Ex-Lavi chief calls for new fighter, not $11 billion on F-35

[satishkumarcsc]

yes,india may not have much experience in manufacturing of engines,but india has a lot of expertise in avionics.the su-30mki,lca has indian avionics & even the proposed 5th gen FGPA,MCA will have indian avionics.
at least we could help them in the avionics sector...

Israelis are far ahead when it comes to avionics. They have better mission comps on their Sufas and better EW systems than even Americans. They just dont have the man power enough to design and construct an airframe. If the Kaveri-Snecma is a success then it will be a huge boon to the AMCA project. And as you know Israelis have access to almost most of the programs around the world.

 

[Luftwaffe]

iF Kaveri-Snecma is a success

How successful is it.

 

[Thomas]

I have two questions to you since ur an expert in military matters:

Firstly does this mean if any upgradation by the customer is to be done they need to know the source codes of the plane?? Please explain in layman terms as i am just an enthusiast without much technical knowledge.

So can it be deduced by this that the Israelis know the source codes of F-15 and F-16 ??

I have no idea if they have the source codes or not. I would lean towards them not having them however. Source codes are some of the most tightly held secrets. One reason Israel wants to install their own avionics in the F-35 is becuase we refuse to provide them source codes.

 

[khurasaan1]

Ex-Lavi chief calls for new fighter, not $11 billion on F-35​

Ex-Lavi program manager and minister of defense Moshe Arens writes in Haaretz today that Israel would be better off launching a joint development program with Russia and India to build a new fighter rather than spend $11 billion to buy 75 Lockheed Martin F-35s. See excerpt below:

Are there alternatives to swallowing our pride and shelling out $3 billion for 20 F-35s? (The original plan had been to acquire 75 aircraft, which would have brought the price above $11 billion, but that was too expensive. ) Before we make that commitment, a little intellectual effort should be invested in looking at other options.

Does Israel still have the technological capability to design a first-rate fighter aircraft? That needs to be examined in some depth. No doubt some of the capability that existed at the time of the Lavi project has been lost over the years, but as has been proved time and again, Israel has a world-class technological capability. Its success in unmanned aerial vehicles is only one of a number of examples.

If it turns out that the capability to design the IAF's next fighter aircraft does exist in Israel, where could we go from there? Not to the U.S. Congress in search of funding, because we would have to remind them that 27 years ago they were fools to invest $1 billion in the development of the Lavi that Israel decided it did not want. We would have to look for partners who are prepared to invest resources in such a project, who have the necessary technological capability, and who are not involved in the F-35 project.

Are there such candidates? In theory, yes. France, with a great aeronautical industry, chose not to participate in the F-35 project. India, with a considerable aeronautical capability and a meteorically growing economy, might be another candidate. And there is Russia. Perhaps none of them would be interested, and perhaps all of them would be. It's worth a try.

The Israelis are playing smart cuz they wanna learn the Indians and Russian secrets too...cuz they already know the US secrets i guess thats why they not so much enthusiast about them..
they r thinkng of very smart future planning...They wanna kill two birds with one stone

 

[somebozo]

Israel can join the LCA project and turn it into one hell of an awesome product. t

The Lavi at the last minute was pulled off from production being a direct competitor to F16 instead US offered F16 to israel. Israel still benefitted from Lavi R/D and recovered cost by selling designs to China.

 

[ptldM3]

I don not see this happening do to politics but it would be a dream to have Isarel as a partner since they have some experience building aircraft but most importantly Israeli avionics are considered as some of the finest in the world, but even so i doubt Israel would want to share it's avionics.

 

[jha]

^^ They will if we ask them to

 

[amalakas]

not many ...the tax they do end up paying is used up for their local needs , its not even enough to buy 2 F16 let alone 100 , F35 ...

Time for them to start working like all the other peopel in world instead of getting bail outs for last 80 years

You are clearly not serious are you ? There are about 6,500,000 jews in America that we know of, these are the ones interested in identifying themselves too, there are many more not accounted possibly raising the number to about 8 million !!!

in case you are not aware ...this is MORE than the jews in ISRAEL !!!

and you think they can not manage a billion in taxes ?? ?????

 

[amalakas]

I believe a possible Russo-israeli collaboration in a 5th generation fighter would be a very good thing.

I don't think the Russians would like the Israelis participating in PAK FA development though.

This would make sure information about the PAK FA leaking to the US almost certaintly

I think it would be best for both sides if the israelis could participate in the development of the single engine stealthy 5th generation fighter ----- which apparently the russians say doesn't exist and will not be developed--- I am pretty sure MiG would be interested in having such a partner in order to develop sais fighter version ...

 

[somebozo]

You are clearly not serious are you ? There are about 6,500,000 jews in America that we know of, these are the ones interested in identifying themselves too, there are many more not accounted possibly raising the number to about 8 million !!!

in case you are not aware ...this is MORE than the jews in ISRAEL !!!

and you think they can not manage a billion in taxes ?? ?????

A low of jews are well off with wealth aswell and private contributors to Israel.

 

[Tshering22]

Ex-Lavi chief calls for new fighter, not $11 billion on F-35​

Ex-Lavi program manager and minister of defense Moshe Arens writes in Haaretz today that Israel would be better off launching a joint development program with Russia and India to build a new fighter rather than spend $11 billion to buy 75 Lockheed Martin F-35s. See excerpt below:

Are there alternatives to swallowing our pride and shelling out $3 billion for 20 F-35s? (The original plan had been to acquire 75 aircraft, which would have brought the price above $11 billion, but that was too expensive. ) Before we make that commitment, a little intellectual effort should be invested in looking at other options.

Does Israel still have the technological capability to design a first-rate fighter aircraft? That needs to be examined in some depth. No doubt some of the capability that existed at the time of the Lavi project has been lost over the years, but as has been proved time and again, Israel has a world-class technological capability. Its success in unmanned aerial vehicles is only one of a number of examples.

If it turns out that the capability to design the IAF's next fighter aircraft does exist in Israel, where could we go from there? Not to the U.S. Congress in search of funding, because we would have to remind them that 27 years ago they were fools to invest $1 billion in the development of the Lavi that Israel decided it did not want. We would have to look for partners who are prepared to invest resources in such a project, who have the necessary technological capability, and who are not involved in the F-35 project.

Are there such candidates? In theory, yes. France, with a great aeronautical industry, chose not to participate in the F-35 project. India, with a considerable aeronautical capability and a meteorically growing economy, might be another candidate. And there is Russia. Perhaps none of them would be interested, and perhaps all of them would be. It's worth a try.

So..now who thinks that we must not consider Israelis in the AMCA program?

Many fellow Indians expressed objections about a Singapore-India-Israel partnership in AMCA program, whereas this chief doesn't even have problem with Russia!

If this can be pulled through I am telling you nothing is better than getting Israel on board, and Singapore should be given the option to join upto a certain date. If they don't want to, we're back to square one with the best combination that made MKI the beast of Asia: Israel-India-Russia combination of brains.

 

[BATMAN]

india has a lot of expertise in avionics.the su-30mki,lca has indian avionics & even the proposed 5th gen FGPA,MCA will have indian avionics.

It is BS and whole world knows it.

I don't want to start banging your unfounded claims on unrelevant thread... so just be happy and enjoy your day.

 

[BATMAN]

^^ They will if we ask them to

They will because you are a common enemy of Pakistan.
You togetherhave fought wars with Pakistan in past and now the current war eminating from Afghanistan... as well.

Why suddenly indian and Israel feels that the aircraft in their inventory are not good enough to meet their adversaries?

 

[Tshering22]

Its nothing but a pressure building tactic from Israeli side , as Americans are denying them the source code and access to many technologies involved in JSF-35 .so they are telling them tht if u are not going to share the technology then get ready to reduced orders of F35 .

Dude, this is the same thing I recommended on a thread in India Defence section. I was thinking that since US is denying Israelis the source codes to modify the fighter to their wish, we'd take the advantage and invite Israel to join AMCA project. They might have to wait for another 15 years, but with their participation, this can be reduced to 10 years since we've already completed wind tunnel testing of the design.

In return for their participation, they get the source codes, a fighter that can be assembled in Israel and modiefied as they wish and better strategic ties than ever.

I even said that if Singapore has a change in heart as well, it should be welcomed to join the AMCA as a tri-lateral program.

 

[Tshering22]

not many ...the tax they do end up paying is used up for their local needs , its not even enough to buy 2 F16 let alone 100 , F35 ...

Time for them to start working like all the other peopel in world instead of getting bail outs for last 80 years

Dude, they has one of the strongest economies in the region. The only place where they get "bail outs" is defense in most cases. You'd think that they're surviving because of economic aid only, that'd be damn wrong.