Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[Ahmet Pasha]

How will manufacturing work in this agreement?? Will Argentina also get a share of profits in future deals?

How will that effect PAC's share of profits??

 

[Basel]

View attachment 749104

@JamD how much would you be willing to bet that if there's a 100 jet order on the table (for both the Argentine Air Force and Navy), the PAF would sign off on a carrier version of the JF-17?

If Argentina wanted ACC version and ready to put money on it PAF should look into it, as we may be able to get training ACC of PLAN in future.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

If Argentina wanted ACC version and ready to put money on it PAF should look into it, as we may be able to get training ACC of PLAN in future.

Pakistan military is king of buying from Itwar bazar/Craigslist lmao

 

[Basel]

I am not sure. There just isn't enough room on the JF17 to carry all of that extra weight associated with carrier operation. It would be a really really short-legged aircraft able to carry very little payload.

To be ACC bird main issue will be reducing the weight and percentage of composites will go much higher, under carriage and wings will require modification for ACC ops, also a F-16 Block52+ type backbone will be needed. It will be different bird but a version for ACC is possible.

Pakistan military is king of buying from Itwar bazar/Craigslist lmao

China will not keep Liaoning ACC for long, as they will go for catapult launch systems, so a training ACC which can also work as fleet protector in open seas is good to have for PN.

 

[White Lion]

This article talked about possible integration of Israelis systems such as radar and missiles into Argentinian version of jf17

I think Pakistan would have opposition to this
Since Israel can give information to India for possibilities of electronic warfare

The article also states that Argentinean aircraft manufacturing facilities are far more advance than that of China and Pakistan hence they can develop a much more potent aircraft in the future. So far this is the most detailed article regarding the Argentinean procurement that has at least crossed my eyes. There are many things that have been highlighted out of which only one thing can be accepted to be true is that Argentina wants to own the JF-17 and develop it according to their own needs. China and Pakistan both have shown and optioned the JF-17 as tailored option for any air force that wishes to procure the aircraft. Hence repeatedly JF-17 has been highlighted with its design traits of being modular in design, easier to intergrade both hardware and software.

The question regarding integration of Israeli systems could be read in two ways. i.e
1) Just as comparison of the weapons China manufactures = any western manufacturer.
2) Procuring JF-17 frame and integrating a complete Israeli package. (Remember Kfir Block 60 was offered)
Not sure of how much similarity is there between Pakistani and Myanmar JF-17 as Pakistani JF-17 have a semi western package where as Myanmar has an all Chinese package. Same would be the case if Israeli package would be on board.
The only thing that comes to my mind is regarding design limitations and performance, however they might be different as well as the Engine would be different to that Pakistan uses.

Argentina renews talks with Tel Aviv for IAI Kfir Block-60

Argentina and Israel Aerospace industries (IAI) have resumed negotiations for the latter’s Kfir Block-60 multi-role fighter

quwa.org

Other then that it's a good
Deal one question though
If Argentina or another country manufactures it would Pakistan get royalties as being the original Co developers and owners of the design with China??

This would only be seen once the contract is made public or actual production of JF17 commences in Argentina. This could perhaps be the offsets offered.

View attachment 749104

@JamD how much would you be willing to bet that if there's a 100 jet order on the table (for both the Argentine Air Force and Navy), the PAF would sign off on a carrier version of the JF-17?

Did inform earlier that the JF-17 deal is for 100 + aircraft.

 

[White Lion]

To be ACC bird main issue will be reducing the weight and percentage of composites will go much higher, under carriage and wings will require modification for ACC ops, also a F-16 Block52+ type backbone will be needed. It will be different bird but a version for ACC is possible.

Its either reducing weight or increasing thrust. A powerful engine would do the trick along with structural changes you have mentioned.

 

[Basel]

Its either reducing weight or increasing thrust. A powerful engine would do the trick along with structural changes you have mentioned.

Both changes are usually needed, also over all strengthened airframe is needed too with STOL capability.

 

[Akh1112]

theres a reason Gripen-M is expected to cost twice as much as the Gripen-E.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

The article also states that Argentinean aircraft manufacturing facilities are far more advance than that of China and Pakistan hence they can develop a much more potent aircraft in the future. So far this is the most detailed article regarding the Argentinean procurement that has at least crossed my eyes. There are many things that have been highlighted out of which only one thing can be accepted to be true is that Argentina wants to own the JF-17 and develop it according to their own needs. China and Pakistan both have shown and optioned the JF-17 as tailored option for any air force that wishes to procure the aircraft. Hence repeatedly JF-17 has been highlighted with its design traits of being modular in design, easier to intergrade both hardware and software.

The question regarding integration of Israeli systems could be read in two ways. i.e
1) Just as comparison of the weapons China manufactures = any western manufacturer.
2) Procuring JF-17 frame and integrating a complete Israeli package. (Remember Kfir Block 60 was offered)
Not sure of how much similarity is there between Pakistani and Myanmar JF-17 as Pakistani JF-17 have a semi western package where as Myanmar has an all Chinese package. Same would be the case if Israeli package would be on board.
The only thing that comes to my mind is regarding design limitations and performance, however they might be different as well as the Engine would be different to that Pakistan uses.

Argentina renews talks with Tel Aviv for IAI Kfir Block-60

Argentina and Israel Aerospace industries (IAI) have resumed negotiations for the latter’s Kfir Block-60 multi-role fighter

quwa.org

This would only be seen once the contract is made public or actual production of JF17 commences in Argentina. This could perhaps be the offsets offered.

Did inform earlier that the JF-17 deal is for 100 + aircraft.

100+ for Argentina AF really bro?? That's huge man wooow

 

[siegecrossbow]

100+ for Argentina AF really bro?? That's huge man wooow

Even assuming that the 100+ engines are real:

1) Pakistan is also building block 3s, so a good number of them need RD-93s.
2) You usually need spare engines for fighter aircraft.

 

[SQ8]

I am not sure. There just isn't enough room on the JF17 to carry all of that extra weight associated with carrier operation. It would be a really really short-legged aircraft able to carry very little payload.

It is very unlikely that the Argentinians have any interest in a future aircraft carrier. Unfortunately, people assume that by mentioning Navy it automatically becomes a carrier aircraft. Their Super Es were/are fully land based and act in the same vein as Pakistan’s VPAs.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It is very unlikely that the Argentinians have any interest in a future aircraft carrier. Unfortunately, people assume that by mentioning Navy it automatically becomes a carrier aircraft. Their Super Es were/are fully land based and act in the same vein as Pakistan’s VPAs.

It's worth noting that they're likely taking the JF-17 seriously because, well, they have no other choice.

Sure they can probably get offers from Dassault, but China's probably more willing to play ball on a flexible loan or financing package. In this vein, Argentina has very similar issues to Pakistan.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

It's worth noting that they're likely taking the JF-17 seriously because, well, they have no other choice.

Sure they can probably get offers from Dassault, but China's probably more willing to play ball on a flexible loan or financing package. In this vein, Argentina has very similar issues to Pakistan.

I think right now we may be suffering from the same stigma Hyundai suffered from when it first made the Genesis sub brand i.e how could Hyundai make premium cars?

Now Genesis has really taken off. I myself am a proud owner of one.

Just what I feel. Some countries might feel that how could a jet made by Pakistan be effective?

Do such biases exist in the defence markets??

 

[ziaulislam]

It's worth noting that they're likely taking the JF-17 seriously because, well, they have no other choice.

Sure they can probably get offers from Dassault, but China's probably more willing to play ball on a flexible loan or financing package. In this vein, Argentina has very similar issues to Pakistan.

Doubt dassault will offer them anything they can afford
Its not worth for france loaning anything to argentina..they have bankrupt status that too at an expensive of close alley
Basically gripen, t-50 and jf17 are the only options
With rest being blocked..jf17 is only one left

 

[SQ8]

It's worth noting that they're likely taking the JF-17 seriously because, well, they have no other choice.

Sure they can probably get offers from Dassault, but China's probably more willing to play ball on a flexible loan or financing package. In this vein, Argentina has very similar issues to Pakistan.

They couldn’t afford the interest on the Rafale at their current stage - the Indians are privately smarting at the fleecing they are enduring for it.

The Kfir is a good jet but maxed at its capacity now so its a hobson’s choice for them but they do like the idea of being able to put their FMA infrastructure that is generally rotting away to good use.