F-15 in PAF

[sigatoka]

I was thinking that rather than Pakistan having very similar aircrafts of FC-1 AND F-16, and since pakistan already has F-16 then Pakistan should purchase F-15.

The F-15 that Saudi Arabia use is approx 80million U.S. a piece. Very very expensive. But it is larger than F-16 and can perform deep interdiction strikes.

The problem is that Pakistan would become dangerousely dependant on one supplier the U.S. which has demonstrated in the past that it is very undependaple and will apply sanctions at the first whiff when Pak. and U.S. dont align.

AND the F-15 is an overpriced s**t. its too expensive. If pakistan is serious then either it maintains a fleet of F-16 or FC-1 with Su-27 for deep strike missions.

A fleet of F-16 and F-15 and FC-1 would be terrible blunder. Complicated logistics and the FC-1 would have extremely high unit cost with such a small production run.

The best solution is to slowly wean Pakistan off the F-16 over a 15year period which would be replaced with around 200 FC-1. This would be complemented with around 20 Su-27 employed in deep interdiction strikes with tactical nuclear weapons.

 

[Owais]

Originally posted by sigatoka@Nov 27 2005, 01:41 PM
I was thinking that rather than Pakistan having very similar aircrafts of FC-1 AND F-16, and since pakistan already has F-16 then Pakistan should purchase F-15.

[post=3848]Quoted post[/post]​

My Question is that, why go for toooo expansive F15E from US when we can get cheaper and much better than F15E,The EUFTyphoon?

 

[Best of the Best]

Originally posted by Owais@Nov 27 2005, 03:47 PM
My Question is that, why go for toooo expansive F15E from US when we can get cheaper and much better than F15E,The EUFTyphoon?

[post=3854]Quoted post[/post]​

Owais only if it was that easy when you buy a fighter you need to keep many things in mind secondly with infrastructure training weapons etc etc the Euro fighter would cost PAF way above 100 million per copy on the 1st order....i know you would come and say it doesnt cost that much etc tec but when i come online on MSN i will explain.....hope that answer's your question

 

[Owais]

Originally posted by Best of the Best@Nov 27 2005, 03:42 PM
Owais only if it was that easy when you buy a fighter you need to keep many things in mind secondly with infrastructure training weapons etc etc the Euro fighter would cost PAF way above 100 million per copy on the 1st order....i know you would come and say it doesnt cost that much etc tec but when i come online on MSN i will explain.....hope that answer's your question

[post=3855]Quoted post[/post]​

Best, U are absolutely right!
But these all thing will also arise when we go for F15E.only F16s favours that advantage.

 

[sigatoka]

Both India and Pakistan have dominant Air warfare strategy which are assymetric. This means that India and Pakistan won't have the same mixture of Planes and doctrines with only differences being that India has more planes.

The strategy for India will be firstly to achieve Air Superiority over India (which is a given), Then they will attempt to achieve airsuperiority over Pakistan. Thirdly once airsuperiority is achieved over pakistan, they will then use their fighter bombers (su-27 and Tupalovs) to hit Pakistani ground forces.

Pakistan's strategy is to deny airsuperiority over Pakistan's skies To India. Therefore in Pakistan's strategy, fighter bombers will always have a much much lower priority than Fighter-interceptors.

In India these two different types of aircrafts will have equal priority.

Therefore before pakistan asks questions on F-15, they must answer another question. That is can Pakistan deny airsuperiority of Pakistan's skies to India. If the answer is yes, only then should fighter bombers be pursued.

 

[Owais]

I think Pakistan may go for Saudi Arabia's used F-15s in future.because of the following reasons.

1, they are new and recently purchased from the US in 1999. As if the Saudis want to sell them so soon.

2, they are down-graded versions of F-15E, with downgraded avionics and radar due to Israel's objection of allowing neighbouring Arabs to have sensitive technology.so, they may be cheaper.

May be Pakistan will get them when they will turn old(after 5 to 8 years) or unless the Saudis are unimpressed with its performance and goes for European alternatives (eg. Eurofighters & Rafales) to replace them.

 

[EagleEyes]

I doubt that the Arabs would be stupid enough to sell their F-15s to us. They need those F-15s, and they will continue to use it for quite long until their flight hours are over or their air frame life.

It would be better off, if KSA and Pakistan goes for Rafale or some latest European aviation contender in the future. To decrease the unit cost they can make a joint deal, and in the future you never know how much funds will PAF have, so future looks bright to me.

 

[air marshal]

According to my views, F-15 is only for some selected countries, like USAF, Israel, Japan, Saudi Arabia, South Korea. Obviously F-15 is well aircraft specially for Bombarment.

The F-15 Eagle is a true air superiority fighter with great speed and climb rate. Equipped with the APG-63 radar and later the APG-70 and its avionics make it an excellent platform for the AIM-7F Sparrow III and the more advanced AIM-120 AMRAAM medium range air-to-air missiles. However the F-15 soon proved itself as a multi-role fighter also being capable for the air-to-ground role. The TF-15A was a combat capable tandem two-seater also designated F-15B.

The F-15C and the two seat variant F-15D are improved versions of the F-15 with the AGP-70 radar (a programmable digital signal processor, synthetic-aperture ground mapping and track-while-scan air-to-air capability), an uprated powerplant, and provision for low-drag conformal packs carrying fuel and fitted with tangential attachments for weapons.

The dual-role F-15E Strike Eagle is basically a converted F-15B/D trainer for the ground-attack role. It has a total of 18 external hardpoints and is capable of carrying a wide range of guided or unguided air-ground weapons and up to eight Air-to-Air missiles. And is also capable of delevering nuclear weapons.

The F-15I, F-15K and F-15S are designations for the export versions of the F-15E for Israel, Korea and Saudi Arabie respectively. Licensed built F-15C/D aircraft by Japan for designated F-15J/DJ. Korea has recently ordered the Boeing F-15K while Sukhoi was offering the more agile Su-35 at a much lower price. The F-15K is more advanced than the original F-15E, it has better radar and improved systems and a helmet-mounted cueing system.

 

[air marshal]

Specification F-15C:

Powerplant: two 105.73 kN (23,770 lb st) Pratt & Whitney F100-P-220 turbofans
Dimensions: length 19.43m (63 ft 9 in); height 5.63m (18 ft 5½ in); wing span 13.05m (42 ft 9½ in)
Weights: take-off ('clean&#39 20.244 kg (44,630 lb); Max Take-Off Weight 30.845 kg (68,000 lb)
Performance: max level speed at 10.975m (36,000 ft) more than Mach 2.5 or 2.655 km/h (1,665 mph); service ceiling more than 18,290m (60,000 ft)
Armament: one 20mm M61A1 Vulcan six-barrel cannon with 940 rounds; 10.705 kg (23,600 lb) of disposable stores, including nuclear weapons, ASMs, AAMs, free-fall or guided bombs, cluster bombs, dispenser weapons, rocket launchers, napalm tanks, drop tanks and ECM pods, carried on nine external hardpoints

Specification F-15E:

Powerplant: two 129.45 kN (29,100 lb st) Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 turbofans
Dimensions: length 19.43m (63 ft 9 in); height 5.63m (18 ft 6 in); wing span (over tip launchers) 13.05m (42ft 10 in)
Weights: take-off ('clean&#39 14.515 kg (32,000 lb); Max Take-Off Weight 36.741 kg (81,000 lb)
Performance: max level speed at high altitude ('clean&#39 more than 2.655 km/h (1,650 mph); max rate of climb at sea level +15.240m (50,000 ft)/min; max range 4.455 km (2,762 miles)
Armament: one 20mm M61A1 Vulcan six-barrel cannon with 512 rounds; 11.000 kg (24,250 lb) of ordnance , including nuclear weapons, ASMs, AAMs, anti-radar missiles, anti-ship missiles, free-fall or guided bombs, cluster bombs, dispenser weapons, rocket launchers, napalm tanks, ECM pods, and three auxiliary fuel tanks, carried on up to eightteen external hardpoints.

 

[Zeeshan S.]

F-15 in PAF, in my opinion not a chance? Why are we going behind, or typically wasting our money when we can spend the same money in our aviation industry? Which will vastly improve our fighting avation industry. F-15s are now old, and no more upgradable although they can provide a good capability to PAF but still with the same price (almost) you can get a better platform, whose future is bright and upgradable when upgrades are available, not just that they will be in class of worlds top class fighters. I am talking about Rafale, Typhoon, Su-30, etc. Who will have a great rivalry between each other.

 

[Iceman2]

i think we should go for Eurofighter instead of F-16.

 

[Iceman2]

sorry F-15

 

[Quwa]

PAF will not procure a heavy twin engine fighter; but let me remind you that F-15E is like 90-100mn USD per plane in contrast to EF and Rafale which are at least 120mn USD each. Performance wise the F-15E would be an absolute jewl in the South Asian equation; but a white elephant to maintain in PAF's case.

 

[imiakhtar]

the KSA is very unlikely to sell the F-15 to the PAF. when the jets were sold to the KSA there would have been clauses forbidding the transfer of the jets and technical data to certain countries like pakistan. the US does not like giving away its' secrets. even with the JSF project with the UK, the US was reluctant in transferring technical data to the british.
this was one of the major concerns when the recent deal with pakistan was signed for the f16s. would pakistan pass the data on to other countries concerning the F16s capabilities and technology.

 

[EagleEyes]

Just cause it was frobidden to transfer the technology to Pakistan, doesn't mean that Pakistani staff can't learn their own by looking/observing/testing the systems in their aircrafts. It has been done in the past secretly.

However, Pakistan is not yet able to handle advance systems in F-15 by itself. As ACM has stated that Pakistan will not be able to handle Gripen transfer of technology even if it is given a go head.

It will take years after JF-17 has started to develop and Pakistan has gotten some experience on making aircrafts on transfer of technology basis.