Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[Keysersoze]

LOL, even u admit its 90s. The view and political environment of Argentina has changed.

Any Argentinian dont talk about Falkland will be lynch. I have with Argentinian. They have nothing but Falkland in mind only. American is bunch of conman who look after their interest only. Unless u can prove Argentina is more important than UK for US. I will eat back my words!

Fair enough then we will both have to wait until the result is seen.

 

[serenity]

I entirely agree with you about the racist comments, Users on this forum have a habit of generalizing the entire populace of any country whenever it suits them, but the sad thing is there are plenty of Ultra-nationalist Chinese bots on the internet, Including this forum, who will absolutely never admit that countries other than China can also make good technology or that China isn’t always the one making the best things.

While nobody can doubt that Chinas Technological prowess in military terms is catching up to Europe and will certainly start catching up to the US soon, these Chinese members seem like they’re literally payed to spread Chinese propaganda on every online site and forum they can find. And they do need to be called out. Doing so with racist comments however is extremely wrong.

Whenever that happens then yes. But so far in this case there isn't such a thing. Beast did not say China is best or anything even like that. Beast did not say China is ahead of US.

In terms of the bots saying no other country makes technology? I have not seen that except from false flaggers. I know lots of members here prefer to think that because the Indians and Americans did say this stuff like 1000000000 times so even Chinese believe it but clear thinking and clear observation show not a single Chinese member on PDF have said China's tech is ahead of Europe and USA. Neither have even trolls and bots said that technology cannot be made by anyone.

If some do say stuff like that, please then disagree and show them they are wrong and tag me too. Only that Indian troll Tai Hai Chen or whatever keeps trolling with language and posts similar to what you have said. In other cases, it's always Chinese members defending and respondign to posts like "Chinese cannot think or can or copy".

 

[iLION12345_1]

Whenever that happens then yes. But so far in this case there isn't such a thing. Beast did not say China is best or anything even like that. Beast did not say China is ahead of US.

In terms of the bots saying no other country makes technology? I have not seen that except from false flaggers. I know lots of members here prefer to think that because the Indians and Americans did say this stuff like 1000000000 times so even Chinese believe it but clear thinking and clear observation show not a single Chinese member on PDF have said China's tech is ahead of Europe and USA. Neither have even trolls and bots said that technology cannot be made by anyone.

If some do say stuff like that, please then disagree and show them they are wrong and tag me too. Only that Indian troll Tai Hai Chen or whatever keeps trolling with language and posts similar to what you have said. In other cases, it's always Chinese members defending and respondign to posts like "Chinese cannot think or can or copy".

Beast had a history of pissing people off with his extremely negative attitude, he deserves every negative rating he has. That’s just my experience with him. However it still doesn’t call for any sort of racist comments, especially not in this case, as you said he presented no negative comments.

 

[Beast]

Beast had a history of pissing people off with his extremely negative attitude, he deserves every negative rating he has. That’s just my experience with him. However it still doesn’t call for any sort of racist comments, especially not in this case, as you said he presented no negative comments.

Piss? More like some cannot accept the rising of China... They still think China can only make plastic toys or car that break down in a single day..

Chinese already landed a working rover on Mars while European like Russian and EU still scratching their head how to successful landed one.

Open your eyes wider and see what is high end Made in China.

 

[Keysersoze]

Do you realize your insult of communist and little red book on any Chinese member is just a way for people to degrade others? He may not be communist and most likely doesn't wave little red book these days.

So basically whenever a Chinese person disagree with whatever you believe, it is okay for you to belittle them and quote these stereotypes. Do you think it's right for Chinese members to make fun of your religion and tease you because you are stupid muslim who believe in fantasy novel just because a Chinese member disagree with you?

Do you see what I'm trying to say?

Whenever it suits Pakistan members, they get to dehumanize and belittle Chinese due to convenience and employ the same racist and belittling lines used by whites for example. Propagating the same attitude and trying to destroy their point of view.

Rather than attacking and disproving his opinion, you say stupid things, like if you can get through censorship and your communism (which you don't even know since you don't know him), then you will see and agree with me. This isn't very logical or fair with attacking things only associated with the person to rob them of their opinion and plant and force your's. BTW Pakistan does censorship and media propaganda non stop as well. Stop pretending it doesn't either and shouting down Chinese whenever it happens to suit what you're trying to claim. We don't know which one of you is right yet. There is no point to accuse him of these things. I didn't see him do the same to you about your faith or whatever unfair insults and accusations.

I never see Chinese members do this on Pakistani ones even when it is Pakistani who are totally wrong and post the most stupid things that are proven wrong again and again.

Wow .....you have written a lot and yet have provided no substance.
That you went to racism shows your level if thinking.
The simple fact is that Chinese members in China are not allowed to post negative things about China. Do not have unfettered access to knowledge that other countries have. Or even the ability to freely communicate with others outside of China.


The red book comment is related to Communism and hive mind thinking. That you think that is "Racism" is ludicrous. And frankly is what whiney lefties use in the west.


Beast uses daft reasoning and regularly posts nonsense as far as I am concerned. And as such either he is either an idiot or is required to pst like that to earn social credit.

Is that why you are claiming racism?

I have no problem with Chinese ability to get things done but will not be sucked into the Communist way of thinking.

 

[Keysersoze]

I entirely agree with you about the racist comments, Users on this forum have a habit of generalizing the entire populace of any country whenever it suits them, but the sad thing is there are plenty of Ultra-nationalist Chinese bots on the internet, Including this forum, who will absolutely never admit that countries other than China can also make good technology or that China isn’t always the one making the best things. All they will do is hate on the US, the West (and similarly any country that suits them) but will never admit accept an iota of criticism for China (or praise for anyone who goes against it).

While nobody can doubt that Chinas Technological prowess in military terms is catching up to Europe and will certainly start catching up to the US soon, these Chinese members seem like they’re literally payed to spread Chinese propaganda on every online site and forum they can find. And they do need to be called out. Doing so with racist comments however is extremely wrong.

There is a reason certain members have 40 negative ratings. This doesn’t mean anyone should be racist towards them. But it certainly means they’re in the wrong more often than not. There are also some very respected Chinese posters on those forum (you are turning out to be one of them too) who bring actual sources and logic to arguments instead of backhanded insults towards everything else.

Exactly. The Chinese have surged forward in respect to many areas but as you have said they only seem to let the ultra nationalist types on the internet.

I literally spoke with Chinese students at a protest who were paid by the Chinese govt to counter demonstrate against HK protestors (In the UK) they admitted it to us.

If criticism is "Racism" then some posters will have a real problem.

 

[SQ8]

Gentlemen - the aspect of nationalism and the ability to agree to disagree always conflict. Meanwhile the JF-17 hasn’t secured an export order because of it.. so I suggest it be taken offline

 

[Keysersoze]

Not to but in but let’s not forget the Bengal famine and other disastrous actions of the British that have killed and maimed millions and separated families across the Atlantic. No one nation is innocent but the European or those who adopted their homes in Europe should be the last niggas in the line talking about what the Chinese did and didn’t do.

What aboutism is not a valid argument. And I can have an opinion on whatever I want wherever I live. I am guessing you live overseas as well judging by your unironic use of the term "Niggas"

Gentlemen - the aspect of nationalism and the ability to agree to disagree always conflict. Meanwhile the JF-17 hasn’t secured an export order because of it.. so I suggest it be taken offline

No worries

As I was saying.....I believe a western option will be taken by the Argentines.
Azerbaijan and Iraq are a more interesting question.

 

[Keysersoze]

Sorry to interrupt but as a neutral, i think its u who is being degrading just because u dont agree with his point of view. He didnt even say anything rude to u. I think u r anything but a realist lolz.
So what if he is from a communist country? He is living a better life than probably 99℅ of ur country ppl. Enjoy ur corrupt democracy n freedom n let him have his communism.


There are weird idiots here that boast of many things but are actually morons. Most Pakistanis are not like that. This forum is also full of false flaggers.

There is so much wrong with your post. Also you are not neutral. But we have been told to stay on topic.

What's your view on sales of the JF17?

Stick To the fi98887 topic and is the anyone admin monitoring this forum/thread ?
Pdf is not Bharat Raksha and should not go to that standard

If daft opinions cannot be challenged then we are already a Bharat Rasharkin forum. If you can't express an opinion about an aircraft sale without trolls showing up with uneducated opinions then what is the point of this place? I even gave Beast a scholarly declassified article about the state of South American airforces. But he gets to shout daft opinions without any substance.

 

[araz]

You resorted to calling him names and unnecessary use of associations like communism or red book. All just because he doesn't agree with your opinion. You are so ready to talk down on Chinese people and use psychological weapons to belittle and dehumanize Chinese. You have studied just enough history to know the little red book but not enough to know about communism or Chinese people you claim to.

Imagine if Chinese members talked about Islam and made fun of Pakistani members in such a way simply because opinions differ. In any case, most Pakistani members are Islamic if not all and most Chinese members are certainly not communist and unlikely to own the little red book which is these days more a historic artifact. If you really know history and are a realist you would also know at least this. If you are a realist you would also understand my point. But in truth you are simply overly proud of yourself.

You resort to those cheapening tones to reduce the other person's worth. The same to you would enrage you. This is all I'm saying. It's enough from me on this and I know you still will miss the point and tell me to grow up. Let me leave you with this to help your pride, you know just enough to think you are right but not anywhere near enough to know you are wrong. From a Neil Degrasse Tyson, a very wise man who has finger on the pulse of our time where western style prideful thinking is full if this "I am a realist and not those weak liberals blah blah" kind of tones. I get to abuse and insult you should lighten up and see how shit you are and so on. It is the philosophy of violence and conflict from pride... not from being realist or real student of history. You must be young and I know we were all like that at some point and sometimes in right circumstances we need that energy and righteousness. In this case you are simply angry he is against your opinion and you both have good points.

Have you got a contract to defend a person who has no credibility left? People here treat others based on the quality of their posts not by their nationalities. Beast's posts leave a lot to be desired. No one allows anyone to be racist but bull crap will be called as such.
I would suggest you concentrate on projecting your point of view rather than defending someone who cannot be defended. Last post on the topic.
A

What aboutism is not a valid argument. And I can have an opinion on whatever I want wherever I live. I am guessing you live overseas as well judging by your unironic use of the term "Niggas"

No worries

As I was saying.....I believe a western option will be taken by the Argentines.
Azerbaijan and Iraq are a more interesting question.

Only responding to the later part of your post . The US has always marketed its products aggressively. However, with the UK being a strategically in the AUKUS I doubt now is the time to rattle the UK. Also there maybe fears on the Argentinian's side of being sanctioned in case of a war with the UK. I still think the JFT stands a good chance of securing another order. Especially since the capabilities supplied in the price bracket along with the array of weapons will be unmatched. Also maintenance and running costs will be lower than the 16s
A

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Keysersoze and @serenity please revert back to thread. the a chinese member is not subject matter of this thread.
any such issues must be taken in GHQ if feeling is so strong.
if it was just a remark in one or two posts then no problem but there were multiple posts that were needless.

let's move on. no need to explain or clarify.

 

[Keysersoze]

Have you got a contract to defend a person who has no credibility left? People here treat others based on the quality of their posts not by their nationalities. Beast's posts leave a lot to be desired. No one allows anyone to be racist but bull crap will be called as such.
I would suggest you concentrate on projecting your point of view rather than defending someone who cannot be defended. Last post on the topic.
A

Only responding to the later part of your post . The US has always marketed its products aggressively. However, with the UK being a strategically in the AUKUS I doubt now is the time to rattle the UK. Also there maybe fears on the Argentinian's side of being sanctioned in case of a war with the UK. I still think the JFT stands a good chance of securing another order. Especially since the capabilities supplied in the price bracket along with the array of weapons will be unmatched. Also maintenance and running costs will be lower than the 16s
A

OK well the the UK is part of AUKUS. The purpose of AUKUS is to counter China. I don't think the UK would make that much of a fuss as they are not myopically focused on just the Falklands. The Argentines as I have stated many times before will rattle the sabre for domestic political points but at the same time have cut the military budget to nothing. The navy is a mess, the army degrading and the airforce almost non existent.
The JF17 might have a chance but if they are still looking at 5 other options I would suggest they are going to try to use interest in the JF17 to leverage a better deal for blk 50 f16s or alternatives such as the Kfir ( with a better deal this time) Since the Americans have a bit more flexibility with EDA and similar methods to reduce price they might accommodate the Argentines. The previous offer was for 36 F16s Orion and tanker aircraft. Sadly capability wise that will trump 12 Jf17s

 

[MastanKhan]

The thing clasping back jf-17 from being an export hit is its powerplant, unfortunately.

Hi,

Innocent Pakistanis---.

 

[araz]

OK well the the UK is part of AUKUS. The purpose of AUKUS is to counter China. I don't think the UK would make that much of a fuss as they are not myopically focused on just the Falklands. The Argentines as I have stated many times before will rattle the sabre for domestic political points but at the same time have cut the military budget to nothing. The navy is a mess, the army degrading and the airforce almost non existent.
The JF17 might have a chance but if they are still looking at 5 other options I would suggest they are going to try to use interest in the JF17 to leverage a better deal for blk 50 f16s or alternatives such as the Kfir ( with a better deal this time) Since the Americans have a bit more flexibility with EDA and similar methods to reduce price they might accommodate the Argentines. The previous offer was for 36 F16s Orion and tanker aircraft. Sadly capability wise that will trump 12 Jf17s

Costing will remain an issue. I agree the capabilities might be slightly better in some spheres, but the cost will remain an issue as I dont see the 16s being cheaper thanthe JFT to procure, run and maintain. The other question will be the weapons array which will be offered. I do not think the US will offer A2S weaponry justlike this was not offered to PAF. This could hamper any Argentinian future attacks. Lastly, as I have stated earlier the threat of sanctions in case of any misadventure remains ever present with any US product. I agree the case is very much open and if the US get serious about selling PAC/CATIC will lose out. The ball lies fairly and squarely in the Argentinian court.
A

 

[The Terminator]

You are the only one cant accept the reality Argentina wouldnt be getting F-16.... As long as Falkland issue still persists, F-16 is not possible.

Falkland is even more important than issue with Chile.

Not an issue. The Chinese has WS-13 ready. It just a matter of buyer preference.

Even the J-10 and J-20 are now using domestic Chinese engine. More or less tells u the direction we are heading.

J 20 or any other flanker using WS 10 Chinese engine wasn't that much big of a news. But now they have started to employ them in single engine J10 fighters tell us for real that the Chinese do have the confidence to use their local engines in single engine serial produced fighter jets. Their engines have matured and are reliable enough to put them in J-10s. That's a massive achievement.

That's why we have been hearing rumors of J-10Cs coming into PAF soon. May be PAF is now confident enough to induct fighters with Chinese engines as acquiring Al31 flanker engine in PAF wouldn't be that much easy for us due to India's Su-30MKIs utilizing the same engines