Enough is Enough

[rockstar08]

The same Kremlin once set up a Steel Mill too in Karachi and provided weapons to Pakistan Army , so what to make of that ? There's a concept of non alignment and locus of control . There are no friends or enemies in International politics , despite the past animosity , possibly one might act smart and look for long term benefits . The Soviet Union wasn't that powerful or had the intention/planned to invade Pakistan next when it was barely able to control Afghanistan , these are facts . The country on the other side of the Khyber Pass was going to be in the same state it was then , afterwards too . Time confirmed it later when the Afghans continued with the same ( Peshawar Accords ) and are still the same today . There was civil war then , there was civil war afterward and there's civil war today , point me the difference that Pakistan's intervention made except teaching the Reds a lesson and getting aid from the Yanks . I will tell you a secret , when the Soviet withdrew from Kabul's territory and the Americans had no interest left , they passed Pressler amendments and we were again " sanctioned " , yet we continued to develop the nuclear and missile technology later . Major breakthroughs were made well after it . If the embargoes couldn't stop us later , why would it have done it earlier ?

The War That Never Was . | Pakistan Defence

Read it again , history speaks .

sir jee if that the case , than americans do more than what soviet do for us , and from 60's to 90's the indo pak tension was its peek , and we cant be friends with the friend of our enemy , i think our gen and inteliigence officers are more than intelligent than you, they also think about everything , and they always do what is best for survival of Pakistan, they made long term decision but not short , pak us relationship is old as pakistan creation ,and if today usa was not or ally we wont have F-16s and other weapons on which you feel proud of , we choose right for that time , and toady usa backstab us doesnt make that all afghans are talibs , and bad ..... usa or russia is not our neighbor but the afghans are , so its best to support them to stabilize the region

 

[Secur]

i think our gen and inteliigence officers are more than intelligent than you, they also think about everything , and they always do what is best for survival of Pakistan, they made long term decision but not short

There you said it all . Nothing left for me . The logic being the " anticipation of all things " or " always rational "

 

[rockstar08]

There you said it all . Nothing left for me . The logic being the " anticipation of all things " or " always rational "

no yaar common you cant just put one sentence from my whole post and say this ....as a discussion or argument this is not the right way after all we are not going to get award for that ,
and yet again if i say , at that time no one would have think that taliban will turn against usa and pakistan ..that time our biggest enemy was india , and as i said in early post may be pakistani generals thought that if we support russian than we can become another afghanistan in future , who expect in 80's that pak and usa will become enemies ? if i tell you something , i once heard that " Army chied kiyani once said that American war is all about denuclearizing pakistan, the day we surrender our nuclear assets , this war will almost be over from Pakistani areas , " and as coas and ex Dg isi we have to give some respect to his statement

 

[AhsanAmin]

The same Kremlin once set up a Steel Mill too in Karachi and provided weapons to Pakistan Army , so what to make of that ?

Steel Mill was built with Soviet help because Pakistan was the single largest buyer of American steel at that time.

 

[rockstar08]

When you say how a certain entity will always make rational decisions and will be successful in execution and can forsee all things , the argument is pretty much over . I do not cherry pick .

Broaden your gaze , there's something else besides friends and enemies too , look for it . I am not saying that one can see the future , its not possible , but it doesn't excuse no one for responsibility of the decision . If you are saying that they couldn't see the dangers associated with fighting a war of the superpowers and didn't calculate the long term risks , it means that they lack the far sightedness , wisdom and vision . The same monsters we created back then are haunting us today . We fed the snake milk not remembering that it doesn't make it our friend or wouldn't stop him from biting us at the very first chance .

sir jee no one can and will do the exact calculation what will happen next , even USA failed many time , even NAZI army failed that and so as Stalin , they are one of the greatest armies of the world and have better spy network , that was time to choose one and we choose USA , our Army and Gen made some really hard decision in past or present , we can not blame them ... if you want to blame than blame the taliban sympathizers leaders like muwaar and IK , who give them save heavens in cities and madarsaas ...
and you cant even guaranty me if we support russia that time than these mijahid including russia and india will spare PAkistna ? can you ??
risking long term risks , no one can do so , and for your kind information afghan taliban and pakistan taliban are two different side of a mirror .. sounds strange but facts are facts .

 

[Armstrong]

I knew it this @Secur Kareemov was a KGB sleeper agent - Creating disinformation here !

 

[Secur]

no yaar common you cant just put one sentence from my whole post and say this ....as a discussion or argument this is not the right way after all we are not going to get award for that ,
and yet again if i say , at that time no one would have think that taliban will turn against usa and pakistan ..that time our biggest enemy was india , and as i said in early post may be pakistani generals thought that if we support russian than we can become another afghanistan in future , who expect in 80's that pak and usa will become enemies ? if i tell you something , i once heard that " Army chied kiyani once said that American war is all about denuclearizing pakistan, the day we surrender our nuclear assets , this war will almost be over from Pakistani areas , " and as coas and ex Dg isi we have to give some respect to his statement

When you say how a certain entity will always make rational and right decisions and will be successful in execution and can foresee all things , the argument is pretty much over . I do not cherry pick .

Broaden your gaze , there's something else besides friends and enemies too , look for it . I am not saying that one can see the future , its not possible , but it doesn't excuse no one for responsibility of the decision . Didn't Pakistanis know that Americans are no friends seeing how they had sanctioned us before ? Didn't we know the history of Afghanistan ? Didn't we know how the regime in Kabul was fast falling apart ? Didn't we know the Soviets were going to be bogged down there regardless of our intervention seeing the reality on ground and the mindset of the population ? If you are saying that they couldn't see the dangers associated with fighting a war of the superpowers and didn't calculate the long term risks , it means that they lack the far sightedness , wisdom and vision . The same monsters we created back then are haunting us today . We fed the snake milk not remembering that it doesn't make it our friend or wouldn't stop it from biting us at the very first chance .

I knew it this @Secur Kareemov was a KGB sleeper agent - Creating disinformation here !

Lol

sir jee no one can and will do the exact calculation what will happen next , even USA failed many time , even NAZI army failed that and so as Stalin , they are one of the greatest armies of the world and have better spy network , that was time to choose one and we choose USA , our Army and Gen made some really hard decision in past or present , we can not blame them ... if you want to blame than blame the taliban sympathizers leaders like muwaar and IK , who give them save heavens in cities and madarsaas ...
and you cant even guaranty me if we support russia that time than these mijahid including russia and india will spare PAkistna ? can you ??
risking long term risks , no one can do so , and for your kind information afghan taliban and pakistan taliban are two different side of a mirror .. sounds strange but facts are facts .

Alright , what if we had choosen to remain neutral or intervene little or not at all ? What would have happened ? Mate , the Afghan war radicalized the masses of this country , the cancer of extremism has its roots in that era . What was our obsession with waging global Jihad and getting our population involved and inviting all Muslims to fight USSR from our soil ? Why indoctrinate the Pakistanis with a militant and barbaric version of Islam ? Where's the long term planning ?

The fact is Afghan and Pakistani Taliban are the same with the same agenda and ideology , after all the Mullah Omar was doing same in Kabul , what Fazullah did in Swat . Have the Afghan Taliban ever disowned their Pakistani counterparts ? The TTP leaders regularly take refuge in Afghanistan , how many of them have been killed by the so called righteous Afghan Taliban ? Are they fighting or condemning TTP ? The sooner , we , as a nation stop to differentiate between religious terrorists and stop the distinction of good or bad Taliban , the more better it will be for our future .

 

[rockstar08]

When you say how a certain entity will always make rational decisions and will be successful in execution and can forsee all things , the argument is pretty much over . I do not cherry pick .

Broaden your gaze , there's something else besides friends and enemies too , look for it . I am not saying that one can see the future , its not possible , but it doesn't excuse no one for responsibility of the decision . Didn't Pakistanis know that Americans are no friends seeing how they had sanctioned us before ? Didn't we know the history of Afghanistan ? Didn't we know how the regime in Kabul was fast falling apart ? Didn't we know the Soviets were going to be bogged down there regardless of our intervention seeing the reality on ground and the mindset of the population ? If you are saying that they couldn't see the dangers associated with fighting a war of the superpowers and didn't calculate the long term risks , it means that they lack the far sightedness , wisdom and vision . The same monsters we created back then are haunting us today . We fed the snake milk not remembering that it doesn't make it our friend or wouldn't stop it from biting us at the very first chance .


Lol

your argument is based on nothing but misconception , nothing was force on us by some peoples , at the time of pakistan creation liaquat ali khan and our leader choose usa as our ally , and as your building you house on assumption so lets what if there was no 9/11 ? so there wont be any war on terror ? and so these lunatics were never turn against us ! make sense ?
and as a super power usa is doing same now which many power did in past , over estimating their capabilities , look at the usa today , weak in every aspect , WOT crush their economy and now their own peoples laugh on their govt and media, sir i can not blame some peoples for this WOT , you are watching only the tip of ice burg but a huge mountains of un solved question is under water , which they never want you to see , may be you can believe in fary tale stories that 20 arabs broke the security of USA and destroy twins .... we created mujahid back than who were fighting for their right , if i take my man and come and sit in your house what will you do ? allow me to sit with your mom and sis ? or you will fight against me ? ? afghans had right to fight russians and we help them because of our own interest not for afghans !!

 

[Informant]

Hot Russian Chicks Videos

hehe wrong thread?

 

[rockstar08]

When you say how a certain entity will always make rational decisions and will be successful in execution and can forsee all things , the argument is pretty much over . I do not cherry pick .

Broaden your gaze , there's something else besides friends and enemies too , look for it . I am not saying that one can see the future , its not possible , but it doesn't excuse no one for responsibility of the decision . Didn't Pakistanis know that Americans are no friends seeing how they had sanctioned us before ? Didn't we know the history of Afghanistan ? Didn't we know how the regime in Kabul was fast falling apart ? Didn't we know the Soviets were going to be bogged down there regardless of our intervention seeing the reality on ground and the mindset of the population ? If you are saying that they couldn't see the dangers associated with fighting a war of the superpowers and didn't calculate the long term risks , it means that they lack the far sightedness , wisdom and vision . The same monsters we created back then are haunting us today . We fed the snake milk not remembering that it doesn't make it our friend or wouldn't stop it from biting us at the very first chance .


Lol

so you are telling me that if pakistani taliban are going to afghanistan and afghan talib do nothing so what about usa ? ? what they are doing in afghanistan ?? what about their 3000 sat in orbit ? they cant see bunch of talibs are coming from pak border ? they can easily eliminate easily with drones ? or air strike ? man with your theory the world will become fishy , you are completely neglecting the indian side , back in 80's india and usa relation were not strong as indo russian are . and you can say that why choose chinese why not japan !hahahah like the you cant choose one .... with usa we become ally with nato , and i hope you know the nato means 30+ countries .... and you want us to take side of russian and become enemies of rest of the world , and sir jee afghan taliban never disowned but never owend TTP as well , and so Haqqani and many talibs fighting in Afghanistan are ally of Pakistan , they know pakistan is under pressure of usa and right now pakistan is paralyzed, but as soon as usa leave this afghanistan thing will go back to normal , and for ttp if our army and peoples once come on same stage that we have to eliminate them than there is no where they can run only to afghanistan , only with permission of their funder RAW and CIA , and dont forget in afghan war against USSR CIA is also active in afghanistan and they also had friends and contacts amongst talibans ,

Alright , what if we had choosen to remain neutral or intervene little or not at all ? What would have happened ? Mate , the Afghan war radicalized the masses of thia country , the cancer of extremism has its roots in that era . What was our obsession with waging global Jihad and getting our population involved and inviting all Muslims to fight USSR from our soil ? Why indoctrine the Pakistanis with a militant and barbaric version of Islam ? Where's the long term planning ?

The fact is Afghan and Pakistani Taliban are the same with the same agenda and ideology , after all the Mullah Omar was doing same in Kabul , what Fazullah did in Swat . Have the Afghan Taliban ever disowned their Pakistani counterparts ? The TTP leaders regularly take refuge in Afghanistan , how many of them have been killed by the so called righteous Afghan Taliban ? Are they fighting or condemning TTP ? The sooner , we , as a nation stop to differentiate between religious terrorists and stop the distinction of good or bad Taliban , the more better it will be for our future .

 

[Informant]

your argument is based on nothing but misconception , nothing was force on us by some peoples , at the time of pakistan creation liaquat ali khan and our leader choose usa as our ally , and as your building you house on assumption so lets what if there was no 9/11 ? so there wont be any war on terror ? and so these lunatics were never turn against us ! make sense ?
and as a super power usa is doing same now which many power did in past , over estimating their capabilities , look at the usa today , weak in every aspect , WOT crush their economy and now their own peoples laugh on their govt and media, sir i can not blame some peoples for this WOT , you are watching only the tip of ice burg but a huge mountains of un solved question is under water , which they never want you to see , may be you can believe in fary tale stories that 20 arabs broke the security of USA and destroy twins .... we created mujahid back than who were fighting for their right , if i take my man and come and sit in your house what will you do ? allow me to sit with your mom and sis ? or you will fight against me ? ? afghans had right to fight russians and we help them because of our own interest not for afghans !!

American economy weak? Are you living in 2008? Wuuuut! Homie its back on track and with a bang. Afghanis had USA come sit in their house because they HARBORED a TERRRIST ( Cunt Laden). You dont expect to hide a piece of shit after he pokes the bee hive. You protect him and get stung as a result. What was the point of 911, get assfucked by mighty America's dildo? Is this your justification for jihad? A million plus casualties in Muslim world in search for Jihad? 4000 Americans died as a result they wiped a million of yours. Not their fault, yours for thinking you can play with fire. So you say America was wrong, it wasnt. You come to my house kill my family member, i sure as hell will wipe out yours and shit in your house so that you never will be able to make a house.

Americans are very well aware of their rights, they dont care about you. They never did, never will. They live a comfortable life in their country which the whole world follows or wants to be like. That my dear is success, that is what we Pakistanis should strive for, unfortunately we are busy looting country. Both the Army and the civil govt.

Yes Afghan Jihad was our need of the moment we didnt go in for Islam, we went in for our interest. These Afghanis were against us from day 1. These assholes will never stand on their feet instead support TTP covertly. What has Aghanis done to TTP to dent them seriously? Even with our unrelenting support for their leadership? These assholes are subhumans, they are a disgrace to Islam and humanity ( both the Afghans and TTP ).

@Armstrong watup playa?

 

[Secur]

your argument is based on nothing but misconception , nothing was force on us by some peoples , at the time of pakistan creation liaquat ali khan and our leader choose usa as our ally , and as your building you house on assumption so lets what if there was no 9/11 ? so there wont be any war on terror ? and so these lunatics were never turn against us ! make sense ?
and as a super power usa is doing same now which many power did in past , over estimating their capabilities , look at the usa today , weak in every aspect , WOT crush their economy and now their own peoples laugh on their govt and media, sir i can not blame some peoples for this WOT , you are watching only the tip of ice burg but a huge mountains of un solved question is under water , which they never want you to see , may be you can believe in fary tale stories that 20 arabs broke the security of USA and destroy twins .... we created mujahid back than who were fighting for their right , if i take my man and come and sit in your house what will you do ? allow me to sit with your mom and sis ? or you will fight against me ? ? afghans had right to fight russians and we help them because of our own interest not for afghans !!

@rockstar08 No , there's no misconception about the wrong decisions of our leaders , putting all eggs in one basket always . What is difficult in understanding the concept of neutrality and that one doesn't always has to take sides ? As for taking part in War on Terror , unlike Afghan Jihad , we had no choice but to answer Washington's call . Because we had to save out country from being bombed back to stone age by angry Yanks . I am all for defending the country's interests but it should be above our blind love for Ummah and please leave the conspiracy theories , they are boring , whatever nine eleven was , the fact is it did happen . We seem to care too much for the Muslim brothers who do not reciprocate our help and at times , have even harmed us . The same pious Mujahids have gone haywire today and wrecking havoc in the country , enjoy it .

 

[rockstar08]

American economy weak? Are you living in 2008? Wuuuut! Homie its back on track and with a bang. Afghanis had USA come sit in their house because they HARBORED a TERRRIST ( Cunt Laden). You dont expect to hide a piece of shit after he pokes the bee hive. You protect him and get stung as a result. What was the point of 911, get assfucked by mighty America's dildo? Is this your justification for jihad? A million plus casualties in Muslim world in search for Jihad? 4000 Americans died as a result they wiped a million of yours. Not their fault, yours for thinking you can play with fire. So you say America was wrong, it wasnt. You come to my house kill my family member, i sure as hell will wipe out yours and shit in your house so that you never will be able to make a house.

Americans are very well aware of their rights, they dont care about you. They never did, never will. They live a comfortable life in their country which the whole world follows or wants to be like. That my dear is success, that is what we Pakistanis should strive for, unfortunately we are busy looting country. Both the Army and the civil govt.

Yes Afghan Jihad was our need of the moment we didnt go in for Islam, we went in for our interest. These Afghanis were against us from day 1. These assholes will never stand on their feet instead support TTP covertly. What has Aghanis done to TTP to dent them seriously? Even with our unrelenting support for their leadership? These assholes are subhumans, they are a disgrace to Islam and humanity ( both the Afghans and TTP ).

@Armstrong watup playa?

hahah here come another blind .... sir go and try something called google for your reserach and than tell me how usa economy is like ,,, and sir i dont believe that they killed OBL and throw his body in sea without any prove , if you have prove that al qaeda do 9/11 than prove it , only some video from al jazera is not enough , experts know how to edit and create such videos ..

 

[Armstrong]

American economy weak? Are you living in 2008? Wuuuut! Homie its back on track and with a bang. Afghanis had USA come sit in their house because they HARBORED a TERRRIST ( Cunt Laden). You dont expect to hide a piece of shit after he pokes the bee hive. You protect him and get stung as a result. What was the point of 911, get assfucked by mighty America's dildo? Is this your justification for jihad? A million plus casualties in Muslim world in search for Jihad? 4000 Americans died as a result they wiped a million of yours. Not their fault, yours for thinking you can play with fire. So you say America was wrong, it wasnt. You come to my house kill my family member, i sure as hell will wipe out yours and shit in your house so that you never will be able to make a house.

Americans are very well aware of their rights, they dont care about you. They never did, never will. They live a comfortable life in their country which the whole world follows or wants to be like. That my dear is success, that is what we Pakistanis should strive for, unfortunately we are busy looting country. Both the Army and the civil govt.

Yes Afghan Jihad was our need of the moment we didnt go in for Islam, we went in for our interest. These Afghanis were against us from day 1. These assholes will never stand on their feet instead support TTP covertly. What has Aghanis done to TTP to dent them seriously? Even with our unrelenting support for their leadership? These assholes are subhumans, they are a disgrace to Islam and humanity ( both the Afghans and TTP ).

@Armstrong watup playa?

I'm good - You ?

 

[rockstar08]

@rockstar08 No , there's no misconception about the wrong decisions of our leaders , putting all eggs in one basket always . What is difficult in understanding the concept of neutrality and that one doesn't always has to take sides ? As for taking part in War on Terror , unlike Afghan Jihad , we had no choice but to answer Washington's call . Because we had to save out country from being bombed back to stone age by angry Yanks . I am all for defending the country's interests but it should be above our blind love for Ummah and please leave the conspiracy theories , they are boring , whatever nine eleven was , the fact is it did happen . We seem to care too much for the Muslim brothers who do not reciprocate our help and at times , have even harmed us . The same pious Mujahids have gone haywire today and wrecking havoc in the country , enjoy it .

sir i dont have love for afghans and ummah , and if you leave many fact on the name of consipiracy theory than there is no such hard prove on 9/11 and OBL death , and so i can show you many un solved questions , and interviews of those peoples who were there , jihad doesnt war , it means struggle ...... i know this very well , plus i understand what kind of hard situations my country is gone through , we always have to decide between bad and worse , the political and regional interest change from last few decades , even usa know there are some saudi involed in 9/11 they are still there ally and giving them best weapons . you can not justify capturing any other country and to take revenge of 3000 peoples you can not killed more than 3 million peoples , and for 9/11 i know that happen but a million dollar question is who did it and who benefit the most from it ??