to be court martialed and hung for betraying the Pakistani nation and not challenging the Indian media and govt. claims. I mean, just go back and read the posts of members after the IAF strikes in Balakot and before our response came and the true color shows up for a lot of these posters.
@MastanKhan you seem to impress upon people your great intellect and strategic thinking, however, it is somehow always after the fact. Anyone can do that a month later of an event once the dust has settled and enough time has passed for you to change your thinking 3 times of how PAF should have handled itself. I think if you really want to show your mettle, why dont you come up with some base cases for a response to future Indian activities against Pakistan, both overt and covert and how/when/what our response should be like in different domains etc.
Most people already are of the opinion that Indians are not done with their new strategy of trying to make a new norm of attacking Pakistan. In the case this happens again, and say the Indians strike somewhere in Pakistan proper again, please elaborate what our response should be, and include different scenarios that take into account the size of the attack, damage done, pretexts, etc and then the response by Pakistan in terms of proportion, time/place, and ramifications etc.

Hi,

Young man---you lack intelligence---and I don't blame you---. You are a pakistani young man---so why should it be any different than most others---.

War is happening now---so by default---everything would change---all the answers would change---strategies and game plans will change---some people will be cowering down---others will become raging bulls---.

And as for scenarios---why would I create a scenario of attack on my motherland at this time on an open forum---.

See---if you created a scenario and the enemy acted upon it---you won't give a sh-it---otoh you might be high fiving your buddies that your scenario got importance---even though by the enemy---not me.

So---please ask an intelligent question---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

Young man---you lack intelligence---and I don't blame you---. You are a pakistani young man---so why should it be any different than most others---.

War is happening now---so by default---everything would change---all the answers would change---strategies and game plans will change---some people will be cowering down---others will become raging bulls---.

And as for scenarios---why would I create a scenario of attack on my motherland at this time on an open forum---.

See---if you created a scenario and the enemy acted upon it---you won't give a sh-it---otoh you might be high fiving your buddies that your scenario got importance---even though by the enemy---not me.

So---please ask an intelligent question---.

Yeah I expected as much from you. But don't stress about it Mastan. I knew you were just full of air, but wanted to see what excuse you would come up with.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

With you and the PAF, it’s a case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t. You will criticize them either way.

Much needed criticism