Examining the impact of JF-17 Block 3 , Capability Enhancements for PAF

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It is simple looking at the various other planes in the market few Performance matrices will have to be improved for JF17 THUNDER Block 3

JF17 THUNDER Block 3​

• Fuel Capacity has to get closer to 10,000 Pounds (Present Capacity 5,000 pounds) we are a good 50% below par value with competetion
  
• Enginer Thrust has to improve closer to 90N (Present Lingering between 47N/83N) , the twin engine crafts have double the capacity to accelerate
  
• Speed has to be 2.0 Mach or better (Present 1.6-1.8 Mac) top speed aspect perhaps is an area we can certainly match with other fighter Jets

Even if we get close to 80% of these figures it would be a commendable Upgrade​

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

JF17 is essentially a multirole light aircraft.
And I personally believe that a twin engine medium multirole aircraft can be developed based on JF17 current design by doing some tinkering and conducting some studies. It might take around 5 years. Because we already have a design, we just have to configure it to a twin engine medium category. To achieve a 3 tiered air force having light, medium and air dominance aircraft, along with support platforms.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We really need Engine Manufacturing Company in Pakistan to work on improvements in performance on daily basis, long term planning which expands over 10-15 year range etc

Considering we have multiple Engine platform to review / examine and learn from
i.e F16 , JF-17 , F7PG , Mirage

I think we really have to view the Engine research areas with more indepth look
Perhaps the best way to tackle this area is by a new Company for Engine Research

• Engines for UAV
• Engines for Recon planes
• Engines for Light Planes
  
• Engines for High performance Defence Fighter Planes

We have weakness in term of Engine creation/Design work and unfortunately unless we start with some investment and research team to look into it we will still be stuck with seeking solutions purchase from outside

If in 2007 we had started a Engine research program by today 2018 , the research work would have delivered a locally manufactured Engine made in Pakistan for Prototype Testing

 

[araz]

Well , it is well known that JF17 is close very close to F16 so we can make indirect comparison with even more latest platform

Block 3 certainly is a conclusive stamp of approval

However I see logic that Airforces like

• Egypt
  
• Turkey (Can use it as secondary platform)
  
• Qatar
  
• Oman
  
• Indonesia
  
• Malaysia
  
• Few South American countries
• Central Asia
  
• Some eastern European countries
• South Africa

All of these could have 20-35 units of JF17 down the line from logical stand point of view

Is this your own effort. If so a good one. However you have said "clearly" or "we can see" without substantiating it. Where is the data to back it up. Most of the work is based on conjecture and is baseless. Your comparisons are thoughtless and dont take into account the weight of the fighter, the quality of engines, the maturity of the US DEFENCE INDUSTRY vs our infantile efforts. We have really done well to utilize our experience of Western platforms and piggy backing it on the Chinese avaition industry developments but our financial constraints and relative lack of experience is reflecting in our approach and philosophy. I think the fact remains that we will not be in a position to do a comparative analysis till the first prototype of block 3 flies and even then the specs may not be fully known. So there are a lot of known unknowns.
A

Since some items are not confirmed (KLJ-7A or Vixen 1000 Aesa radar, Spanish EW or Chinese EW, RD33 engine or WS-XX engine), therefore actual assessment of aircraft performance can not be determined. However whatever comes out should be better than F-16 block 52.

It maybe better in some parameters but will definitely lag behind in many others. Let us not get carried away here. JFT is a great effort from PLAAF and us. Probably it is amongst the first semi indegenous design from the Chinese(adapted from the Mig 33 design). So a lot of firsts and good ones at that. However to start comparing apples and oranges is unfair on the utility and design philosophy of the platform.
A

JF-17 is a decade late. Dont forget India is a decade ahead of us in terms of technology acquired.

Why is it a decade late? Do you honestly think either you or the Chinese were in a position to design this plane in the 80s or the 90s.?
A

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Since we are approaching the Block 3 now we should have full confidence to question the Physical performance characteristics of fighter Jet around which we have based our scope of Air defence

It was quite ok , for base model back in 2008 that we said it is a great initial phase

Simply releasing press statement here and there does not cut it anymore. Our Approach should be , here are the Top 10 platforms world wide , and where do we stand can we improve this platform and how.

We should have open and frank debate , on what we have attained in last 10-15 years , certainly the bench mark attained by inducting 100 JF17 Block 1/Block 2 fantastic work

But when Block 3 rolls into picture now we must really focus the comparison to the Top Tier platforms in market and see what we can do to make the JF17 better

1966-1971 -------> Flying tin cans not investing in aviation
1980-1990--------> Planners sleeping
1999 -------------> Sanctions
2000-2009 -------> We made a decision to invest in Local Platform JF17
2009- 2017-------->100 Block 1/ Block 2 , fighter Jets Joined Pakistan Airforce

Till this point no one questioned the place of Thunder in Internation arena becasue we were at Learning stage , we were doing the "first of every thing"

10 Year later now , we are at stage where Thunder has seen action

a) 10 years of Air Patrol
b) 10 years of active role in war against Terror or group operations
c) 10 years of active Air-Air , training / simulation work
d) 10 Years of active duty to protect airspace

Now , come 2018 and talk of JF17 Block 3, we can finally say now lets talk about Improvements to a already established platform !!!


I think after 10 years of success, the tag of just learning wears off and now we are one with the big boys !! One of the large players who have made 100+ Fighter Jets

• Logically , our focus now should be be "High Performance Enhancements" after 10 years of service

Block III : Proposed new Engine, New Radar , New Avionics , HUDs
Block IV : Scaled Up High Performance , Twin Engine SUPER JF17 (2-5% larger Thunder)

 

[YeBeWarned]

JF block 3 still has around 1.5 years before we can see some Images , or get some inside config .. what people here are forgetting that JF is light weight fighter , and its easily visible from the load out of Thunder and its empty weight ..what i really wish to see in JF , if not a new engine than a modified one , 2-3 more hard-points , AESA / HOBs /IRST and more composite materials .. with all that JF 3 will be good enough to take on any Fighter in IAF ( except Rafale ) ..

 

[Zibago]

AzadP buddy, I like you enough not to comment.

Please read between that line.

Good day all, Tay.

But between the lines there is blank space

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

From Hypothetical stand point the Block IV , SUPER THUNDER Upgrade would solve key issues

a) Higher Thrust , from Twin Engines , to provide greater acceleration matching performance
from Platform such as Rafale or Euro Fighter (Or bringing the Thunder in ball park)
b) We would be able to carry greater weapon's load , as The Super Hornet program
c) Twin Engine combine Thrust should be (83N x 2 )
e) Bigger Scalled up SUPER THUNDER , would also be able to carry more fuel up in air
similar to other 4.5th generation platforms
f) Larger Thunder , would also be raised up from ground , so we can fit Cruise missiles easily on the larger platform as well

 

[Taygibay]

But between the lines there is blank space

I didn't use the plural.

 

[Zibago]

I didn't use the plural.

Ok betweem the single non gender conformist line there is no space

 

[Taygibay]

I'd say non numeral conforming.
And so between becomes within?

Stop kidding, you got it, Tay.

 

[XDescendantX]

JF-17 block 3 won't be in production until 2019 or 2020.

Block 3 which won't be ready until 2019 or 2020 should be re-branded as Block 4. Why? Because PAF is building a new squadron of JF-17's for 2018-2019, right?

So it doesn't make sense to build a new squadron in 2018 with Block 2's when the newer JF-17B two-seat version exist. Why not build a single-seat version of the JF-17B to fill the gap for 2018-2019 & re-brand it as the Block 3?

 

[bananarepublic]

With a small economy and financial constraints an aerospace industry limited to only defense manufacturing is almost impossible unless private companies dont complete there is very little chance for a fully fledged aviation industry

 

[farhan_9909]

JFT III with

*Better engine (100KN)
*AESA
*All axis fbw
*More composite material in airframe
*better payload (6t)
*More weapon integration (ALCM,Ashm)

will be better than our Block 52

 

[denel]

JF17 is essentially a multirole light aircraft.
And I personally believe that a twin engine medium multirole aircraft can be developed based on JF17 current design by doing some tinkering and conducting some studies. It might take around 5 years. Because we already have a design, we just have to configure it to a twin engine medium category. To achieve a 3 tiered air force having light, medium and air dominance aircraft, along with support platforms.

COncept wise A-5 and even J-8 did the same using j-6 and j-7.