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Europe to India abandoned America at the hands of Russia

Well
1-The statement is highly incorrect
2-We shouldn't be poking our noses in affairs which don't even remotely relate to our foreign interests.

To an extent I agree.

Ukraine is important to Pakistan. Pakistan was the first ones to start buying Military technology from Ukraine followed by other countries.

Pakistan buys engines for its tanks and transport tankers which will be in jeopardy.
 
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To an extent I agree.

Ukraine is important to Pakistan. Pakistan was the first ones to start buying Military technology from Ukraine followed by other countries.

Pakistan buys engines for its tanks which will be in jeorpardy.
Just because we buy some components from Ukrain for one of our MBTs doesn't mean that we become an active party to a conflict that is not ours. Okey ,going by your logic, what if we take US's side and Russia stops RD-93s for JFT or US halts its military modernization plan for Pakistan if we take the Russia's?
 
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Just because we buy some components from Ukrain for one of our MBTs doesn't mean that we become an active party to a conflict that is not ours. Okey ,going by your logic, what if we take US's side and Russia stops RD-93s for JFT or US halts its military modernization plan for Pakistan if we take the Russia's?

In this sense, US bought hundreds of Mi17 helicopters, and other military equipment, it couldnot stop Russian aggression and the start of New Cold War NCW. US and Russia are enemies by all regards in Geo-Politics of world.

Pakistan has to support one party or other. So if the case is that Pakistan bought some components from Ukraine it should not support Ukraine. Pakistan were the first most customers to kick start Ukrainian Defence Industry for export purposes, which will stop when Russia invades Ukraine. Pakistan apart from MBTs, it bought IL78s transport planes for PAF, Radars and other lots of Military equipment. A number of Ukrainian companies are very interested in building power plants, pipelines, bridges and railways in Pakistan.

RD-93 cannot be cancelled since its a Russia-China business deal first. Russia is welcomed to do it, that is why Pakistanis never committed to Russia wholly in Military equipment without CBMs, that is precisely Pakistan cancelled J10b that had Russian engines , that is precisely the JF17s delays are accepted and F16s are being inducted.

Do you know unlike Russia, Ukraine always continued to supply military and defence equipment to Pakistan. Even fanatical Putin cancelled visit to Pakistan.

Support US, Support Ukraine !!
 
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Pakistan has to support one party or other.

This is where you are wrong. You don't need to choose sides. Because, you don't want to get in the way of two bull elephants fighting. Best policy is make quiet statements, nod heads and when matters cool, start doing business with both sides.
 
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This is where you are wrong. You don't need to choose sides. Because, you don't want to get in the way of two bull elephants fighting. Best policy is make quiet statements, nod heads and when matters cool, start doing business with both sides.

Surya, then why you do this, contradicting yourself, India is not a superpower , you know:

India supports Russia

Russian interests in Ukraine “legitimate”- Shivshankar Menon | Russia & India Report

India’s National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon described the Russian interests in Ukraine as “legitimate,” a remark that will definitely not go down well with the West.

“As far as we are concerned, we are watching what is happening in the Ukraine with some concern,” Menon said in New Delhi on March 6. “We would hope that whatever internal issues there are within Ukraine are settled peacefully and that the broader issues of reconciling the various interests involved, and there are after all legitimate Russian and other interests involved, are discussed, negotiated, and that there is a satisfactory resolution to them. But more than that at this stage when everything is still fluid, I do not think we can tell you.”

Less than four hours after this statement, the Indian Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) came up with a formal reaction on the Ukraine crisis. Its statement is reproduced below in its entirety: “India has been closely following the recent events in Ukraine, which include the tragic loss of several innocent lives and a change in Government. We have been concerned at the subsequent escalation of tension, especially in view of the presence of more than 5000 Indian nationals, including about 4000 students, in different parts of Ukraine. India welcomes recent efforts at reducing the tension and hopes that a solution to Ukraine’s internal differences is found in a manner that meets the aspirations of all sections of Ukraine’s population. It would be important, in this context, for a legitimate democratic process to find full expression through free and fair elections that provide for an inclusive society. India calls for sincere and sustained diplomatic efforts to ensure that issues between Ukraine and its neighbouring countries are resolved through constructive dialogue.”

Clearly, one can see two different nuances in the two Indian reactions on Ukraine.

The official MEA statement significantly eschews the very mention of Russia and thus takes no position on the ongoing Ukraine crisis. It talks about the Indian interests in Ukraine and makes a clichéd call for resolving the issue through “sustained diplomatic efforts”. The MEA statement does not make it clear on whose side India is in the Ukraine conflict.

The last line of the MEA statement that “India calls for sincere and sustained diplomatic efforts to ensure that issues between Ukraine and its neighbouring countries are resolved through constructive dialogue,” does imply that India would not be silent if the West were to treat Russia like Iran and North Korea by imposing a tough sanctions regime on Moscow. But it falls short of expressly saying so.

The NSA’s remarks, on the contrary, make it clear that India supports Russia as it finds Russian interests in Ukraine are “legitimate”.

But it is the NSA’s reaction rather than the official Indian statement that the West and Russia should be concerned with. Menon’s remarks clearly show that India has not forsaken Russia and will not do so.

The writer is a New Delhi-based strategic analyst who tweets @Kishkindha
 
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Surya, then why you do this, contradicting yourself, India is not a superpower , you know:

India supports Russia

Russian interests in Ukraine “legitimate”- Shivshankar Menon | Russia & India Report

India’s National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon described the Russian interests in Ukraine as “legitimate,” a remark that will definitely not go down well with the West.

“As far as we are concerned, we are watching what is happening in the Ukraine with some concern,” Menon said in New Delhi on March 6. “We would hope that whatever internal issues there are within Ukraine are settled peacefully and that the broader issues of reconciling the various interests involved, and there are after all legitimate Russian and other interests involved, are discussed, negotiated, and that there is a satisfactory resolution to them. But more than that at this stage when everything is still fluid, I do not think we can tell you.”

Less than four hours after this statement, the Indian Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) came up with a formal reaction on the Ukraine crisis. Its statement is reproduced below in its entirety: “India has been closely following the recent events in Ukraine, which include the tragic loss of several innocent lives and a change in Government. We have been concerned at the subsequent escalation of tension, especially in view of the presence of more than 5000 Indian nationals, including about 4000 students, in different parts of Ukraine. India welcomes recent efforts at reducing the tension and hopes that a solution to Ukraine’s internal differences is found in a manner that meets the aspirations of all sections of Ukraine’s population. It would be important, in this context, for a legitimate democratic process to find full expression through free and fair elections that provide for an inclusive society. India calls for sincere and sustained diplomatic efforts to ensure that issues between Ukraine and its neighbouring countries are resolved through constructive dialogue.”

Clearly, one can see two different nuances in the two Indian reactions on Ukraine.

The official MEA statement significantly eschews the very mention of Russia and thus takes no position on the ongoing Ukraine crisis. It talks about the Indian interests in Ukraine and makes a clichéd call for resolving the issue through “sustained diplomatic efforts”. The MEA statement does not make it clear on whose side India is in the Ukraine conflict.

The last line of the MEA statement that “India calls for sincere and sustained diplomatic efforts to ensure that issues between Ukraine and its neighbouring countries are resolved through constructive dialogue,” does imply that India would not be silent if the West were to treat Russia like Iran and North Korea by imposing a tough sanctions regime on Moscow. But it falls short of expressly saying so.

The NSA’s remarks, on the contrary, make it clear that India supports Russia as it finds Russian interests in Ukraine are “legitimate”.

But it is the NSA’s reaction rather than the official Indian statement that the West and Russia should be concerned with. Menon’s remarks clearly show that India has not forsaken Russia and will not do so.

The writer is a New Delhi-based strategic analyst who tweets @Kishkindha

No. I am not suggesting we have any interest in the Ukraine scenario. Nor do we have any influence in the current situation.

I said, make small noises. The official stand of the GoI, is what the MEA statement reads out. In that, like the author says, we are not taking sides. We are being neutral.

But, what the NSA said is important from a future course of action. It very clearly says, we are as of now neutral, but, we understand the Russian point of view.

At the end of the day, we need to work with Europe, USA and the Russians. Its summer now. Come winter, the upper hand will be with the Russians. Now, if they both smile and get along, we get caught and get targetted by the side which we antagonised.
 
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No. I am not suggesting we have any interest in the Ukraine scenario. Nor do we have any influence in the current situation.

I said, make small noises. The official stand of the GoI, is what the MEA statement reads out. In that, like the author says, we are not taking sides. We are being neutral.

But, what the NSA said is important from a future course of action. It very clearly says, we are as of now neutral, but, we understand the Russian point of view.

At the end of the day, we need to work with Europe, USA and the Russians. Its summer now. Come winter, the upper hand will be with the Russians. Now, if they both smile and get along, we get caught and get targetted by the side which we antagonised.

So why not Indian Government come out in open, and give an understandable ''neutral'' point of view towards the Americans too. ???? The Indians support Russia, and make a small noise, why not Indians come out and do same that American and European interests in Ukraine are LEGITIMATE. The BALANCING ACT.
 
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So why not Indian Government come out in open, and give an understandable ''neutral'' point of view towards the Americans too. ???? The Indians support Russia, and make a small noise, why not Indians come out and do same that American and European interests in Ukraine are LEGITIMATE. The BALANCING ACT.
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nuff said
 
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So why not Indian Government come out in open, and give an understandable ''neutral'' point of view towards the Americans too. ???? The Indians support Russia, and make a small noise, why not Indians come out and do same that American and European interests in Ukraine are LEGITIMATE. The BALANCING ACT.

Because, the 'official' Indian stance, my dear friend is neutral. When we are 'officially' neutral, what more is there to say? The NSA, like I mentioned is not the 'official' stance. Hope you understand the difference :)

On a different note, are you the same AsianUnion from the other pakistani forum? Used to be a member there. I see @pakeye and @pakdefender also here. I distinctly, remember them being on the other forum along with @waz . Sometimes @RazPaK reminds me of a much calmer version of a chap called disaster or something who used to be there. :D That should says something.
 
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Russia Threatens To Abandon The U.S. Dollar And Start Dumping U.S. Debt

Michael Snyder
Economic Collapse
March 5, 2014

The Obama administration and the hotheads in Congress are threatening to hit Russia with “economic sanctions” for moving troops into Crimea. Yes, those sanctions would sting a little bit, but what our politicians should be made aware of is the fact that Russian officials are promising “to respond” if economic sanctions are imposed on them. As you will read about below, one top Kremlin adviser is even suggesting that Russia could abandon the U.S. dollar and start dumping U.S. debt. In addition, he is also suggesting that if sanctions are imposed that Russian companies would not repay the debts that they owe U.S. banks. Needless to say, Russia could do far more economic damage to the United States than the United States could do to Russia. The U.S. financial system relies on the fact that the rest of the planet is going to use our currency to trade with one another and lend gigantic piles of it back to us at super low interest rates. If the rest of the world starts changing their behavior, we are going to be in a massive amount of trouble. Those that believe that the United States is “economically independent” are being quite delusional.

In order for U.S. economic sanctions against Russia to be effective, Europe would also have to get on board.

But that simply is not going to happen.

As I noted yesterday, Russia is the largest exporter of natural gas on the planet. And Russia is also Europe’s largest supplier of energy.

There is no way that Europe could risk having Russia cut off the gas, especially considering the economic condition that Europe is currently in.

To get an idea of just how incredibly dependent the rest of Europe is on Russian natural gas, check out the chart in this article. A whole bunch of European nations get more than half their natural gas from Russia.

And according to the Telegraph, even the UK has already completely ruled out economic sanctions…

Europe would be pushed back into recession, Russia into financial meltdown. This is not the sort of self harm Europe is prepared to contemplate right now. Indeed, thanks to the indiscretion of a UK official, who was snapped going into Downing Street with his briefing documents on display for all the world to see, we know this to be the case. Trade and financial sanctions have already been ruled out.

So the U.S. can do whatever it wants, but Europe is not going to be any help. Perhaps Canada will stand with the U.S., but that will be about it.

On the flip side, the Russian Foreign Ministry is promising “to respond” if the United States does impose economic sanctions…

Russia said on Tuesday that it would retaliate if the United States imposed sanctions over Moscow’s actions in Ukraine.

We will have to respond,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said in a statement. “As always in such situations, provoked by rash and irresponsible actions by Washington, we stress: this is not our choice.”

So what would the response look like?

Lukashevich did not say, but top Kremlin adviser Sergei Glazyev is suggesting that Russia could abandon the U.S. dollar and refuse to pay back loans to U.S. banks…

“In the instance of sanctions being applied to stated institutions, we will have to declare the impossibility of returning those loans which were given to Russian institutions by U.S. banks,” RIA quoted Glazyev as saying.

“We will have to move into other currencies, create our own settlement system.”

He added: “We have excellent trade and economic relations with our partners in the east and south and we will find a way to reduce to nothing our financial dependence on the United States but even get out of the sanctions with a big profit to ourselves.”

Glazyev also stated that Russia could start dumping U.S. debt and encourage other nations to start doing the same. The following comes from a Russian news source

“We hold a decent amount of treasury bonds – more than $200 billion – and if the United States dares to freeze accounts of Russian businesses and citizens, we can no longer view America as a reliable partner,” he said. “We will encourage everybody to dump US Treasury bonds, get rid of dollars as an unreliable currency and leave the US market.

Clearly Russian officials understand the economic leverage that they potentially have. In fact, Glazyev seems fully convinced that Russia could cause “a crash for the financial system of the United States”

“An attempt to announce sanctions would end in a crash for the financial system of the United States, which would cause the end of the domination of the United States in the global financial system.”

On that last point Glazyev is perhaps overstating things.

On their own, the Russians could do a considerable amount of damage to the U.S. financial system, but I doubt that they could completely crash it.

However, if much of the rest of the world started following Russia’s lead, then things could get very interesting.

Just yesterday, I wrote about how China has chosen to publicly stand in agreement with Russia on the Ukrainian crisis.

If China also decided to abandon the U.S. dollar and start dumping U.S. debt, it would be an absolute nightmare for the U.S. financial system.

And keep in mind that the Chinese were already starting to dump a bit of U.S. debt even before this latest crisis. In fact, China dumped nearly 50 billion dollars of U.S. debt in December alone.

The only way that the current bubble of debt-fueled false prosperity in the U.S. can continue is if the rest of the world continues to lend us trillions of dollars at ridiculously low interest rates that are way below the real rate of inflation.

If the rest of the world stops behaving in such an irrational manner, interest rates on U.S. government debt would rise dramatically and that would also mean that interest rates on virtually all other loans throughout our financial system would rise dramatically.

And if that happened, it would be a complete and utter nightmare for our economy.

Unfortunately, most Americans have no understanding of these things. They just assume that we are “the greatest economy in the world” and that nothing is ever going to threaten that.

Well, the truth is that we are rapidly approaching a “turning point”, and after this bubble of false prosperity pops things will never be the same in the United States again​
 
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Surya, then why you do this, contradicting yourself, India is not a superpower , you know:

India supports Russia

Russian interests in Ukraine “legitimate”- Shivshankar Menon | Russia & India Report

India’s National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon described the Russian interests in Ukraine as “legitimate,” a remark that will definitely not go down well with the West.

“As far as we are concerned, we are watching what is happening in the Ukraine with some concern,” Menon said in New Delhi on March 6. “We would hope that whatever internal issues there are within Ukraine are settled peacefully and that the broader issues of reconciling the various interests involved, and there are after all legitimate Russian and other interests involved, are discussed, negotiated, and that there is a satisfactory resolution to them. But more than that at this stage when everything is still fluid, I do not think we can tell you.”

Less than four hours after this statement, the Indian Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) came up with a formal reaction on the Ukraine crisis. Its statement is reproduced below in its entirety: “India has been closely following the recent events in Ukraine, which include the tragic loss of several innocent lives and a change in Government. We have been concerned at the subsequent escalation of tension, especially in view of the presence of more than 5000 Indian nationals, including about 4000 students, in different parts of Ukraine. India welcomes recent efforts at reducing the tension and hopes that a solution to Ukraine’s internal differences is found in a manner that meets the aspirations of all sections of Ukraine’s population. It would be important, in this context, for a legitimate democratic process to find full expression through free and fair elections that provide for an inclusive society. India calls for sincere and sustained diplomatic efforts to ensure that issues between Ukraine and its neighbouring countries are resolved through constructive dialogue.”

Clearly, one can see two different nuances in the two Indian reactions on Ukraine.

The official MEA statement significantly eschews the very mention of Russia and thus takes no position on the ongoing Ukraine crisis. It talks about the Indian interests in Ukraine and makes a clichéd call for resolving the issue through “sustained diplomatic efforts”. The MEA statement does not make it clear on whose side India is in the Ukraine conflict.

The last line of the MEA statement that “India calls for sincere and sustained diplomatic efforts to ensure that issues between Ukraine and its neighbouring countries are resolved through constructive dialogue,” does imply that India would not be silent if the West were to treat Russia like Iran and North Korea by imposing a tough sanctions regime on Moscow. But it falls short of expressly saying so.

The NSA’s remarks, on the contrary, make it clear that India supports Russia as it finds Russian interests in Ukraine are “legitimate”.

But it is the NSA’s reaction rather than the official Indian statement that the West and Russia should be concerned with. Menon’s remarks clearly show that India has not forsaken Russia and will not do so.

The writer is a New Delhi-based strategic analyst who tweets @Kishkindha

Oh my friend you dont need to compare India and Pakistan.I dont know the use of this thread.But if it is serious then this the point.Till now only two countries give tepid support to Russia .India and China.All others are either neutral or side with US nad its allies.Its about power.You are right India is not a superpower.But we can do certain things which some other countries cant do.It is about influence and power.Even if we are not a superpower still we can control our foreign policy independently and are able to stand up against most powerful country and its allies.
 
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