EXCLUSIVE FIRST VIDEO & IMAGES: Here She Is! D63 Kolkata Destroyer With Indian Navy

[Penguin]

@Penguin @Dillinger Are you guys 100% sure that Barak-8 and Barak-1 are to be complimenting each other?

No

@[Because from what I've heard, Barak-8 itself can handle both long and short-range sea-skimming targets by itself, removing the need for a separate missile system with separate fire control and other equipment.

If a SRSAM is infrared homing or active radar homing, it wouldn't need seperate firecontrols, just data from a search and tracking radar i.e. MF Star.

@[I would think P-15 Delhi, after the planned SLEP, would get rid of the Barak-1 VLS (if Barak-8 goes insome other place and not there), and use the new CIWS (for which RFPs are out) in that place,
along with the other slots already housing AK-630M on that ship.

Don't let that fool you. Barak-1 itself IS a CIWS. I.e. there are gun based, missile based and gun-missile combination based CIWS. Close-in weapon system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (no no, don't whine about wiki to me)

I find it odd though that P15A reverts back to 2x2 AK630 config when this was dropped on P15. P15 has 48 Shtil and got a 32 more Barak 1 at the cost of 2 AK630. That's a good swap. Kolkata has 32 Barak-8 and 4 AK630. That's good enough for self protection but not when defending a group of ships. See Type 42 (granted Barak-8 is superior against missiles relative to Sea Dart)

Vertical Launch System (VLS) - an arrangement for launching guided missile weapons vertically from a prepackaged canister. This maximizes both weapon storage space and availability as well as minimizing complexity - the launch system is open to the sky, meaning that the weapons need not be moved or aligned prior to launch, relying instead on their onboard guidance to align them once they have left the launch system. Typically, these systems are used aboard naval vessels, where space is tightly constrained and complex systems (such as moving launchers or reloading rails) are difficult to maintain.
The U.S. Navy's current VLS system is the Mark 41 VLS. It consists of several components, including the launch tubes (called 'cells') which come in blocks of eight (2x4); a remote control console, and a status indicator panel, both of which are mounted elsewhere inside the ship. In addition, there are control computers for the system. Additional eight-cell modules can be added to the base system to produce installations with greater magazine size; at least one must be a 'system module' which contains the control systems for the cells. In addition, a special module can be installed of which four cells have been removed in favor of a built-in crane, allowing the ship to lift and load its own replacement canisters into the cells from alongside without requiring a ship or dock with a crane of its own. The crane cannot, however, handle all types of canister - the Standard SM-2 Block IV and the Tomahawk TLAM canisters are too heavy to be reloaded at sea using the built-in crane and must be reloaded in port.

What is your point?
I already discussed the strike down crane module. Mk41 is scalable but adding additional 8 cell modulese to a VLS 'farm'.
And yes, you do need some electronics to control the VLUs. SO WHAT?

There are two types of Mk. 41, differentiated by the length (or depth, depending on how you look at it) of the launching tubes. The VLS Strike can take the longest available canisters, allowing for longer (and hence longer range and greater payload) weapons. The VLS Tactical is shorter.

In addition, there a yet shorter versions called VLS Self Defence. Also there recently bacame available the Single Cell Launcher.
SO?

32 VLS yes but total barak 8 missiles carried is 64. 100 KM maybe helicopter. Everything else other than nagin matches up.

The Broadsword article indicates no missile are currently carried, just VLUs installed. The below-deck VLU reloading story still doesn't make ANY sense. It simply doesn't.

 

[Penguin]

Indian Navy To Open Search for Carrier Air Defense System | Defense News | defensenews.com

An Indian Navy official said the service has faced problems in the timely supply of spares from Russia for several of “their assets,” including submarines, and the lengthy delay in acquiring the carrier drove the decision to decline the Russian offer for Kashtan.

“Better options should be explored for getting weapons for the Russian-built carrier,” the official said.

A diplomat with the Russian Embassy here said the offer to mount the Kashtan system on the ship has always been open to the Indian Navy, but it never showed interest in receiving the system.

“The Indian Navy has yet to decide the weapon systems it wants to mount on the Russian carrier, nearly a decade after the deal was inked in 2004,” said Mahindra Singh, a retired Indian Army major general and defense analyst

The Vikramaditya will be fitted with 20mm and 30mm guns along with the air defense system, another Navy official said.

So, the question of how to arm Vikramaditya is not yet answered. This decision is consistent with the arming of Batch 2 Talwars with AK630 rather than Kashtan (which will likely also be installed on Vikki in the interim). IN is yet to decide on a new CIWS. Once they do, expect to see it on Talwar B2, Vikramaditya, and Kolkata. Which imho makes Barak-8 for Vikramaditya less likely (in addition to its relative tallness: a homing 3m SR missile and VLU is easier to place on the little available spaces, following the practice around the globe of light i.e. self defence only armament of carriers.)

Se also: Navy scouts for air defence options for INS Vikramaditya | The Indian Express


This (20-30mm) implies a GUN system but in effect doesn't rule out a combined gun/missile system. It does rule out the 35mm Millenium or a single 40mm of 57mm Bofors, twin 40mm Dardo or 76mm Oto Compact with Strales/Davide.
Tenders India, The Indian Government Tenders Information System

 

[Penguin]

I really think this says it all.

Thursday, July 15, 2010

The joint Israeli-Indian Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LR-SAM for India, designated Barak-8 in Israel) will undergo its first test-firing at India's Integrated Test Range before November, if sources are to be believed. LiveFist has learnt that the LR-SAM, when inducted, will be housed in four vertical launch units (VLUs), each housing eight missiles, on each of the three Project-15A destroyers and seven Project-17A stealth frigates, i.e, each of India's next generation warships will carry at least 32 LR-SAMs. The combat suites of both vessel classes will be built around the Elta EL/M-2248 MF-STAR.
...
The weapon system can engage 12 targets with 24 missiles.

Livefist: 07/01/2010 - 08/01/2010

 

[Dillinger]

Indian Navy To Open Search for Carrier Air Defense System | Defense News | defensenews.com

So, the question of how to arm Vikramaditya is not yet answered. This decision is consistent with the arming of Batch 2 Talwars with AK630 rather than Kashtan (which will likely also be installed on Vikki in the interim). IN is yet to decide on a new CIWS. Once they do, expect to see it on Talwar B2, Vikramaditya, and Kolkata. Which imho makes Barak-8 for Vikramaditya less likely (in addition to its relative tallness: a homing 3m SR missile and VLU is easier to place on the little available spaces, following the practice around the globe of light i.e. self defence only armament of carriers.)

Se also: Navy scouts for air defence options for INS Vikramaditya | The Indian Express


This (20-30mm) implies a GUN system but in effect doesn't rule out a combined gun/missile system. It does rule out the 35mm Millenium or a single 40mm of 57mm Bofors, twin 40mm Dardo or 76mm Oto Compact with Strales/Davide.
Tenders India, The Indian Government Tenders Information System

No STRALES and no AHEAD!

 

[Penguin]

NEW DELHI, December 24, 2013
Barak comes out of deep freeze
After remaining in deep freeze for five years due to an ongoing probe by the Central Bureau of Investigation, the Israeli Barak missiles have found favour with the Defence Ministry that cleared procurement proposals worth over Rs. 16,000 crore on Monday.

The proposal to procure 262 Barak I missiles for Rs. 880 crore was cleared by the DAC.

This has paved the way for the deployment of the 9 km range air defence missiles on India’s two aircraft carrier — the INS Virat, and the INS Vikramaditya — which at the moment is on its way to India from Russia. The Navy had been using these missiles but due to the suspension in the procurement process had been left with just 150.

Before arriving at the decision to give the go ahead for the advanced missile system, the Ministry of Defence had also weighed the opinion given by the Attorney General in the matter and that of the independent group it had constituted at the last DAC meet to take a final call on the deal.

Earlier, the procurement of the missiles had been put on hold after allegations of bribery in the deal had surfaced and the CBI had initiated a probe in 2006. With the case now in the final stages and the premier investigating agency due to file its closure report soon, the Ministry decided to go ahead with the deal.

Four major acquisitions for the Navy and the Army approved - The Hindu

 

[Penguin]

February 08, 2014
The LR-SAM, designated Barak 8 by IAI, when inducted, will be housed in four vertical launch units (VLUs), each housing eight missiles, on each of the three Project-15A destroyers, seven Project-17A stealth frigates and aircraft carrier Vikrant, i.e, each of India’s next-generation warships will carry at least 32 LR-SAMs. The combat suites of both vessel classes will be built around the Elta EL/M-2248 MF-STAR.

SP’s Exculsive - SP's Aviation
ISSUU - SP's Show News to Defexpo 2014 - Day 3 by SP Guide Publications Pvt Ltd (page 13)

Just to give an idea of the sizes. Barak -1 on the right, Barak-8 on the left. I can see 4 guys manhandle Barak 1 but not Barak-8.

 

[Gessler]

I really think this says it all.

Livefist: 07/01/2010 - 08/01/2010

 

[spectribution]

I really think this says it all.

Livefist: 07/01/2010 - 08/01/2010

That talks of VLS cells not extra rounds carried onboard a ship. Even INS Viraat carries extra rounds with it.

Arleigh Burke Flight II and before had a crane that could load it's replacement rounds weighing upto SM 2 MR. This ensured reloading could be done without a replenishment ship or in dock.

INS Kolkata has no crane but it is very much possible extra rounds are carried on board and when FRV is available these are reloaded at sea. 32 ready to fire VLS and another 16/32 carried on board. Regarding reload mechanism, not very sure but then again Barak 8 is pretty nifty, it requires no FCR, can be actively guided by MF STAR AESA radar.

Also Barak 8 can stop dead a P 800 class AShM. Currently very few such systems exist.

 

[spectribution]

That talks of VLS cells not extra rounds carried onboard a ship. Even INS Viraat carries extra rounds with it.

Arleigh Burke Flight II and before had a crane that could load it's replacement rounds weighing upto SM 2 MR. This ensured reloading could be done without a replenishment ship or in dock.

INS Kolkata has no crane but it is very much possible extra rounds are carried on board and when FRV is available these are reloaded at sea. 32 ready to fire VLS and another 16/32 carried on board. Regarding reload mechanism, not very sure but then again Barak 8 is pretty nifty, it requires no FCR, can be actively guided by MF STAR AESA radar.

Also Barak 8 can stop dead a P 800 class AShM. Currently very few such systems exist.

PS : Damn sure INS Kolkata carries atleast 48 Barak 8, the official at the L&T stall clearly mentioned 32 Barak 8 vls and 16 additional Barak 8.

 

[spectribution]

SP’s Exculsive - SP's Aviation
ISSUU - SP's Show News to Defexpo 2014 - Day 3 by SP Guide Publications Pvt Ltd (page 13)

Just to give an idea of the sizes. Barak -1 on the right, Barak-8 on the left. I can see 4 guys manhandle Barak 1 but not Barak-8.

Some more clarifications , the P 15A has sea king helicopters that can carry torpedoes and fire AShM out to 100Km.

This is what was meant in article.

 

[RPK]

This Picture taken on 30th March 2006 shows dressed up in colourful bunting, destroyer Kolkata sliding down the slipway of Mazagaon Dock in Mumbai on its launching, admist cheers and while hoisting the national flag on her forecastle. Photo: Vivek Bendre

INS Kolkata gets her name from the City of Joy, Kolkata. The crest of the ship depicts the 'Howrah Bridge' (background) and a leaping 'Bengal Tiger' (foreground), riding above blue and whit ocean waves. Photo: Vivek Bendre

A Magzaon dock worker inspects the INS Kolkata. Photo: Vivek Bendre

INS Kolkata is the first ship fitted with the MF Star rader system. Photo: Vivek Bendre

A Navy officer looks on as workers apply finishing touches to the INS Kolkata, the Indian Navy's largest distroyer, scheduled to be commissioned on August 16. Photo: Vivek Bendre

The entire anti-submarine weapons as well as sensors suite, fitted onboard, comprising indigenous rocket launchers. Photo: Vivek Bendre

A naval officer comes out of INS Kolkata which will be commissioned on 16th. The ship is manned by 30 officers and 330 sailors. Photo: Vivek Bendre

An indigenously built warship INS Kolkata is the lead ship of the Kolkata-class guided missile destroyer which will be commissioned on August 16. Photo courtesy: Indian Navy

 

[Echo_419]

This Picture taken on 30th March 2006 shows dressed up in colourful bunting, destroyer Kolkata sliding down the slipway of Mazagaon Dock in Mumbai on its launching, admist cheers and while hoisting the national flag on her forecastle. Photo: Vivek Bendre

INS Kolkata gets her name from the City of Joy, Kolkata. The crest of the ship depicts the 'Howrah Bridge' (background) and a leaping 'Bengal Tiger' (foreground), riding above blue and whit ocean waves. Photo: Vivek Bendre

A Magzaon dock worker inspects the INS Kolkata. Photo: Vivek Bendre

INS Kolkata is the first ship fitted with the MF Star rader system. Photo: Vivek Bendre

A Navy officer looks on as workers apply finishing touches to the INS Kolkata, the Indian Navy's largest distroyer, scheduled to be commissioned on August 16. Photo: Vivek Bendre

The entire anti-submarine weapons as well as sensors suite, fitted onboard, comprising indigenous rocket launchers. Photo: Vivek Bendre

A naval officer comes out of INS Kolkata which will be commissioned on 16th. The ship is manned by 30 officers and 330 sailors. Photo: Vivek Bendre

An indigenously built warship INS Kolkata is the lead ship of the Kolkata-class guided missile destroyer which will be commissioned on August 16. Photo courtesy: Indian Navy

Looks great,hope P-15B will be more smooth