Erdogan's adviser - Turkey as a state is a non-Muslim country

[dani92]

Where are the supporters of ummah chumma group. Who glorified erdogan into some sort of a messiah who would install Islam throughout the world.
He was more popular here in Pakistan then in Turkey based on fake social media and his fake accounts of being so so much Islamic.
Pakistanis as a nation need to change their attitude.

The Turks themselves mocked Pakistanis for their love of erdogan. They said no wonder why Pakistan is such a backward country. Also this erdogan have a lot of fans and followers in Arab countries I hope someone can send them to live with erdogan.

 

[Longhorn]

Or, maybe it's an idea whose time hasn't come yet... humans have a propensity of carving golden calves ... so definitely a system that is based on greed and shows greener pastures with a possibility of achieving them in one's lifetime or die trying seems more plausible. But that doesn't mean an alternative doesn't exist... it rather means people won't open their eyes to the possibility until the bubble pops for one last time and for that to happen it must be inflated to it's maximum. I mean people really want to see what's on the other side ... they will and it will take time.

You've had 1400+ hundred years. How long do you want?
What Islam essentially is is a system of capitalism with a social conscience and most people are fine with that. The problem is the fascistic side of it, where a culture or belief is enforced on the pain of death or physical punishment or even fear of the hereafter, rather than merely advocated as an ideal.
If this isn't addressed, and I don't say this with any kind of pleasure, Islam will implode from within as people become more educated and are unwilling to accept things on heresay. This is already happening. We need to take a long hard look at ourselves and come up with a doctrine that satisfies Islamic moral values while at the same time takes into consideration people's needs and aspirations.
To quote Einstein: your situation is the product of your thinking, if you want to change your situation, change your thinking.

 

[Musalman]

Dr.. Yassin Aktay @ yaktay Advisor to the President of the Turkish Justice and Development Party: "Turkey as a state is not a Muslim or Christian or anything, is neutral to religions".

https://twitter.com/x/status/1142109042065780737

So??????

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

You've had 1400+ hundred years. How long do you want?
What Islam essentially is is a system of capitalism with a social conscience and most people are fine with that. The problem is the fascistic side of it, where a culture or belief is enforced on the pain of death or physical punishment or even fear of the hereafter, rather than merely advocated as an ideal.
If this isn't addressed, and I don't say this with any kind of pleasure, Islam will implode from within as people become more educated and are unwilling to accept things on heresay. This is already happening. We need to take a long hard look at ourselves and come up with a doctrine that satisfies Islamic moral values while at the same time takes into consideration people's needs and aspirations.
To quote Einstein: your situation is the product of your thinking, if you want to change your situation, change your thinking.

What you have said above is sadly the crux of the problem... kind of like Rabbinical Islam... pick and choose... though Qur'an says you'll not see victory or success until you fully immerse yourself in Islam. Islam is still ascendant after 1400 years but not because of current crop of Muslims... even in the beginning Muslims were neither rich nor scientifically most advanced though their were victorious and set forth such a successful model which continues to thrive inspite of what Muslims of today have become. I see people of every background coming and joining Islam yet those who live in predominantly Muslim countries on western ideals fail and on both Islam and western idealism. Not understanding either completely a kind of a hybrid generation that is neither here nor there while having strong opinions... what changed? Turkey a thoroughly secular state spending 3 generations under the banner of secularism now returning to Islam ... women who were seemingly freed of scarves returning and wearing them proudly... Egypt where 30 or 40 years ago women wore skirts today completely shunning them you can compare campus pictures of then and now and see the difference yet the state remains utterly secular and militantly anti Islam. What is happening instead is a more fascistic secular group in these countries is being exposed instead who would kill masses for it's ideals not the other way round.

 

[Lincoln]

He's dead. Life goes on. Countries change.

Isn't Jinnah dead as well? Does that make his ideology, policies dead? Does that make two-nation theory dead. Good on Turkey for keeping the dream of Kemal Atatürk alive, unlike us who cannot create a simple state that Jinnah wanted to see.

This is the issue with Pakistanis, its all about themselves and never can see it from perspective of the others.

WRONG!!! Zionist-America is tangled in a full blown trade war with China because China and Russia are challenging the Zionist-American hegemony in the Pacific, in the Middle East and in Eastern Europe. It is Zionist-America which encroached in Eastern Europe despite promises (more like lies) that NATO would not "move an inch toward the East" and yet today NATO has moved on Russia's doorstep in the Baltics and in Ukraine. Similarly Zionist-American hegemony encroaches in the Pacific where China's vital shipping lanes are threatened by Zionist-Western navies (America, Britain & Australia). Zionist-America is also arming India to the teeth (in the process making a killing selling India weapons), in order set India up as a punching bag when war breaks out against China. Zionist-America also avtively supports Taiwan, not because it is sympathetic toward the Taiwanese, rather because it seeks to undermine China's growth and dominance in the region.

Russia and China are challenging Zionist-America because they seek to do trade on an open, free and fair market. Whereas Zionist-America is threatening Europe to not to buy Russian Oil & Gas, which is cheaper to supply. Instead wants Europe to buy U.S LNG which far more expensive to procure. And when countries exercize their freedom to choose to do trade with whomever they wish, they are threatened by Zionist-America with Economic War. Capitalism has allowed Zionism to dominate and subjugate the rest of the world to it's will, because it is a tool of the Zionist designed for this very purpose.

Lol, wtf you mean wrong. Holy shit, I write a one liner about China and USA and you reply a huge paragraph which goes on to Zionism, China, Russia, Capitalism, USA, Socialism, Jews. Wtf are you on about kid.

 

[Timur]

The Turks themselves mocked Pakistanis

Turkey has many different ppl and many of them are no Turkic like kurds arabs laz Çerkez bosnians Africans

Than you have Christians jews Muslims jesidi and many seculars

What should I write about vegan ppl and green peace? So many different ppl with different minds and surely there are asholes without manner mocking others who have good intentions and feelings towards us

 

[Numerous]

Isn't Jinnah dead as well? Does that make his ideology, policies dead? Does that make two-nation theory dead. Good on Turkey for keeping the dream of Kemal Atatürk alive, unlike us who cannot create a simple state that Jinnah wanted to see.

This is the issue with Pakistanis, its all about themselves and never can see it from perspective of the others.

Yes he's dead too and we're not obliged to follow his vision. He is not a prophet of God where it becomes compulsory to carry out the state he envisioned (whatever that was). People still haven't figured out whether he wanted secularism or whether he wanted Islam implemented in the state, with each side throwing forward their own arguments.

There is no issue in what I said other than it seems you disagree with it.

You've had 1400+ hundred years. How long do you want?
What Islam essentially is is a system of capitalism with a social conscience and most people are fine with that. The problem is the fascistic side of it, where a culture or belief is enforced on the pain of death or physical punishment or even fear of the hereafter, rather than merely advocated as an ideal.
If this isn't addressed, and I don't say this with any kind of pleasure, Islam will implode from within as people become more educated and are unwilling to accept things on heresay. This is already happening. We need to take a long hard look at ourselves and come up with a doctrine that satisfies Islamic moral values while at the same time takes into consideration people's needs and aspirations.
To quote Einstein: your situation is the product of your thinking, if you want to change your situation, change your thinking.

You think your own man made system will be superior to a system devised by Allah?

Although you type like an ex-Muslim seeing as you're openly attacking parts of Islam such as the hereafter, so I wouldn't be surprised if you do.

 

[Longhorn]

Yes he's dead too and we're not obliged to follow his vision. He is not a prophet of God where it becomes compulsory to carry out the state he envisioned (whatever that was). People still haven't figured out whether he wanted secularism or whether he wanted Islam implemented in the state, with each side throwing forward their own arguments.

There is no issue in what I said other than it seems you disagree with it.



You think your own man made system will be superior to a system devised by Allah?

Although you type like an ex-Muslim seeing as you're openly attacking parts of Islam such as the hereafter, so I wouldn't be surprised if you do.

The trouble with the system devised by Allah is that it is implemented by morons. So unless he comes down himself and implements it himself, or sends another Prophet, things aren't going to change very much.
And please don't cast aspersions on my faith when it is patently obvious that Islam has been hijacked and distorted beyond recognition to suit the agendas of various groups. Islam has a long and inglorious tradition of labelling people who differ from the received wisdom as unbelievers ( Mansoor Hallaj and Allama Iqbal come to mind off the top of my head) in fact it is one of the main reasons that is Islam is in the mess that it is. Critical thought and renewal must be encouraged in any philosophy or it will wither on the vine but what you and people like you seemingly prefer is an echo chamber where your own biases and prejudices are confirmed rather than challenged, debated and refreshed. Islam will not flourish and progress until freedom of thought and expression is encouraged rather than shut down and silenced through fear and condemnation.

 

[Lincoln]

Yes he's dead too and we're not obliged to follow his vision. He is not a prophet of God where it becomes compulsory to carry out the state he envisioned (whatever that was). People still haven't figured out whether he wanted secularism or whether he wanted Islam implemented in the state, with each side throwing forward their own arguments.

There is no issue in what I said other than it seems you disagree with it.



You think your own man made system will be superior to a system devised by Allah?

Although you type like an ex-Muslim seeing as you're openly attacking parts of Islam such as the hereafter, so I wouldn't be surprised if you do.

Your brain is dead, nothing else.

 

[Numerous]

The trouble with the system devised by Allah is that it is implemented by morons. So unless he comes down himself and implements it himself, or sends another Prophet, things aren't going to change very much.
And please don't cast aspersions on my faith when it is patently obvious that Islam has been hijacked and distorted beyond recognition to suit the agendas of various groups. Islam has a long and inglorious tradition of labelling people who differ from the received wisdom as unbelievers ( Mansoor Hallaj and Allama Iqbal come to mind off the top of my head) in fact it is one of the main reasons that is Islam is in the mess that it is. Critical thought and renewal must be encouraged in any philosophy or it will wither on the vine but what you and people like you seemingly prefer is an echo chamber where your own biases and prejudices are confirmed rather than challenged, debated and refreshed. Islam will not flourish and progress until freedom of thought and expression is encouraged rather than shut down and silenced through fear and condemnation.

Look at the way you speak when you talk about Allah "so unless He comes down himself and implements it himself...". Talk with respect if you are actually Muslim.

Critical thought does not equal attacking parts of Islam. Anyone who does do that, what else do you expect us to label them? Anyone who does that isn't one of us.

No people like me live far outside an echo chamber. I can easily say that I have a far open mind than the majority of secularists on this forum.

People like you will happily attack under Islam under the guise of the "critical thinking" but then you try to label others as being brainwashed or living in an echo chamber because they point out the obvious flaws in your thinking.

The colonisers left your country but they never left your mind.

Your brain is dead, nothing else.

No, you have no argument so you resort to insults. Typical secularist.

If I agreed with you, you would've been calling me a genius just for agreeing lol.

 

[Lincoln]

Look at the way you speak when you talk about Allah "so unless He comes down himself and implements it himself...". Talk with respect if you are actually Muslim.

Critical thought does not equal attacking parts of Islam. Anyone who does do that, what else do you expect us to label them? Anyone who does that isn't one of us.

No people like me live far outside an echo chamber. I can easily say that I have a far open mind than the majority of secularists on this forum.

People like you will happily attack under Islam under the guise of the "critical thinking" but then you try to label others as being brainwashed or living in an echo chamber because they point out the obvious flaws in your thinking.

The colonisers left your country but they never left your mind.



No, you have no argument so you resort to insults.

If you can't take criticism, you label it as offensive and play the victim card.

No wonder Muslim majority countries are unable to compete in this world. We are ruining only ourselves.

 

[Numerous]

If you can't take criticism, you label it as offensive and play the victim card.

No wonder Muslim majority countries are unable to compete in this world. We are ruining only ourselves.

Criticise me all you want. Swear at me. Whatever. I have little problem with that.

Criticise and attack Islam, then I have a big problem.

 

[Nein]

The trouble with the system devised by Allah is that it is implemented by morons. So unless he comes down himself and implements it himself, or sends another Prophet, things aren't going to change very much.
And please don't cast aspersions on my faith when it is patently obvious that Islam has been hijacked and distorted beyond recognition to suit the agendas of various groups. Islam has a long and inglorious tradition of labelling people who differ from the received wisdom as unbelievers ( Mansoor Hallaj and Allama Iqbal come to mind off the top of my head) in fact it is one of the main reasons that is Islam is in the mess that it is. Critical thought and renewal must be encouraged in any philosophy or it will wither on the vine but what you and people like you seemingly prefer is an echo chamber where your own biases and prejudices are confirmed rather than challenged, debated and refreshed. Islam will not flourish and progress until freedom of thought and expression is encouraged rather than shut down and silenced through fear and condemnation.

Muslim countries are in the state they are in due to missing out on industrialisation also giving up on war.

This allowed the Europeans and the West to advance.

Nothing to do with critical thought or useless philosophy. When you stop conquering and striving to be strong others will take your place.

Survival of the fittest as they or natural selection. Life is a test since we abandoned Allah, Allah in turn abandoned us. When your enemies were getting strong and advanced the various Muslim empires failed to pay attention due to ignorance, arrogance or pride since they believed they were more advanced until they were in for a big awakening.

 

[Lincoln]

Look at the way you speak when you talk about Allah "so unless He comes down himself and implements it himself...". Talk with respect if you are actually Muslim.

Critical thought does not equal attacking parts of Islam. Anyone who does do that, what else do you expect us to label them? Anyone who does that isn't one of us.

No people like me live far outside an echo chamber. I can easily say that I have a far open mind than the majority of secularists on this forum.

People like you will happily attack under Islam under the guise of the "critical thinking" but then you try to label others as being brainwashed or living in an echo chamber because they point out the obvious flaws in your thinking.

The colonisers left your country but they never left your mind.



No, you have no argument so you resort to insults. Typical secularist.

If I agreed with you, you would've been calling me a genius just for agreeing lol.

I really wouldn't. The reason I don't want to give you an answer is because you will cry about how insensitive it is to religion, and how I am not following God's book. In simpler words, a really long emotional condescending religious answer.

And a person who cannot respect the founding father of his country, then what stake he has to even talk about it.

Muslim countries are in the state they are in due to missing out on industrialisation also giving up on war.

This allowed the Europeans and the West to advance.

Nothing to do with critical thought or useless philosophy. When you stop conquering and striving to be strong others will take your place.

Ever thought why they are missing out on industrialization and modernization?

Criticise me all you want. Swear at me. Whatever. I have little problem with that.

Criticise and attack Islam, then I have a big problem.

Already playing religious card. The pure irony of your answer.

 

[Nein]

I really wouldn't. The reason I don't want to give you an answer is because you will cry about how insensitive it is to religion, and how I am not following God's book. In simpler words, a really long emotional condescending religious answer.

And a person who cannot respect the founding father of his country, then what stake he has to even talk about it.



Ever thought why they are missing out on industrialization and modernization?



Already playing religious card. The pure irony of your answer.

Due to capitalism and the protestant work ethic. Nothing to do with critical thought or philosophy.

It all boils down to money.