Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[帅的一匹]

I think Argentina tried to use the "used F-16" thing to force the price for the JF-17 to go down. Howe will US allow them to use F-16 to counter UK AF? This is unreal.

We shouldn’t give them an discount.

 

[PDF]

I think Argentina tried to use the "used F-16" thing to force the price for the JF-17 to go down. Howe will US allow them to use F-16 to counter UK AF? This is unreal.

After the Falklands war, the UK imposed an arms embargo on Argentina. The United States, however, sold Argentina 36 A-4AR Fighting hawks, a refurbished and upgraded version of the A-4 Skyhawks. Other equipment purchased by Argentina were: 23 US Army surplus OV-1 Mohawks, 22 Ex-Israeli IAI Dagger, 2 C-130B, and 1 Lockheed L-100-30.

 

[Beast]

A delegation of pilots and technicians traveled to China to evaluate the capabilities of the Sino-Pakistani fighter JF-17 Thunder, one of the main candidates to provide the Argentine Air Force (FAA) with supersonic fighter capability.

Sabino Vaca Narvaja, the Argentine ambassador to China and General Norberto Zarate, the embassy’s military attaché, were present at CATIC.

DangDai media confirmed the visit of the Argentine delegation to the CATIC (China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation) facilities, located in the city of Chengdu. There, the Argentine personnel carried out different technical evaluation stages that included the use of simulators, cockpit practices and evaluation flight tests.

Given the restrictions imposed by China due to the resurgence of COVID-19 cases in the country, the Argentine personnel had to undergo a 28-day quarantine. However, CATIC personnel had made available to the Argentine delegation diverse technical documentation and even a flight simulator, for that lockdown time not to be wasted and to become familiar with the JF-17 Thunder model.

This evaluation is essential to acquire a thorough knowledge of the fighter aircraft under study, to be able to make an informed decision on whether to incorporate one or another weapon system.

Of the five supersonic-capable candidates originally vetted by the Argentine Air Force (the Israeli Kfir, the American F-16, the Russian MiG-35, the Indian Tejas and the Sino/Pakistani JF-17), only the JF-17 and the second-hand F-16 remain in the final stretch.


The Argentine delegation should travel to Denmark soon to evaluate the technical characteristics of a dozen F-16A/B MLU that were offered, as the Royal Danish Air Force (RDAF) is replacing them with F-35 Lightning IIs.

Ill-concealed favoritism​

Paradoxically, even before carrying out this in-depth evaluation, the Argentine government had already been giving clues about its preference for the Chinese option.

The clearest and most forceful of these was evidenced on September 15, 2021, when the Argentine budget proposal bill for fiscal year 2022 included a provision of US$ 664 million for the acquisition of fighter jets, specifically the JF-17 Thunder Block III.

The news was first published on this site, as a world first, and caused a great stir in Argentina, China, and Pakistan. Finally, the Argentine Government was forced to issue a communiqué on September 21, in which it clarified that no final decision had been reached on the new fighter aircraft model to be incorporated, and that five candidates were still being evaluated.

The unavoidable political component of a technical selection​

Although there is still no official position on the fighter aircraft model to be chosen, and both Israel and India have renewed their offers for the IAI Kfir NG and HAL Tejas Mk1A, respectively, the fact that the options are precisely those of China and the U.S. seems to indicate that what Argentina is really trying to decide is its geostrategic alignment.

Both the ex-Danish F-16 and the new JF-17 Block III represent quite different proposals, from the technical point of view, each one with its virtues and defects.


F-16 MLU of the Royal Danish Air Force.

But the acquisition of a weapon system as complex as combat aircraft also implies the establishment (or continuity) of a long-term commercial, technical and political relationship between the supplier and the recipient country. And this is the most difficult variable for the Argentine government to evaluate, particularly in the current situation of a clear confrontation between the two major powers in the world: the United States and China.

​

Argentina, in choosing its next fighter jet, could be deciding on its future alignment in international politics for the next 10 to 20 years, and the dangerous currents separating the two global superpowers are not easy to navigate.

Argentine Air Force delegation evaluated the JF-17 Thunder in China

A delegation of pilots and technicians traveled to China to evaluate the capabilities of the Sino-Pakistani fighter JF-17 Thunder, one of the main candidates to

www.aviacionline.com

This stupid western aviation commenter still try to beat the dead horse? Tejas and IAI kfir? Lol... No without pass the dead body of British.

Danish F-16? You mean you can sell F-16 to anybody without US permission? US willing to jeopardize UK and US r/s over this few F-16 deal? Or Argentina AF are stupid enough to take an F-16 that will be immobilized if used against UK?

The sheer ignorant of these so called profession aviation website are incredible. They are just bitter that JF-17 gonna win another deal from the so called western countries.

We shouldn’t give them an discount.

No discount given. CAAC insist USD 50 million each with either AAF take it or leave it.

Don't worry, they have no choice. No western countries dare to sale due to UK pressure. US will sanction any small countries attempt to buy arm from Russia. This left China the only option. Before any idiot still want to talk about Tejas and south Korea T-50, both uses UK component and UK will veto it.

 

[MastanKhan]

After the Falklands war, the UK imposed an arms embargo on Argentina. The United States, however, sold Argentina 36 A-4AR Fighting hawks, a refurbished and upgraded version of the A-4 Skyhawks. Other equipment purchased by Argentina were: 23 US Army surplus OV-1 Mohawks, 22 Ex-Israeli IAI Dagger, 2 C-130B, and 1 Lockheed L-100-30.

Hi,

That was just " feel good " equipment---otherwise no match for the UK armed forces.

 

[CHI RULES]

Argentine needs a restriction free platform with which it can integrate suitable ammo which is certainly JF17 in all available choices having complete range of Ammo options. However it is a fact that with one or two squadron Argentina may come in position to conduct some attacks on it's adversary naval assets as they did with handful of Mirages during Falkland war. But in A2A engagements they may not be able to survive against Euro fighters and F35s.

Argentina should have a long term strategy with initial induction to pose any challenge to UK.

 

[diligence]

This stupid western aviation commenter still try to beat the dead horse? Tejas and IAI kfir? Lol... No without pass the dead body of British.

Danish F-16? You mean you can sell F-16 to anybody without US permission? US willing to jeopardize UK and US r/s over this few F-16 deal? Or Argentina AF are stupid enough to take an F-16 that will be immobilized if used against UK?

The sheer ignorant of these so called profession aviation website are incredible. They are just bitter that JF-17 gonna win another deal from the so called western countries.


No discount given. CAAC insist USD 50 million each with either AAF take it or leave it.

Don't worry, they have no choice. No western countries dare to sale due to UK pressure. US will sanction any small countries attempt to buy arm from Russia. This left China the only option. Before any idiot still want to talk about Tejas and south Korea T-50, both uses UK component and UK will veto it.

Take it easy bro.
manipulating and skewing news (and even planting fake news stories) is quite prevalent for decades now. Such manipulations are used to change or create perceptions to safeguard national interests. Indians are notoriously infamous in creating and planting fake news (even in the name of dead scholars). But westerners focus more on skewing news in order to change perception.
In this case, it seems they are doing it just because it's hard for them to digest the reality. Argentinians were on the mercy of European/American powers for getting western weapon systems despite the fact that UK was/is their enemy. The reality is that Argentinians now have an option in the form of Thunders. For any air force, fighter planes represent just one piece in a whole echo system. Spares, ammunition, missiles, radars, and other sensors, and above all political factors make-up the complete picture. All these factors require strategic decisions. How can Argentine buy a western system that brings so many strings attached with it. In other words, any western system will be more of a stranglehold for Argentinians than a means of their national defense. So the final outcome seems to be clear since long (specific reference to Thunders in their budget document). Rest is just a formality, I strongly feel.

 

[tphuang]

It's pretty clear at this point that argentinian air force likes jf17 and want to get it, but there is a lot of us political pressure against that. It's either jf17 or nothing at all for Argentina. If I were caac, I would just offer generous terms on jf17. Better to lock in a new customer. But then again, Chinese companies are tough negotiators. So we will see what happens.

 

[Beast]

It's pretty clear at this point that argentinian air force likes jf17 and want to get it, but there is a lot of us political pressure against that. It's either jf17 or nothing at all for Argentina. If I were caac, I would just offer generous terms on jf17. Better to lock in a new customer. But then again, Chinese companies are tough negotiators. So we will see what happens.

The problem is Argentina wanted to take China for a ride. They are offering initially USD 20 million for a 4th gen AESA fighter jet becos they think its made in China and China are desperate to sell these jets to them.

China refuse to back down from USD 50 million each which considered many goodies and tech invested into it. China are playing the patience game. Its more of Argentina desperate since they has pretty all source exhausted due to UK against it.

 

[帅的一匹]

The problem is Argentina wanted to take China for a ride. They are offering initially USD 20 million for a 4th gen AESA fighter jet becos they think its made in China and China are desperate to sell these jets to them.

China refuse to back down from USD 50 million each which considered many goodies and tech invested into it. China are playing the patience game. Its more of Argentina desperate since they has pretty all source exhausted due to UK against it.

Argentina is a helpless country, they don’t have long term strategy.

 

[Signalian]

A good read on how weapons are made, marketed and sold.

"The Weapon Wizards- How Israel Became a High-Tech Military Superpower" by katz and Bohbot.

 

[siegecrossbow]

A delegation of pilots and technicians traveled to China to evaluate the capabilities of the Sino-Pakistani fighter JF-17 Thunder, one of the main candidates to provide the Argentine Air Force (FAA) with supersonic fighter capability.

Sabino Vaca Narvaja, the Argentine ambassador to China and General Norberto Zarate, the embassy’s military attaché, were present at CATIC.

DangDai media confirmed the visit of the Argentine delegation to the CATIC (China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation) facilities, located in the city of Chengdu. There, the Argentine personnel carried out different technical evaluation stages that included the use of simulators, cockpit practices and evaluation flight tests.

Given the restrictions imposed by China due to the resurgence of COVID-19 cases in the country, the Argentine personnel had to undergo a 28-day quarantine. However, CATIC personnel had made available to the Argentine delegation diverse technical documentation and even a flight simulator, for that lockdown time not to be wasted and to become familiar with the JF-17 Thunder model.

This evaluation is essential to acquire a thorough knowledge of the fighter aircraft under study, to be able to make an informed decision on whether to incorporate one or another weapon system.

Of the five supersonic-capable candidates originally vetted by the Argentine Air Force (the Israeli Kfir, the American F-16, the Russian MiG-35, the Indian Tejas and the Sino/Pakistani JF-17), only the JF-17 and the second-hand F-16 remain in the final stretch.


The Argentine delegation should travel to Denmark soon to evaluate the technical characteristics of a dozen F-16A/B MLU that were offered, as the Royal Danish Air Force (RDAF) is replacing them with F-35 Lightning IIs.

Ill-concealed favoritism​

Paradoxically, even before carrying out this in-depth evaluation, the Argentine government had already been giving clues about its preference for the Chinese option.

The clearest and most forceful of these was evidenced on September 15, 2021, when the Argentine budget proposal bill for fiscal year 2022 included a provision of US$ 664 million for the acquisition of fighter jets, specifically the JF-17 Thunder Block III.

The news was first published on this site, as a world first, and caused a great stir in Argentina, China, and Pakistan. Finally, the Argentine Government was forced to issue a communiqué on September 21, in which it clarified that no final decision had been reached on the new fighter aircraft model to be incorporated, and that five candidates were still being evaluated.

The unavoidable political component of a technical selection​

Although there is still no official position on the fighter aircraft model to be chosen, and both Israel and India have renewed their offers for the IAI Kfir NG and HAL Tejas Mk1A, respectively, the fact that the options are precisely those of China and the U.S. seems to indicate that what Argentina is really trying to decide is its geostrategic alignment.

Both the ex-Danish F-16 and the new JF-17 Block III represent quite different proposals, from the technical point of view, each one with its virtues and defects.


F-16 MLU of the Royal Danish Air Force.

But the acquisition of a weapon system as complex as combat aircraft also implies the establishment (or continuity) of a long-term commercial, technical and political relationship between the supplier and the recipient country. And this is the most difficult variable for the Argentine government to evaluate, particularly in the current situation of a clear confrontation between the two major powers in the world: the United States and China.

​

Argentina, in choosing its next fighter jet, could be deciding on its future alignment in international politics for the next 10 to 20 years, and the dangerous currents separating the two global superpowers are not easy to navigate.

Argentine Air Force delegation evaluated the JF-17 Thunder in China

A delegation of pilots and technicians traveled to China to evaluate the capabilities of the Sino-Pakistani fighter JF-17 Thunder, one of the main candidates to

www.aviacionline.com

 

[MastanKhan]

The problem is Argentina wanted to take China for a ride. They are offering initially USD 20 million for a 4th gen AESA fighter jet becos they think its made in China and China are desperate to sell these jets to them.

China refuse to back down from USD 50 million each which considered many goodies and tech invested into it. China are playing the patience game. Its more of Argentina desperate since they has pretty all source exhausted due to UK against it.

Hi,

I will give you a different perspective.

Argentina was not taking china for a ride---. They offered what they could manage and they offered china inroad to south america weapons market.

 

[Beast]

Hi,

I will give you a different perspective.

Argentina was not taking china for a ride---. They offered what they could manage and they offered china inroad to south america weapons market.

We don't need Argentina to lead inroad. And Argentina willing to paid more than. USD 50 million for South Korea F/A-50 which lack AESA but not willing to paid for JF-17 Blk III with the same price? I don't think they have financial problem.


But I believe they have since wake up their idea as nobody is willing to sell them arms except China. If not, they will not be sending delegates to Chengdu to check it out.

 

[johncliu88]

Another source was saying that the Argentinians could not make up their mind for JF-17 or used F-16 from Denmark. But all in behind was that US tried to screw up the deal of JF-17.

 

[SABRE]

Another source was saying that the Argentinians could not make up their mind for JF-17 or used F-16 from Denmark. But all in behind was that US tried to screw up the deal of JF-17.

Denmark has decided to keep its F-16s flying for at least three more years because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, therefore Argentina hasn't got much chance of "making up its mind" on those aircraft. Prospects of JF-17 look good but still not assured.